RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous?

RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (Full Version)

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Zensee -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 4:02:40 PM)
Seems to me there is a double standard here. Most of the people against the melting pot and multiculturalism also seem to be for less government, more state's rights and personal liberty. Yet they want new citizens to homogenize completely with the resident population. To become real Americans. This ignores several things. Successive waves of immigrants have always gone through a period of being the troublemakers and undesirables before being accepted. Adding new ingredients to the pot changes the contents. Who decides how much of what kind of heat (regulation, legislation, education etc. etc...) is needed to accomplish the melting and who has the recipe for the perfect American? Sounds like a job for legislated thought and for regulating all aspects of one's conduct - but then that sounds like the sort of crimes against liberty only godless socialists and Democrats can support. What's a compassionate conservative to do? Z.

NorthernGent -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 4:05:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Same problem with the link sorry - it cant seem to download. Multicultural is fine, as long as the multitude of cultures are linked by a common identity and common values. It only becomes a problem when, as in the UK, the idea is promoted that one's own culture and an identity and values specific to it, are more important than the common identity and values. And it becomes a problem, because we are sharing a geographic location and have to get along as a single society, living according to common values (laws et al) and participating in both contributing to and deriving benefit from that single society - and if we promote the idea that some may be exempted from their responsibilites to the whole by way of specific differences of culture, then we no longer have a society or nation. E We do have common values: work and family. We're not all cut from the same religious cloth, but it doesn't mean we don't share a common identity.

DMFParadox -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 4:35:15 PM)
Much as I'm a proponent of open borders, it's not enough to have 'family and hard work' as shared values. There also has to be a commitment to the concept of a land with streets paved with gold... both from the immigrants and the natives. You laugh, but I'm serious. If everybody believes that America should be great, that the very idea of being an American can make you a better person and give you opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise have.... and if there's a sense of outrage and "I MUST DO SOMETHING, WE ALL MUST' when that's not true--the opposite of apathy--that's when it works. If that feeling is there, though, then 'multiculturalism' goes from 'my culture is better than yours' to 'America rocks, and I want to make it even better.' A proud humility. I run into this a lot--often, it's the IMMIGRANTS telling the natives what they don't realize they have. We've got a Cuban on the boat who was actually defensive in telling me that America was awesome... as if I'd kick him for saying it... until I showed that I agreed 100%. The immigrants these days are running into the kind of static that causes that reaction... is it any wonder that some of them are starting to agree with the negativity? Zensee: You can count me for one that wants both minimalist government and multiculturalism. I've got nothing against a properly applied double standard, but that ain't one I consider proper. D

hands0n0knees -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 4:43:36 PM)
Cultural relativists are philosophically sound, so long as they appreciate their 'discovery' as a moment of private irony. The public sphere does not operate on a different discourse, but it must yield to pragmatism and get it as right as possible, even if it's still wrong. That aphoristic journey through fifty years of post-modernism withstanding, it seems to me that a consciously flawed attempt at institutional democracy with the notion of true democracy as 'still to come' is the healthiest form of government, and is thus a universal public ideal. Trivial identities involving clothing, food, skin colour, music, etc. aside, anyone who does not subscribe to the democracy still to come has no place within it. I don't see any conflict between liberalism and the controlling of size and nature of the population. It is of course hypothetical, but it goes without saying that the introduction of 10M Arab Muslims to any Western European democracy would change its character significantly. The process of democracy needs continuity and to be guarded by rough violence outside our borders. We liberals shouldn't be so squeamish about it.

pinksugarsub -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 4:52:04 PM)
Read this whole thread and decided that lables like "right-wing" and "liberal" have lost all meaning. Wonder if that's a good thing or not? pinksugarsub

hands0n0knees -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 4:56:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub Read this whole thread and decided that lables like "right-wing" and "liberal" have lost all meaning. Wonder if that's a good thing or not? pinksugarsub Well, I think it happened sometime before this thread, but, either way, it's an irrelevant thing. Those dead metaphors should have stayed at that fateful meeting hall where they belong.

