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The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 3:48:38 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
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His whole voting record is here:
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=296

-----

Ron Paul on race:

Paul reported on gang crime in Los Angeles and wrote, "If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

Citing statistics from a 1992 study produced by the National Center on Incarceration and Alternatives, a criminal justice think tank based in Virginia, Paul concluded in his column: "Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/05/ron-pauls.html

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Ron Paul opposes reproductive rights and the right to choose for oneself:

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/election-2008/paul/issues

H. R. 1094
To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.01094:

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Ron Paul is in bed with the oil industry (duh! Texan) and votes against most environmental legislation. During the 109th Congress he voted to voted allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, to shield oil companies from MTBE contamination lawsuits, against increasing gas mileage standards, to allow new offshore drilling, and to stop making oil companies pay royalties to the government for drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=122&chamber=H&congress=1091
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=129&chamber=H&congress=1091
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=121&chamber=H&congress=1091
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=192&chamber=H&congress=1091
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=128&chamber=H&congress=1091

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Ron Paul supports the "Defense of Marriage Act" and co-sponsored the "Marriage Protection Act."

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2004/cr093004.htm
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR03313:@@@P

More generally, Paul opposes gay rights in all kinds of subtle ways. It's interesting to note how the supposed strict constitutionalist is opposed to extending the equal protections enjoyed by the great many of us to certain minority groups.

Ron Paul recently remarked: "How dare the Clinton Administration talk about sexual deviance! It's officials could have had their own float in the Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Parade."

http://groups.google.com/group/info.firearms.politics/msg/33f84434fbae4aa7?hl=en&

These are personal views attempting to become enshrined in legislation instead of following the strict letter of the Constitution. Sure, many politicians do likewise - it's just that "Dr. No" supposedly swings another way. But he doesn't, does he? Same, same, same...

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Ron Paul wants to force his religious views on you - everything from keeping "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to co-sponsoring the school prayer amendment to keeping the Ten Commandments on a courthouse lawn.

http://www.house.gov/paul/press/press2002/pr062702.htm
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:HJ00078:@@@L&summ2=m&
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=257&chamber=H&congress=1091
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.4379:

-----

Worker rights:

Opposed legislation concerning ergonomics in the workplace
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=33&chamber=H&congress=1071

Opposed improved safety for miners:
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=234&chamber=H&congress=1092

Opposes unions generally:
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst98/tst072798.htm

Right, because the free market will fix all of these things by itself....not.

-----

He opposes the war and the troops that fight it:
http://www.iava.org/temp-f-team

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Opposes campaign finance reforms:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=20

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His preposterous take on healthcare:
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst050304.htm

Right, because when something catastrophic happens you want to just sell your house and pay out of pocket. Yeah, those insurers would never try to find some loophole out of paying for your health problems, would they? That profit motive doesn't mean anything.

-----

Ron Paul voted to make class-action lawsuits harder:
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=38&chamber=H&congress=1091

And he supports tort reform.

-----

He voted to make it harder for inidividuals to file bankruptcy:
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=108&chamber=H&congress=1091

Of course, the usual corporate steamrolling can just proceed as usual. Just another way in which Ron Paul is assuring that corporations have greater rights and liberties than do the people that allow them to exist in the first place.

-----

Like most Libertarians, Ron Paul supports the privatization of almost everything. Is that working for our prison system? How about the Blackwater version of our military? Maybe there are some things that the government can do and should do for itself...

And it just goes on and on this way...

For every good thing I have heard about Ron Paul, there is something else I find even more despicable. I agree with him on some single issues (if I focus on them in isolation), but once I examine his overall thinking and how each issue fits for him into his world view I find myself at ideological loggerheads with Ron Paul. The guy is an all around jackass and I am going to have to give him a pass for these and dozens of other reasons.

Do your homework. Do not be fooled by the people that want to make this guy into some kind of saint. He is hardly that. I doubt that most people reading this are in ideological harmony with this fruitcake.

Dr. No?

Just say no.
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 4:13:13 AM   
xoxi


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LOL

As a pro-life "racist" who believes that the majority of inner city gang members are minorities (gasp), thinks it SHOULD be harder to file for bankruptcy, believes homosexuality is unnatural, and believes life begins at conception, I would like to thank you for summarizing some of the major issues that show why I support Ron Paul 

I don't agree with his stance on every single issue but until my Master runs for President of the US (kinda hard since he's an Aussie) I probably never will agree with ANY candidate's entire platform.

Ron Paul seems like an excellent choice for President. Go him!

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 4:28:17 AM   
camille65


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Heh and your answer/stance on RP is a wonderful example of why I never even considered him.

