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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 7:06:48 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

Maybe it doesn't matter to you-it does to me.  Why are you getting so upset? It's just a chat board. Or did I hit a nerve?

LMFAO

If you think that this is an example of me being upset...honey you don't know me very well



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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/29/2007 8:10:41 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		I'm going to post this before reading another post.   There was a topic that came up at TSR, which dealt with semantics and specifically how there is a desire to let specific definitions blend.  He stated there were obvious reasons why people would want that type, and further, promote confusion.  To be honest, I only half understand it, and I truly feel that I don't get the entirity of it.
Which leads me to the question of ..................by what criteria? 

I'm a firm believer in that sometimes we open our minds so much that our brains fall out. 


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/30/2007 4:16:06 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I am still awaiting to see if you would answer my question as to whether you would offer a bad reference or only good ones.
One doesn't have to respond of course.  If references are so important, I would believe it would be good to see them from both sides surely for a good, even standpoint?
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/30/2007 5:53:29 AM   
missturbation


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References are only as reliable as the person giving them !!

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/30/2007 8:15:21 AM   
Machts


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I am still awaiting to see if you would answer my question as to whether you would offer a bad reference or only good ones.
One doesn't have to respond of course.  If references are so important, I would believe it would be good to see them from both sides surely for a good, even standpoint?
 
the.dark.

 
You don't seem obliged to looking beyond the end of your nose. I think that talking with you about pretty much any views that oppose yours is going to be futile. Don't expect replies from me in the future-I prefer to discuss with open minds-not closed ones.

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 11/30/2007 8:27:13 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Machts

You don't seem obliged to looking beyond the end of your nose. I think that talking with you about pretty much any views that oppose yours is going to be futile. Don't expect replies from me in the future-I prefer to discuss with open minds-not closed ones.


If someone is willing to give the good with the bad, I consider that to be a admirable act.  If one only gives the positive all the time, I would assume that person has no desire to learn or sees themselves as already 'there'.  If you prefere to throw insults around instead of holding an adult discussion, and think that just because someone is openly disagreeing with you they are 'close minded' - that is your choice - but you would be in error.  I presented a reasonable question that could alter my view - or at least see how it could work.  But you are unwilling to answer - no biggie.  If I was presented with references, I would want both sets - what is so disagreeable about that?  Anyone willing to be open about the negative as well as the positive pretty much rocks in my book.
Be safe.

the.dark.

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/2/2007 7:07:30 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		I started a seperate thread for the references debate, I would appreciate you taking that discussion there.

As for "skill" it is only usefull as an adjective with other modifiers.  More importanly I think it changes the mindset to what we want to measure which isn't how long or how many times someone has done something but how well. 

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/2/2007 8:36:14 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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Status: offline 		Ahh but you see, then you have to go with how each individual defines how well it is done...so experience or skilled it ultimately comes down to individual definition..The proof will always be in the pudding..Tempting

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/2/2007 11:54:46 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		No shit, words aren't actions, however I notice you are still using them so they must be useful for something.


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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/3/2007 3:35:29 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		Someone who has been married many times has quite a bit of experience being married.  The sheer numbers imply lack of skill in picking partners, or having the skill to maintain a relationship.

I prefer skill to experience..

Experience may result in skill ...but experience does not insure skill

< Message edited by spankmepink11 -- 12/3/2007 3:36:29 AM >

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/3/2007 3:47:30 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I wouldn't deny a request to give information about my past and never have.  That is totally different than giving out my former partner's contact information, telephone number, etc.


Or my friends, family's or employers phone number so he could out me. Some of us are private, we don't play publicly, we may not even have a public venue in which to play. So the only references you could ask would be the ones we aren't about to give.

I'm also not giving out my accountant's name or my stockbroker even if you say financially solvent is a must. You still have to take my work for it.

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/3/2007 9:36:37 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

No shit, words aren't actions, however I notice you are still using them so they must be useful for something.


your right no shit!..words are a good way to communicate basic thoughts,,but your preference to skilled versus experience still comes down to the same thing different wording same possible meaning or interpretation..Tempting

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You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/4/2007 12:19:09 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		Well, if all you can do is communicate basic thoughts then perhaps that explains why you cannot grasp the conceptual shift that using skill over experience creates.  

I think that shifting people's perceptions from juding quantity to quality might seem subtle but it isn't.   

