quote:

Okay, so let me ask you the following... When you want to go see a movie, do you go and 'ask around'? Do you 'ask around' when you want to listen to some music?

How about books? Do you 'ask around' before you pick up a book?

This is the same thing, the exact same thing. I could start a thread asking who is the greatest English language female singer of all time and it would run for pages. Same too if I asked who is the greatest American actor of all time.

Still not sure it's the same?

Okay. So you tell me who's the best male Dominant here on Collarme? Who's the best Domme? The best female submissive? Of course, you don't know. So why don't you go and 'ask around'?

So okay, it's your way, and you don't care about what I think or others think as we all have our own way.

But this much I will tell you. If I were like you more concerned over the possible damage to a toy or a piece of equipment more and value that more than the potential play partner I'd quit BDSM tomorrow and stop meeting people.

If I felt I needed the opinions of other people to make my own decisions and form my own relationships with play partners I would also quit.

BDSM is about giving and sharing, not about taking or making use of. It's no different from any other relationship. It's about taking on the responsibility for your own decisions, instincts and feelings. BDSM is about giving and sharing, therefore it's about giving people chances and taking risks. And the truth is, as far as I'm concerned, unless you are prepared to do that you have no place in the community and no right to call yourself either a skilled Dominant or a skilled submissive.

But as you say most women ask for references. Yes. And I'll explain why. A lot of Dommes aren't actually Dommes, but women pretending to be Dommes, out for what they can get, whether it's sexual gratification, extra housekeeping, or something else. They call themselves a Domme and that is maybe how they are seen and perceived, but they are abusing both that position and their power. They are the ones who regard submissives as stupid, incompetent, naive, there to be exploited and used. You see it all the time on this site. I saw a journal entry when I logged in from a Domme looking for a 'slave' to design a website just to please her. No offer of anything in return.

They are no better than the HNG's and other 'game players' and idiots which also infiltrate this site. This is where you get the backbiting and bitching in the community.

Your reputation in this community is not just about you, but it's also about the people you know and who you associate with. The references are meaningless and all you are doing by asking around is poking your nose into the past relationships of other people.

Several people have challenged what you wrote and you have argued back. I respect that you have your own way. Fine. I'm not writing this to challenge you or argue with you. I just want to teach you.

Whether you learn from what I right depends on you. Your choice.

But consider that quite often in BDSM you rarely get the partner you want, but the one you need and deserve.

Think about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Hi stella,

It's a lovely sentiment, but I don't think very practical. It's why if I owned a trucking company, I would do my best to only hire drivers who are at least in their mid twenties so that they have proven experience to drive my vehicles. There's a reason employers ask you for references; if you can't produce any, why should they feel they can just take your word for it?

Obviously, relationships ended for one reason or another; I don't expect someone's references to be steller, but neither do I feel comfortable involving myself with a submissive who has zero friends (or is afraid to explain why she has no friends.) Ultimately, I'm still going to make that decision for myself; I don't expect her to get involved with me, without having an idea of who I am, too though.

Regards,

Stephan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

I've watched tops in clubs who beat asses literally black to get a girl to space.

And others who did the exact same thing-with a few needles. Leaving no marks.

That's the difference between skill-and stupid brute force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

I've watched tops in clubs who beat asses literally black to get a girl to space.

And others who did the exact same thing-with a few needles. Leaving no marks.

That's the difference between skill-and stupid brute force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

I've watched tops in clubs who beat asses literally black to get a girl to space.

And others who did the exact same thing-with a few needles. Leaving no marks.

That's the difference between skill-and stupid brute force.

i know that this is off topic but i just felt the great need to respond...

i don't think this says anything about it one way or another....there are WAAAY too many variables here.

Why would someone who leaves a girl black and blue be unskilled?  What about someone like me who hardly marks at all?....the same  "stupid" brute force would not yeild the same results by any means. What about the one who marks super easily? What about the fact that there are those who LOVE to be marked and those who love to mark?

What about the fact that not everyone can go into space? What about the fact that it takes different things to make someone go there?...