_____________________________


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(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 4:32:45 AM   
LotusSong


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I think George Carlin should debate with him, maybe he'll wake up.

Carlin on Abortion

(thanks for posting this)

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I'm not inflatable.


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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 4:34:58 AM   
xoxi


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I really doubt he'll carry the republican nomination though...I wouldn't vote for Giuliani and I wouldn't vote for Romney either.  I might vote for Hillary even though I hate the woman and disagree with her on a lot of issues simply because of her husband's influence.  Then again that might backfire...she is not him and she might not do with those connections what he did.

I really don't think there are any great candidates running.  It seems like a slew of mediocrity - Ron Paul is this year what Howard Dean was a few years ago - a great way to get people all energized for nothing.

(in reply to camille65)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 6:44:17 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi
As a pro-life "racist" who believes that the majority of inner city gang members are minorities (gasp), thinks it SHOULD be harder to file for bankruptcy, believes homosexuality is unnatural, and believes life begins at conception, I would like to thank you for summarizing some of the major issues that show why I support Ron Paul 


Wow...! You make me so sad. For you and because of people like you. While I support your right to be intolerant, I don't think that particular characteristic makes you a good person. Intolerance makes you part of an alarming problem.

BTW, speaking mainly to the money side of things - you do realize that almost the whole point of incorporating a business is limited liability for debt, right? That means you are defending the rights of corporations over and against those of natural persons. Seriously, how does that make sense? How is that fair? How is that justice?

Real justice begins with socio-economic justice, in my view.

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 7:16:09 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
BTW, speaking mainly to the money side of things - you do realize that almost the whole point of incorporating a business is limited liability for debt, right? That means you are defending the rights of corporations over and against those of natural persons. Seriously, how does that make sense? How is that fair? How is that justice?

Real justice begins with socio-economic justice, in my view.



So, if any natural person could form a corporation then we might all finally be equal. Right?

Seriously, when trial lawyers like John Edwards can become fabulously wealthy by destroying someone with a single lawsuit, destroy what it took lifetimes, generations to build up, then THAT is what isn't fair. THAT is what is unequal - the power and destruction wielded by trial lawyers because someone asked for and was served hot coffee, or because someone became a doctor and did their best to help someone with a difficult pregnancy

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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 7:24:58 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
I think George Carlin should debate with him, maybe he'll wake up.
Carlin on Abortion


Yeah, Carlin's great. He used to visit my high school counselor in the middle of the day. Sometimes you'd get an impromptu performance from the guy just because you were sitting next to him in the office. People would start to gather because he really is funny even just conversationally.

I think I visited him with a mutual acquaintance once at his home in the Malibu Lakes area of CA. He was all into making homemade yogurt and explained the process to me in detail and how the top of the refrigerator was a good place to culture the yogurt.

I think most of my happenstance meetings with Carlin had to do with scoring coke, although it was unknown to me at the time. I was just there for the good company.

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 7:42:26 AM   
bipolarber


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Churro,

Thanks for the links, and for reminding me about that site. It's such a great resource when you want the real info, and not the "spin."

For those of you interested in what Huckabee's record as governor is like, you might try looking up the Arkansas Weekly online, and cruise back through some of the Op/ed peices from the last few weeks. Frankly, most of us in AR are worried as hell that his campaign is gaining traction... it'll be "more of the same" in the U.S. if he does get in.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 7:59:35 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I really doubt he'll carry the republican nomination though...I wouldn't vote for Giuliani and I wouldn't vote for Romney either.  I might vote for Hillary even though I hate the woman and disagree with her on a lot of issues simply because of her husband's influence.  Then again that might backfire...she is not him and she might not do with those connections what he did.

I really don't think there are any great candidates running.  It seems like a slew of mediocrity - Ron Paul is this year what Howard Dean was a few years ago - a great way to get people all energized for nothing.



I have not researched this but I thought all states have the ability to write someone in?   Mine does.

It does not matter if he is nominated or not, all you need to do is find the line that says write in and put physically write his name on the dotted line.  

Vote your conscience not the choices provided.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 8:10:19 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
That means you are defending the rights of corporations over and against those of natural persons. Seriously, how does that make sense? How is that fair? How is that justice?

Real justice begins with socio-economic justice, in my view.



Corporations have NO constitutional "rights", however the SC in their infinite wisdom chose to "redefine" the interpretation of the constitution and gave them the same rights as a "natural person" changing the balance of power.

Previously corporations only had privleges and charters with well defined sunsets for a very good reason, so that this country would NOT turn into a corporatocracy as it has.

So which one of YOUR candidates understands these issues and are willing to try and do something about it?





