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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/28/2007 10:10:07 AM

Kalista07

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SimplyMichael,
i, of course, agree with You completly...While to most it may appear a simple matter of semantics to me it boils down to quality over quantity.....
Not sure if i am making any sense today.....
Kali

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Post #: 21

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/28/2007 10:19:56 AM

Stephann

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So, I tend to see the statement "I am an experienced dominant" suggests that "I have been aware of my interest, and actively practiced authority exchange relationships for some time now." (Typically, I'd say anyone who's been in defined/established D/s relationships for more than a year or two would be 'experienced' with them, though obviously this is an arbitrary and extremely flexible statement.) Same for a submissive; one might have been submissive their entire life, but to be an experienced 'submissive' I would expect that she'd engaged in an established D/s relationship (as opposed to simply being submissive without any type of power exchange awareness.) I mention this distinction, simply because there's a question of common ground involved. When I talk about the distinction between discipline and pain play in an authority transfer relationship with my slave, my slave and I know exactly what 'discipline', 'pain play', 'authority transfer relationship' and 'slave' mean to both of us. This doesn't mean these factors don't exist in an otherwise 'vanilla' relationship, it simply means that we actively discuss and understand what these concepts mean to us. Having the same conversation about these topics with your average vanilla person can be extremely confusing and alarming even to people who regularly engage in all of these activities without realizing they are.

Charlotte has a female friend, Zoe who is extremely dominant. When I met her, charlotte wanted to try and explain how our relationship worked. As I got to know Zoe, it was obvious to me she was dominant. For that reason, she was quite concerned for charlotte, thinking that I might treat her badly, because Zoe couldn't imagine a man treating her the way I treat char. When she realized that some men enjoy relationships in a similar fashion as how Zoe enjoys men, she was quickly able to relate, and ceased to be concerned. Thus, I would say that Zoe is extremely dominant, but not an experienced dominant. Not yet anyway

Stephan

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Post #: 22

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/28/2007 10:31:10 AM

charlotte12

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Ahhh i see your point. I think sometimes i do take for granted that submission can come naturally having discovered the lifestyle at the same time that i was growing up and into myself.

I guess for me it really is more semantics. Saying "I am an experienced submissive" makes me feel funny but saying "I have experience submitting to a Man" does not tweak me the same way. The difference in my mind is that saying you've experienced submitting to a man (or woman) is simply naming an activity you've done. Saying you're an experienced submissive is suggesting (to me) that submission is something that can only grow and be discovered through certain activities. It conjures up in my head the image of submission as a sport or a job. I can see that this is probably not how you mean it but it's simply the way it feels to me when i hear it said.

I hope i am making sense. Thanks for discussing this with me. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotte12

How do you see experience being relevent to the Dominance or submission though? In my mind that equates to someone saying "I am an experienced woman with skill in math and walking in high heels."

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just thinking outloud and am curious how others see it and why they choose to use the word "experienced" before "Dominant" or "submissive."

charlotte.. who is sometimes *too* curious

it would seem that you take for granted that you have been able to be submissive for a long while, like being a woman...
imagine that for the first 20 or 30 years of your life you had to act as if you were a man...you would need experience in being your "true" (as much as i hate the word) self as a woman...that is what it is like for a great number of people who discover the lifestyle later in life...

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Post #: 23

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/28/2007 10:36:28 AM

stella41b

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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am no longer going to use the word "experienced" to describe a person's ability to do BDSM. Instead I am going to use the word skill. I think it is more descriptive of what we are trying to say. A person can be "experienced" and have all of that experience as failure whereas "skill" more clearly indicates what we mean. In addition, it strips away time as an indicator of "experience". Someone can be gifted and develop skill quickly, some take longer, and some never get it.

Thoughts, comments, derision?

I also agree with you 100%. I've been doing something similar for some years when I use the adjectives 'quality', 'high quality' and see that you're a high quality male Dom. But you've come up with a much better word which I'll probably adopt.

I've just had a shining example of that this week. I've just gone through a pretty traumatic couple of months, I've been going through this site looking for a new Mistress and offering myself and have been in contact with about a dozen Dommes, all claiming to be highly experienced, and I opened myself up, poured my heart out and it's all turned into an online fantasy. I was the one who jumped in and rushed in, I'm impulsive, and I admit this.

None of them ever said to me 'whoa stop Stella, get a grip on yourself'. I wasn't expecting them to but you know, how can you have any sort of D/s relationship - irrespective of whether it's online or not - if you haven't got the basic friendship, trust and open, clear honest communication?

Okay, fine, I've nothing against people having fun, playing the games, or even sharing their fantasies, but some of us do take this seriously and it isn't so much of a game.

The one I thought I lost has reappeared, we talked, I'm okay, I'm fine. The online relationship went on too long and I'm flying out to the States soon. This means I'm going to disappear again for a lengthy absence and I'm leaving the whole BDSM community for a while.

Experience counts for nothing when you get to the bottom line. I need to go back to the beginning and go through this step by step.

This is one of the best OP's I've read on here for a long time.

Being Dominant isn't about having power, being submissive isn't about giving up power, this isn't BDSM.

BDSM is about using both power and energy through your interactions for the benefit of each other and for the benefit of the relationship. What is written in the OP illustrates this concept very clearly and beautifully.

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Post #: 24

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/28/2007 11:49:09 AM

DarkDaddyZ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am no longer going to use the word "experienced" to describe a person's ability to do BDSM. Instead I am going to use the word skill. I think it is more descriptive of what we are trying to say. A person can be "experienced" and have all of that experience as failure whereas "skill" more clearly indicates what we mean. In addition, it strips away time as an indicator of "experience". Someone can be gifted and develop skill quickly, some take longer, and some never get it.