Neither of the above activites would make me go to subspace...not even close....so how can that be reflective of the skill or experience of the Dom? It can't be.

IMO that is not a good example at all.

Now back to my reading...

quote:

Let's not forget that Tops have thier limits too.  Mine happen to be not taking part in activities that may leave someone fucked up physically or mentally for life-and I have seen the results of cumulative damage this sort of play can leave behind. I don't CARE if the bottom consents to that happening-I won't be involved in doing it.

What's going to happen if someone like this has to deal with it thirty years from now? When she's a senior citizen? Think she'll still be has happy about it then? The rest of you may not think very far ahead, but I DO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

I've watched tops in clubs who beat asses literally black to get a girl to space.

And others who did the exact same thing-with a few needles. Leaving no marks.

That's the difference between skill-and stupid brute force.

I hate needles.  I love having my pain limits pushed.  Your comments after this indicate you thought this was a bad thing because the person "wasn't a true masochist" because they were in pain and didn't appear to be enjoying it.  I'm not sure where you got the impression that masochism meant pain was always translated into erotic pain.  It sure doesn't.  Masochism can mean craving pain, even bad pain, even pain someone doesn't enjoy.  I would be very likely to be the bottom in that scenario, look like I hated it and love every minute of it and even the bruising afterwards.

This is the problem with either experience or skill.  The number of people you've been with means nothing when you don't take into account that this person may be the complete opposite.  Listening and having an open mind is much more important in my opinion.

With regard to references, anyone can get someone to say anything on the internet.  Unless you're going to meet that person in person (even then they can lie and never even have been with the person) and ask your potential partner to out their former partners to someone they don't know (which would be rude regardless of your current friendship status with them), what's the point?  Using your head, using your instincts, proceeding carefully and listening/thinking/talking is much more important that any reference.  Listening/thinking/talking is much more important than skill/experience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Let's not forget that Tops have thier limits too.  Mine happen to be not taking part in activities that may leave someone fucked up physically or mentally for life-and I have seen the results of cumulative damage this sort of play can leave behind. I don't CARE if the bottom consents to that happening-I won't be involved in doing it.

What's going to happen if someone like this has to deal with it thirty years from now? When she's a senior citizen? Think she'll still be has happy about it then? The rest of you may not think very far ahead, but I DO.

Oh for fuck's sake...get a grip on yourself

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

I've watched tops in clubs who beat asses literally black to get a girl to space.

And others who did the exact same thing-with a few needles. Leaving no marks.

That's the difference between skill-and stupid brute force.

i know that this is off topic but i just felt the great need to respond...

i don't think this says anything about it one way or another....there are WAAAY too many variables here.

Why would someone who leaves a girl black and blue be unskilled?  What about someone like me who hardly marks at all?....the same  "stupid" brute force would not yeild the same results by any means. What about the one who marks super easily? What about the fact that there are those who LOVE to be marked and those who love to mark?

What about the fact that not everyone can go into space? What about the fact that it takes different things to make someone go there?...

Neither of the above activites would make me go to subspace...not even close....so how can that be reflective of the skill or experience of the Dom? It can't be.

IMO that is not a good example at all.

Now back to my reading...

Let's not forget that Tops have thier limits too.  Mine happen to be not taking part in activities that may leave someone fucked up physically or mentally for life-and I have seen the results of cumulative damage this sort of play can leave behind. I don't CARE if the bottom consents to that happening-I won't be involved in doing it.

What's going to happen if someone like this has to deal with it thirty years from now? When she's a senior citizen? Think she'll still be has happy about it then? The rest of you may not think very far ahead, but I DO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Calling isn't any better than the internet in my opinion and not all people live in areas where there even are clubs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts


Otherwise? How I play is up to my conscience. if it feels wrong to me, I won't do it. If it costs me a play partner, that's fine. It's the lesser of two evils.

And as an aside, I only date vanilla women these days. They don't come equipped with the bullshit I find in places like this-it's very refreshing. I have no intention of hooking up with anyone from here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

I've watched tops in clubs who beat asses literally black to get a girl to space.