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:07:56 AM   
subfever


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quote:

Opposes campaign finance reforms:


The Washington political scandals dominating the news in recent weeks may be disheartening, but they cannot be considered surprising.  We live in a time when the U.S. government is the largest and most powerful state in the history of the world.  Today's federal government consists of fifteen huge departments, hundreds of agencies, thousands of programs, and millions of employees.   It spends 2.4 trillion dollars in a single year.  The possibilities for corruption in such an immense and unaccountable institution are endless.
 


Americans understandably expect ethical conduct from their elected officials in Washington.   But the whole system is so out of control that it's simply unrealistic to place faith in each and every government official in a position to sell influence. 


The larger the federal government becomes, the more it controls who wins and who loses in our society.   The temptation for lobbyists to buy votes-- and the temptation for politicians to sell them-- is enormous.  Indicting one crop of politicians and bringing in another is only a temporary solution.   The only effective way to address corruption is to change the system itself, by radically downsizing the power of the federal government in the first place.   Take away the politicians' power and you take away the very currency of corruption.
 


Undoubtedly the recent revelations will ignite new calls for campaign finance reform.   However, we must recognize that that campaign finance laws place restrictions only on individuals, not politicians. Politicians will continue to tax and spend, meaning they will continue to punish some productive Americans while rewarding others with federal largesse. The same vested special interests will not go away, and the same influence peddling will happen every day on Capitol Hill.
 


The reason is very simple: when the federal government redistributes trillions of dollars from some Americans to others, countless special interests inevitably will fight for the money. The rise in corruption in Washington simply mirrors the rise in federal spending.


The fundamental problem is not with campaigns or politicians primarily, but rather with popular support for the steady shift from a relatively limited, constitutional federal government to the huge leviathan of today.
  We need to get money out of government. Only then will money not be important in politics.  


It's time to reconsider exactly what we want the federal government to be in our society.  So long as it remains the largest and most powerful institution in the nation, it will remain endlessly susceptible to corruption.


Ron Paul, January 9th, 2007


< Message edited by subfever -- 11/17/2007 10:38:26 AM >

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:09:40 AM   
Real0ne


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SMC:

If I remember correctly health care is in your top 3 that needs to be dealt with.

My question to you is who are "you" recommending and for what reason?

Hillary is the big one for health care that I am aware of?



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/17/2007 10:10:55 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:19:54 AM   
subfever


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quote:

Right, because when something catastrophic happens you want to just sell your house and pay out of pocket. Yeah, those insurers would never try to find some loophole out of paying for your health problems, would they? That profit motive doesn't mean anything.


Last week the congressional Joint Economic committee on which I serve held a hearing featuring two courageous medical doctors.  I had the pleasure of meeting with one of the witnesses, Dr. Robert Berry, who opened a low-cost health clinic in rural Tennessee.  His clinic does not accept insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid, which allows Dr. Berry to treat patients without interference from third-party government bureaucrats or HMO administrators.  In other words, Dr. Berry practices medicine as most doctors did 40 years ago, when patients paid cash for ordinary services and had inexpensive catastrophic insurance for serious injuries or illnesses.  As a result, Dr. Berry and his patients decide for themselves what treatment is appropriate.

Freed from HMO and government bureaucracy, Dr. Berry can focus on medicine rather than billing.  Operating on a cash basis lowers his overhead considerably, allowing him to charge much lower prices than other doctors.  He often charges just $35 for routine maladies, which is not much more than one’s insurance co-pay in other offices.  His affordable prices enable low-income patients to see him before minor problems become serious, and unlike most doctors, Dr. Berry sees patients the same day on a walk-in basis.  Yet beyond his low prices and quick appointments, Dr. Berry provides patients with excellent medical care.

While many liberals talk endlessly about medical care for the poor, Dr. Berry actually helps uninsured people every day.  His patients are largely low-income working people, who cannot afford health insurance but don’t necessarily qualify for state assistance.  Some of his uninsured patients have been forced to visit hospital emergency rooms for non-emergency treatment because no doctor would see them.  Others disliked the long waits and inferior treatment they endured at government clinics.  For many of his patients, Dr. Berry’s clinic has been a godsend.

Dr. Berry’s experience illustrates the benefits of eliminating the middleman in health care.  For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world.  Not coincidentally, there was far less government involvement in medicine during this time.  America had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients enjoyed high quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of private charities provided health services for the poor. Doctors focused on treating patients, without the red tape and threat of lawsuits that plague the profession today. Most Americans paid cash for basic services, and had insurance only for major illnesses and accidents. This meant both doctors and patients had an incentive to keep costs down, as the patient was directly responsible for payment, rather than an HMO or government program.