Thoughts, comments, derision?

I like it when it comes to physical elements of BDSM play (and I believe you are referring to that). When I look for casual play partners, I probably look for those who have more "experience" than others (in bottoming). When I look for long term relationships skill and experience within BDSM doesn't matter to me as much as the desire to learn about BDSM. The main requirement for that (for me) is to be safe, sane, and able to take ownership (with my personal definition of safe and sane).

Z-

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Post #: 25

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/28/2007 10:53:00 PM

Guilty1974

Posts: 467
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From: Den Haag
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Excellent idea!

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)

Post #: 26

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/28/2007 11:10:09 PM

MasterFireMaam

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From: Charleston, WV
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It's kinda like comparing precision and accuracy. Precision means you hit the same place consistanty. However, if the same place is your foot, it's likely that you're not very accurate! :-)

The distinction is a good one.

Master Fire

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Post #: 27

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 2:01:41 AM

Jayxkes

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I quite like the idea, though I suspect that when/if it catches on it will go the same way as experienced, sub, slave etc etc, in that it will start to mean different things to different people.

When someone tells me they are experienced, or skilled, I view it as saying they have 'an amount' of knowledge. Then it's up to me to continue the communication and drill as deep as I feel I need to.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 28

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:09:56 AM

Machts

Posts: 96
Status: offline

Let's say that a person has a great deal of experience with food and excercise.

One uses that experience to shun excercise, overeat junk food-and swells up like a pig. Keels over from a heart attack a year later-dies at 30.

Another actually excercises, Eats a modicum of healthy food-and is very fit. Lives to be 100 years old.

Which was skilled?

(in reply to Jayxkes)

Post #: 29

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:27:01 AM

Vanatru

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I tend to agree with you, Jay. "Skill" sounds different, so it doesn't have the baggage that "experienced" implies to some people, but used enough it will garner it's own negative connotations. And someone saying either word means nothing without some sort of proof.

(in reply to Machts)

Post #: 30

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:35:29 AM

Jeffff

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This is about a more specific terminology, not about proof. No words can be given as proof. Even notarized affidavits can be faked.

Jeff

(in reply to Vanatru)

Post #: 31

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:37:20 AM

missturbation

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~fr~
I'm not for or against either word.
If you say 'i have ten years experience of using a cane', i'm going to ask for proof you are capable before you cane my ass.
If you say 'i am highly skilled in using the cane', i am going to ask for proof you are capable before you cane my ass.
Actions speak louder than words every time.

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Post #: 32

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:38:57 AM

Machts

Posts: 96
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I've watched tops in clubs who beat asses literally black to get a girl to space.

And others who did the exact same thing-with a few needles. Leaving no marks.

That's the difference between skill-and stupid brute force.

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 33

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:40:43 AM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

~fr~
I'm not for or against either word.
If you say 'i have ten years experience of using a cane', i'm going to ask for proof you are capable before you cane my ass.
If you say 'i am highly skilled in using the cane', i am going to ask for proof you are capable before you cane my ass.
Actions speak louder than words every time.

LMAO this is not a dig at you Misst...I just got this very vivid image in my head of a bottom, discussing with a top; all the different activities that the top is "proficent" at...and then pulling out certificates of completion for proof

LMAO

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Post #: 34

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:42:32 AM

Machts

Posts: 96
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

~fr~
I'm not for or against either word.
If you say 'i have ten years experience of using a cane', i'm going to ask for proof you are capable before you cane my ass.
If you say 'i am highly skilled in using the cane', i am going to ask for proof you are capable before you cane my ass.
Actions speak louder than words every time.

LMAO this is not a dig at you Misst...I just got this very vivid image in my head of a bottom, discussing with a top; all the different activities that the top is "proficent" at...and then pulling out certificates of completion for proof

LMAO

That's why people use refferences from play partners. Which is also a good way to help Tops NOT get into the habit of shitting where they sleep-play wise.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 35

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:43:43 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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Lmao, am i the only one who asks for those certificates?
I'm laughing now cos that is how my post comes across isn't it? I didn't mean it like that of course lol.
I meant anyone can say i'm experienced / skilled, but unless they have the action to back it up..........

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 36

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:45:08 AM

IrishMist

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LOL don't try and patronize me...I don't believe in references; I don't believe in 'demanding that you prove you can cane me'....

I rely simply on getting to know a person...best defense in the world

Either way...it does not matter...because this thread is not about references and proving whether or not someone is proficient...it's simply about two different words and how they can be used to alleviate some confusion.

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Post #: 37

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:48:02 AM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Lmao, am i the only one who asks for those certificates?
I'm laughing now cos that is how my post comes across isn't it? I didn't mean it like that of course lol.
I meant anyone can say i'm experienced / skilled, but unless they have the action to back it up..........

LOL I know you didn't...the image actually popped into my mind when vanatru said something about demanding proof...your's just kind of made it more vivid lol

I am giggling over it now.

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Post #: 38

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:50:42 AM

Machts

Posts: 96
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

LOL don't try and patronize me...I don't believe in references; I don't believe in 'demanding that you prove you can cane me'....

I rely simply on getting to know a person...best defense in the world

Either way...it does not matter...because this thread is not about references and proving whether or not someone is proficient...it's simply about two different words and how they can be used to alleviate some confusion.

But asking for some sure takes the wind out of the bullshitters.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 39

RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 6:52:55 AM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

But asking for some sure takes the wind out of the bullshitters.

If that's the only route you go, then yes, go for it. I am not against others who do, in fact, for newer people I always tell them to attend some parties and watch the tops there to see how they operate.

For me though...It would not work for reasons that I am not going to go into here

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Post #: 40

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