And others who did the exact same thing-with a few needles. Leaving no marks.

That's the difference between skill-and stupid brute force.

i know that this is off topic but i just felt the great need to respond...

i don't think this says anything about it one way or another....there are WAAAY too many variables here.

Why would someone who leaves a girl black and blue be unskilled?  What about someone like me who hardly marks at all?....the same  "stupid" brute force would not yeild the same results by any means. What about the one who marks super easily? What about the fact that there are those who LOVE to be marked and those who love to mark?

What about the fact that not everyone can go into space? What about the fact that it takes different things to make someone go there?...

Neither of the above activites would make me go to subspace...not even close....so how can that be reflective of the skill or experience of the Dom? It can't be.

IMO that is not a good example at all.

Now back to my reading...

Let's not forget that Tops have thier limits too.  Mine happen to be not taking part in activities that may leave someone fucked up physically or mentally for life-and I have seen the results of cumulative damage this sort of play can leave behind. I don't CARE if the bottom consents to that happening-I won't be involved in doing it.

What's going to happen if someone like this has to deal with it thirty years from now? When she's a senior citizen? Think she'll still be has happy about it then? The rest of you may not think very far ahead, but I DO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

Let's not forget that Tops have thier limits too. Mine happen to be not taking part in activities that may leave someone fucked up physically or mentally for life-and I have seen the results of cumulative damage this sort of play can leave behind. I don't CARE if the bottom consents to that happening-I won't be involved in doing it.

What's going to happen if someone like this has to deal with it thirty years from now? When she's a senior citizen? Think she'll still be has happy about it then? The rest of you may not think very far ahead, but I DO.

quote:

.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Hi stella,

It's a lovely sentiment, but I don't think very practical. It's why if I owned a trucking company, I would do my best to only hire drivers who are at least in their mid twenties so that they have proven experience to drive my vehicles. There's a reason employers ask you for references; if you can't produce any, why should they feel they can just take your word for it?

Obviously, relationships ended for one reason or another; I don't expect someone's references to be steller, but neither do I feel comfortable involving myself with a submissive who has zero friends (or is afraid to explain why she has no friends.) Ultimately, I'm still going to make that decision for myself; I don't expect her to get involved with me, without having an idea of who I am, too though.

Regards,

Stephan

Thank you for your reply. I agree with you, References in employment are necessary, mandatory when it comes to any sort of skilled employment. But here you are looking for someone with a specific skill to do a job or carry out a profession for the benefit of creating a product or giving a service. Does it really matter who actually does the job just as long as they meet your criteria and have the necessary references and experience? I think not.

Now are you then trying to tell me that a BDSM relationship between two people is exactly the same as a relationship between an Employer and an Employee?

A service submissive perhaps? Okay, well domestic cleaners always require references, but it has very little to do with how well or how badly they can clean. It's more an assurance that someone won't steal from you whilst they're in your house. But your home is your home and different to everyone else's and your standards of cleaning may be higher or not the same as someone else. The only way of knowing whether you have found a good domestic cleaner is by asking them to com and do a couple of hours and take the risk.

Therefore I still disagree that you need a reference in a BDSM type of relationship. I can only speak from my own experience. I still maintain friendly contact with half the Dommes I've had a relationship with, and am in a position where I can if required provide references. But I've never needed to. They've asked me all the information they've wanted to know and they've also checked up that the information I've given is accurate. I see where you're coming from, and have felt in a few cases when I've been under consideration that a reference would help a potential Domme explain something which she has difficulties understanding, where I thought a different explanation from someone else would be useful.

But at the end of the day - and I'm sure you'll understand my point here - it's how you understand your girl and how she understands you and how well you get to know each other and find that 'common language' which creates the relationship, not the references.

This is how I see it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

TO me its a two edge sword, first in order to become skilled you need experience,so take your pick....

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It just hit me why it works so much better for me:

Experienced is a quantitative word, meaning I have 10 years of bad experience randomly beating someone with a cane.

vs.

Skill is a qualitative word, meaning I can put 10 perfectly spaced stripes on a submissives ass with cane.