We should remember that HMOs did not arise because of free-market demand, but rather because of government mandates.  The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses- but not individuals- to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums.  The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

While many in Congress are happy to criticize HMOs today, the public never hears how the present system was imposed upon the American people by federal law. In fact, one very prominent Senator now attacking HMOs is on record in the 1970s lauding them.  As usual, government intervention in the private market failed to deliver the promised benefits and caused unintended consequences, but Congress never blames itself for the problems created by bad laws.  Instead, we are told more government- in the form of “universal coverage”- is the answer.


We can hardly expect more government to cure our current health care woes. As with all goods and services, medical care is best delivered by the free market, with competition and financial incentives keeping costs down. When patients spend their own money for health care, they have a direct incentive to negotiate lower costs with their doctor. When government controls health care, all cost incentives are lost.  Dr. Berry and others like him may one day be seen as consumer heroes who challenged the third-party health care system and resisted the trend toward socialized medicine in America.

Ron Paul


< Message edited by subfever -- 11/17/2007 10:26:50 AM >

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:20:41 AM   
LotusSong


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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

LOL

As a pro-life "racist" who believes that the majority of inner city gang members are minorities (gasp), thinks it SHOULD be harder to file for bankruptcy, believes homosexuality is unnatural, and believes life begins at conception, I would like to thank you for summarizing some of the major issues that show why I support Ron Paul 

I don't agree with his stance on every single issue but until my Master runs for President of the US (kinda hard since he's an Aussie) I probably never will agree with ANY candidate's entire platform.

Ron Paul seems like an excellent choice for President. Go him!



I'll just take this comment as one due to extreme youth and lack of life experience.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:27:24 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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And all this time I thought that all the inner city gangs were caucaision. You know, like the "Jets" and the "Sharks."
You mean I'm wrong?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:33:33 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

LOL

As a pro-life "racist" who believes that the majority of inner city gang members are minorities (gasp), thinks it SHOULD be harder to file for bankruptcy, believes homosexuality is unnatural, and believes life begins at conception, I would like to thank you for summarizing some of the major issues that show why I support Ron Paul 

I don't agree with his stance on every single issue but until my Master runs for President of the US (kinda hard since he's an Aussie) I probably never will agree with ANY candidate's entire platform.

Ron Paul seems like an excellent choice for President. Go him!



I'll just take this comment as one due to extreme youth and lack of life experience.


Remember when the world was so black and white?

It always amazes me when people that want to live contrary to the dictates of what society finds acceptable (like being a slave) turn around and bash gay people... you know this speech?


quote:



They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:34:55 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Ron Paul wants to force his religious views on you - everything from keeping "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to co-sponsoring the school prayer amendment to keeping the Ten Commandments on a courthouse lawn.






Washington, DC- Congressman Ron Paul today condemned a federal appeals court ruling that the Pledge of Allegiance cannot be recited in schools because it contains the phrase "one nation under God."


"The judges who made this unfortunate ruling simply do not understand the First amendment," Paul stated. "It does not bar religious expression in public settings or anywhere else. In fact, it expressly prohibits federal interference in the free expression of religion. Far from mandating strict secularism in schools, it instead bars the federal government from prohibiting the Pledge of Allegiance, school prayer, or any other religious expression. The politicians and judges pushing the removal of religion from public life are violating the First amendment, not upholding it."

"The tired assertion of a separation of church and state has no historical or constitutional basis," Paul continued. "Neither the language of the Constitution itself nor the legislative history reveals any mention of such separation. In fact, the authors of the First amendment- Fisher Ames and Elbridge Gerry- and the rest of the founders routinely referred to "Almighty God" in our founding documents. It is only in the last 50 years that the federal courts have perverted the meaning of the amendment and sought to unlawfully restrict religious expression. We cannot continue to permit our Constitution and our rich religious institutions to be degraded by profound misinterpretations of the Bill of Rights."

Paul previously introduced "The First Amendment Restoration Act" to reassert true First amendment religious freedoms and end the kind of judicial overreach exhibited today. The bill becomes especially timely now, as it clarifies that federal courts have no jurisdiction whatsoever over matters of religious freedom. It also restores real religious freedom by making it clear that the federal government cannot forbid mention of religion, the Ten Commandments, or reference to God in both public and private life.




< Message edited by subfever -- 11/17/2007 10:45:27 AM >

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:48:29 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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And, according to the Founding Fathers, "our rights come from God not from government."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/17/2007 10:56:23 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

And, according to the Founding Fathers, "our rights come from God not from government."


I think the main point Paul is making is to get the government out of our lives, not further into it.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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