kdsub -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 6:15:41 PM)
Oh I certainly agree it is not perfect seeksfemslave...I just think the advantages of new cultures far outweighs the problems. I’ve always thought one of the reasons America reached such strengths …both physically and mentally was its immigrate population. Most everyone came here from somewhere else…and in a relative short period of time. Slaves were picked for their size and strength so they could survive the passage and still draw a good return. Those that survived and thrived under the harsh treatment of slavery were also superior mentally. The African American population is now a vital and vibrant part of America…we would not be America without them. Those that came here as free people whether to escape persecution or for new opportunities were also a special breed. The type person to pack up their families and belongings…move thousands of miles into the unknown were strong, brave, and bold compared to those that stayed behind. This holds true even today… I think the UK will find strength in immigration as well. You are a strong nation with a long respected tradition that will eventually overcome and absorb into your fabric of life your new wave of immigrants. BUT...like America...not without problems. Butch

popeye1250 -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 6:39:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub Read this whole thread and decided that lables like "right-wing" and "liberal" have lost all meaning. Wonder if that's a good thing or not? pinksugarsub Pink, I was thinking that too! If you take the left wing wackos and the right wing wackos what are we talking, between 5 and 10% of the population? I know that when I'm "Jones-in'" for some "multi-culturalism" on a thursday that it's only two days till "COPS" and "Amerca's Most Wanted" on Owners favorite Network, FOX! I get enough "multi-culturalism" to last me for another week watching those two shows!

awmslave -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 6:52:21 PM)
quote: This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds. To my understanding they are arguing for the melting pot (assimilation) and against multi-culturalism that stands for mosaic society of different cultures (supposedly getting along). European experience shows that immigration without assimilation causes serious problems: look at russians in Baltics or North-Africans in France and Italy. These countries have agressive immigrant minority demanding all kinds of special priviledges. One of chief muslim clerics in London openly announced their (islamist minority) goal is to install Sharia Law in Great Britain.

popeye1250 -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 6:59:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awmslave quote: This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds. To my understanding they are arguing for the melting pot (assimilation) and against multi-culturalism that stands for mosaic society of different cultures (supposedly getting along). European experience shows that immigration without assimilation causes serious problems: look at russians in Baltics or North-Africans in France and Italy. These countries have agressive immigrant minority demanding all kinds of special priviledges. One of chief muslim clerics in London openly announced their (islamist minority) goal is to install Sharia Law in Great Britain. AWM, my argument is that I don't need my government trying to tell me what I "need." I think that if they polled The People they'd find out that we'd like to end all immigration for a good long time.

Owner59 -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 7:01:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awmslave quote: This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds. To my understanding they are arguing for the melting pot (assimilation) and against multi-culturalism that stands for mosaic society of different cultures (supposedly getting along). European experience shows that immigration without assimilation causes serious problems: look at russians in Baltics or North-Africans in France and Italy. These countries have agressive immigrant minority demanding all kinds of special priviledges. One of chief muslim clerics in London openly announced their (islamist minority) goal is to install Sharia Law in Great Britain. This group just wants the "dang furiers" to stay out,period. From your post,I take it you support the scared ninnies.

wankerforuse -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 7:15:06 PM)
Well i would have to say that multiculturalism is out of control all over the world.Due to the fact there are to many people in this world.I don't blame people for seeking a better life,it's just that when that particular family or individual.Threatens your own job cause they will try to undercut you for a job,and threaten your civil liberties.Then that creates alot of resentment towards immigrants especially here in the uk.Where there are thousands of homeless people living rough all over the country who are English. But are goverment are so weak/useless really as they would rather house immigrants give them the red carpet treatment.While ignoring their own countrymen and women.We have an appaling problem over here in the uk with immigrants,as we are only a small country.And already our goverment have given a green light to 35.000 Romanians to come over.Well done Gordon Brown another bad decision by you and your party.Personally i blame the people in office where these people are trying to flee from as their goverments should allow them to live like human beings,as opposed to filling their own pockets with all the countries bounties/fortunes.

