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RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 12:23:18 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
I have never seen anyone cherry-pick their "facts" or quotes or use as many weasel words as yourself. I have understood that you teach law or are a lawyer or whatever


psst...that is what attorneys do.  If his position was the other side, he would argue different facts.


Yes, I understand that all too well. My point is absolutely that he comes into these threads playing the devil's advocate for the state while pretending some kind of impartiality - all while performing his lawyer's tricks and complaining endlessly whenever anyone else in the conversation does the same things.

What Alumbrado does is try to become the authority in the conversation. He has a variety of signifiers he uses in attempting this conversation control, various claims he makes about himself...

He's no different than a peacock displaying his feathers - except that he seems oblivious to the fact that he is in a room with other creatures possessed of equally beautiful or even more splendid plumage.


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 12:29:48 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		For the state? Because  I called you on some factual errors you made by over-generalizing about subjects on which your opinions are based on TV shows?

First the racial ad homs, and now this?  If you had any clue as to how out of touch with reality that is, you wouldn't be in such a hurry to portray yourself in this manner.

Come back when you have some facts... about anything.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 11/29/2007 12:30:28 PM >

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 12:38:00 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think he's for the state at all.  I've been on the opposite end of this argument with him before.  Yes, it's frustrating if you expect to change his mind.  However, the nature of the beast is such that it's really unlikely you are going to change his mind.  Stop trying. 

Other than attempting to apply one state's law to all states, he's rarely wrong about the law and gives citations to the law that you can verify.  Whether you like it or not, he is making valid arguments that support his opinion.  But it still just is his opinion.  The fact that you don't agree doesn't make his points any less valid.  His position in life doesn't make his opinions any more valid.  You are both free to interpret the facts the way you chose.

Keep in mind that the law in it's application is also at times subjective.  Juries interpret facts also.  What one jury would say about this video and another could be two very different things.  Neither are wrong and neither of you are either.   

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 12:44:46 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

However, the nature of the beast...


Finally , someone who understands me...

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 12:47:49 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
First the racial ad homs, and now this?  If you had any clue as to how out of touch with reality that is...


As out of touch with reality as someone that can't show me the "racial ad homs" to which he refers?



What can you be talking about...

BTW, what factual errors? At best, you have managed to point up some differences in opinion as to what our rights are and what various guidelines suggest they are. Even a Supreme Court decision is only what they decided the last time the issue came up - subject to change should a new case arise.

Again, you are not the final authority here, Alumbrado.

Get over yourself...

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 12:58:28 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

However, the nature of the beast...


Finally , someone who understands me...


Don't be too overconfident.  Your aggression seems to defeat you more often than not.  However, I am guilty of the same thing at times as is Sugar.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:02:38 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		There is a word for people who aggressively rush toward a problem and stick their noses in, while everyone else is going the other way... I'll bet you even know what that word is, don't you?


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:03:23 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		cops

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:09:52 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		Firefighters. 

~stef


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:17:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The idiots that get killed in godzilla movies.   


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:18:13 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

There is a word for people who aggressively rush toward a problem and stick their noses in, while everyone else is going the other way... I'll bet you even know what that word is, don't you?




Can one actually "stick their nose in" in a public forum? 

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:19:17 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The idiots that get killed in godzilla movies.   



LOL...yeah you have to wonder about that...gigantic lizard thing coming at you...you running towards it....you dying...suprised?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:26:34 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		These folks I would agree uncontionally are someone that should be tazered, no mitigation whatsoever.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 1:31:01 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

These folks I would agree uncontionally are someone that should be tazered, no mitigation whatsoever.

Ron


ROFL.  Well they're obviously going to die to Godzilla anyway...so....

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 2:33:46 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I wonder what our world would be like without them?...They are all lousy bully losers...until you need them.

Butch:
The sad part is that they are not obligated by law to protect you.
The only people that they are required by law to protect are those in jail and those who are in mental institutions against their will.
thompson

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 3:23:42 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Asked and answered 'counselor'.

They are weasel words to you because you won't admit to the simple realities of the matter..

The police have the right to obtain compliance (just as they have the right to search, and to obtain ID).

Within that 'right' are limitations, a standard of 'reasonableness', legal definitions and precedent, and case by case totality of the circumstances.


You keep using the work "RIGHT", which is incorrect. What you are referring to are PRIVILEGES, which are duly delegated and controlled.

HINT: "RIGHTS" come from Our Creator, and therefore are inalienable. "PRIVILEGES" come from legislation. There is not a SINGLE POLICE POWER which is not EXPLICITLY DELEGATED.

Now, if you don't know the difference between RIGHTS and PRIVILEGES, how can anyone really take anything you say seriously.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 3:30:51 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Tappity tappity tappity tappity... If you want to play semantics, it is inalienable rights which come from some Creator.


OK, the police have been told by the courts that they have permission to do things differently than the way you claim they must do them.
Explain how the courts have it all wrong in the cases I cited, and your unsupported opinions are more correct than legal rulings.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 3:43:39 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Tappity tappity tappity tappity... If you want to play semantics, it is inalienable rights which come from some Creator.


OK, the police have been told by the courts that they have permission to do things differently than the way you claim they must do them.
Explain how the courts have it all wrong in the cases I cited, and your unsupported opinions are more correct than legal rulings.



All Rights are INALIENABLE. PRIVILEGES may be granted and revoked.

Are you suggesting that since *some* law has been overturned, that the Police are free to do whatever they wish, regardless of State Law?

Given your VERY, VERY LIBERAL interpretation of Utah 77-7-6, that wouldn't surprise me.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 5:59:23 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I wonder what our world would be like without them?...They are all lousy bully losers...until you need them.

Butch:
The sad part is that they are not obligated by law to protect you.
The only people that they are required by law to protect are those in jail and those who are in mental institutions against their will.
thompson


They had better in my town... there are two City tax referendums coming up. One for the police and fire retirement fund and another for wage increases. They’ll be good boys and girls…at least until after the vote.

Butch

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... - 11/29/2007 10:42:28 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		All Rights are INALIENABLE. PRIVILEGES may be granted and revoked.


Wierd thing though, you can be put in jail (liberty), prevented from doing certain things(pursuit of happiness), and even have your life (life)ended by the Legal system, even from day one of the USA.  So the founders certainly intended these rights to be revokable by the state, with cause and due process.  Even the INALIENABLE ones.  Just another illustration of the "Fantasy Constitution" adhered to by some posters.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 140
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