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stella41b -> RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? (11/28/2007 1:39:26 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Stella if you are correct that everything was better under communism, then Solidarnosc (sp)would not have risen in the dockyards. You assert everyone is fleeing a right wing government, where is your proof. There is no mention of a fascist purge in the media at all. people are comming here for one reason, money, when they arrive if they have poor working and living conditions they can always leave. You mention everyone had a job in the good old days of communism. Well someone is working in Poland as the national GDP is still much the same now.
You ask what i define as freedom, well the ability of the Poles to travel here if they wish, sounds better than your idea of having people rounded up and " Dealt with "
Still theres no need for you to worry is there, as you can always vote communism in when the next lection comes round 2010 i believe. Dont state shit like Stalin had the right idea, he was responsible for how many million deaths ( oh and include all the Polish in ww2 killed by the KGB ) Anyone who uses Stalin as shining light in politics deserves nothing but contempt in my book.
You know what, i always thought you were better than that.
Okay, let's start with this Stalin thing. You really think I was being serious when I suggested that? I wasn't, but you know I was making a very pointed reference to one party states and the hatred that left and right have for each other. You appear to have fallen into this trap. Stalin also gave us the United Nations. I don't quote Stalin as a shining light in politics but I like to keep perspective.
It's the same thing as Saddam Hussein, who was supposed to be one of the most evil political leaders of the modern world. The 'coalition forces' (I won't use the term American) even put him on trial. What happened? They executed him even before the second trial came to court. This to me wasn't justice, it was a lynching.
And you seriously think the media are going to report on a fascist purge? So what about the purging of homosexuals and lesbians and other minorities? What about the xenophobia and racism which is socially acceptable right through Eastern Europe? You want proof? I'm going by what Poles who chose to stay in Poland are telling me. You want proof? Go find one of the older Poles and ask them what life is really like in Poland and who Lech Kaczynski and his twin brother Jaroslaw really are. Ask them about Roman Giertych, Radio Maryja, and the League of Polish Families (LPR).
You can even visit www.gazeta.pl - it's got articles in English.
As for your definition of 'freedom' saying that the Poles can travel to the UK if they wish, this strikes me as having the same logic as the Norman Tebbit 'on your bike' argument in the early 1980's. Yes they have come here for money and work, which is a lot better than six months of Polish dole at £10 a week. Then what? Go through the streets collecting waste paper and empty beer cans all day, every day just to get a bit of money together? Well they can't do that because some of them have fathers and uncles who are already doing that. But you offer half of them a decent job back in Poland and they'd go back like a shot, just to be back with their family and friends.
Oh yes sure, there are people working in Poland, I agree with you, and am not surprised that the GDP is the same. But you take out the significant number who've gone abroad to work and also the significant number on benefits and sick and you'll probably find that it's the corporations and companies who are benefitting far more than your average employee who has to work much harder for less.
But please don't tell me that the right wing - which is what you appear to be implying - is any better. Margaret Thatcher is definitely not any sort of heroine but this is where it all started. It started with the dockers in Liverpool in 1980, it became apparent in St Pauls and Southall that year, in Brixton, Toxteth, Handsworth and Chapeltown in 1981, Wapping in 1982, the Miner's Strike in 1984, and so on, the Poll Tax, the Black Wednesday of 1987, and it has gone right through and all through this time what have people been doing? Sticking their heads in the sand, hiding behind the Daily Telegraph on the 8.32 to Charing Cross, pretending that it doesn't exist and that it will never happen to them.. and all along it's been the same system as it's been right through history since the time of Edward I - divide and rule.
But you know, given the choice between communism and this 'freedom' and 'democracy' we have in this country, which is based, just as in the times of Charles Dickens, on the exploitation of the weaker and less fortunate I'd rather choose communism.
Only I don't intend to be here in 2010. I'm proud to be British, and yes, I'm proud that British can indicate any member of the human race irrespective of skin colour, gender, ancestry, sexual orientation and religious belief, I love Britain, I love the people...
But when I see, as I have seen, four drunken suited types on a Friday night pissing on a homeless man sleeping in a sleeping bag on a quiet Soho street and laughing about it, taking photos with a mobile phone, I don't want to be here any more.
I don't accept this concept of 'freedom' when it only applies to bodies such as corporations, governments and companies and not to the individual, and I reject this concept of 'democracy' where I can be hated by others just for thinking or being different. A society is judged on the way it treats its poor, its sick and its vulnerable as to how civilised it is.
I may not end up in a better or more civilised place, I probably won't, but that isn't the point. The point is I will be expatriate and not living in this society any more.
However unlike the Poles, I am exercising my freedom - along with a lot of other Brits - and leaving.
I don't care what people think of me, this is what I see and this is my opinion.
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