Owner59 -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 7:28:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub Read this whole thread and decided that lables like "right-wing" and "liberal" have lost all meaning. Wonder if that's a good thing or not? pinksugarsub Pink, I was thinking that too! If you take the left wing wackos and the right wing wackos what are we talking, between 5 and 10% of the population? I know that when I'm "Jones-in'" for some "multi-culturalism" on a thursday that it's only two days till "COPS" and "Amerca's Most Wanted" on Owners favorite Network, FOX! I get enough "multi-culturalism" to last me for another week watching those two shows! Sorry that the link is not working for some. As far as left/right goes,this is a right-wing group. Here are some links off their page. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58798 WorldNetDaily is far right web site. http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/challenges.php?id=1385577 This is right -wing kooky.

popeye1250 -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 9:37:23 PM)
Owner, I don't know about you but I like "American" culture! Our music, food, clothing, cars, motorcycles, guns, everything! What's wrong with that? I'm just not interested in other countrie's cultures. I LOVE the 4th of July! What's so wrong with our culture that we have to import other cultures? People who like "multi-culturalism" are panseys!

Owner59 -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 9:43:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Owner, I don't know about you but I like "American" culture! Our music, food, clothing, cars, motorcycles, guns, everything! What's wrong with that? I'm just not interested in other countrie's cultures. I LOVE the 4th of July! What's so wrong with our culture that we have to import other cultures? Nothing Popeye,rock on!... I love our American culture,borrowed and unique. I like Italian,Spanish,Japanese,and Irish food too, though...[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m11.gif[/image]

Estring -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 10:03:58 PM)
I think the article was very well written and made some great points. When you have people such as the Muslim woman in Florida who refused to remove her veil for her drivers license photo, or Muslim cab drivers who refuse to pick up passengers they deem offensive to their religion, or illegal immigrants waving Mexican flags at rights rallys, there definitely is an assault on American culture. Our culture is a unique mixture of all the past immigrants who came here to be Americans and promote American values. To come here and expect to have your culture trump the American culture is ridiculous. And the people here who capitulate to these demands because of some multicultural pc point of view are equally ridiculous. It is funny how Liberals promote "diversity" as long as it is of color, but not of thought.

NCMountainMan -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 10:31:46 PM)
So when all of those waves of Irish and Italian immigrants left their mother countries headed for the U.S., they were doing so to promote "American values"?

Estring -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 11:02:22 PM)
They came here to begin new lives as Americans. What would you call that?

GoddessMine -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 11:03:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring I think the article was very well written and made some great points. When you have people such as the Muslim woman in Florida who refused to remove her veil for her drivers license photo, or Muslim cab drivers who refuse to pick up passengers they deem offensive to their religion, or illegal immigrants waving Mexican flags at rights rallys, there definitely is an assault on American culture. Our culture is a unique mixture of all the past immigrants who came here to be Americans and promote American values. To come here and expect to have your culture trump the American culture is ridiculous. And the people here who capitulate to these demands because of some multicultural pc point of view are equally ridiculous. It is funny how Liberals promote "diversity" as long as it is of color, but not of thought. What exactly is American culture? Does its definition exclude present/future immigrants? It's strange. I grew up around Taiwanese, Asian-Indian, Mexican, Jewish, Russian, Christian, Japanese, Armenian,Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Ethiopian, Muslim, Mormon, White (usually from varied European ethnicities), and of course, mixed kids like Me, the freaking physical manifestation of multiculturalism. Not once did I ever feel threatened when a foreign language was spoken around Me. Not once did I feel frowned upon when I'd speak Japanese with My mom. I always spot white guys shopping at My local Mitsuwa. The clerks are always extremely kind in helping Me find the right spices at the Indian grocery store down the street. I've walked past women in gorgeous burkas as My gorgeous tits flounce around. Not one weird glance from either party. There have been moments of miscommunication and clashing notions of etiquette, of course- tension inevitabily arises. But at the end of the day, I never feel wronged and I never feel any trivial grudges because - everybody loves McDonalds. Love, GM

NCMountainMan -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/26/2007 11:49:35 PM)
I would say that they came here seeking opportunity.

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