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/4/2007 6:35:10 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am no longer going to use the word "experienced" to describe a person's ability to do BDSM.  Instead I am going to use the word skill.  I think it is more descriptive of what we are trying to say.  A person can be "experienced" and have all of that experience as failure whereas "skill" more clearly indicates what we mean.  In addition, it strips away time as an indicator of "experience".  Someone can be gifted and develop skill quickly, some take longer, and some never get it.

Thoughts, comments, derision?


You know, I have thought and though about this and although at first glance it seems like a really good concept, 'skill' still has flaws just as 'experience'.
I don't believe skill does indicate more clearly.  Maybe it's because of what I do - photography can be deemed a 'skill' - but all skill is purely subjective.  I may think Adams Rocks but that Hirsch blows chunks.  Doesn't make Hirsch less skillfull or less experienced.  It's individual perception that counts at the end of the day when one is faced with making decision... it's totally subjective.  Someone may believe they have shibari techniques down to a fine art and have a great skill, but I have lost count of the number of times I have just not been impressed.
End of the day, I surmise it all just comes down to semantics, and if using the word 'skill' feels more of an indicator than 'experience' then do what works for you.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/4/2007 8:08:37 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Well, if all you can do is communicate basic thoughts then perhaps that explains why you cannot grasp the conceptual shift that using skill over experience creates.  

I think that shifting people's perceptions from juding quantity to quality might seem subtle but it isn't.   
Not subtle what so ever...imperceptible...I can grasp the conceptual..it just simply, is non-existent here...And as far as making it more definitive to assist with judging quantity versus quality then I think the Dark explained that lacking exceptionally well.....But if such works for you then have at it...Tempting

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I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/4/2007 9:13:35 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

I don't believe skill does indicate more clearly.  Maybe it's because of what I do - photography can be deemed a 'skill' - but all skill is purely subjective


Depends on the skill, you either have the skill to understand light settings or  you don't, it isn't subjective.  How you use it in art is of course subjective but that is a different discussion.  You either have the skill to understand how shutter speed affects the outcome of the picture or you don't. 

Of course just saying "I am skilled" is meaningless but shifting the paradyme from time to quality changes the entire construct of the lanaguage we then use to explain it. 

A perfect example is "old guard" which carries its cache because it is "older" and thus by using "experience" as a guide, it means better.  Instead, "skill" requires focusing and explaining the actual act under discussion.

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/5/2007 2:45:26 AM   
mons


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Status: offline 		greetings

i would say i am skilled in knowing what a slave would wish for but i have not experience that special type of rope bondage . so i am skilled in many things but i have not experience others. i hope that makes sense, i take this as a skilled and experience things i am a doll house builder this is not for little one's. but only for adults i am skilled and experience in this, that is the only thing i could say i am both skilled and experience in,  dolls anyone Else build these would love to know

mons

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/5/2007 3:13:03 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I still disagree Michael.
Some people have no idea how to use light in conjunction with photography - they may alter the light or take photographs in a certain light because they think it looks good, or it might just be luck.  I have lost count of the number of times I have had a discussion where 'luck' played a part to a photographer - not skill.  Yet there are those who have the skill of using light, and still I would suggest their photography doesn't look 'right'.  But isn't that the risk you take hey?
 
I personally would not work with either skill or experience.  Yes, I can say I have both in different areas - to me it means nothing until I really work with that person and I would be much more impressed or 'swayed' if I was told the person had the aptitude - or the talent for something, than any skill or experience.  Like I said before, its probably all down to semantics and which definition of a word makes sense to the individual.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/5/2007 7:35:27 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		Of course nothing compares to working with someone to see how good they are!  Also, both aptitude and talent are measures of skill...not time...

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RE: Experienced vs. Skilled - 12/5/2007 7:52:14 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		It's just words I prefere.  Skill is something too - trying to think of the word... ummm... non-descriptive for me.  It implies experience though learning a skill to develop - whereas talent or aptitude implies something more personal and individual.  That's the word I am looking for - individual.  I'm not interested in someone who has gained simply experience and learnt a skill purely via practise.  I want to be involved with people who also have natural ability which is personal to them.  I want to feel the energy from within, not simply something that's been learned or practised to make a person skillfull - if that makes any sense.
 
Like I have said before elsewhere, I am a complete word whore (as far as it is a fetish) and tend to work with those words that when applied inspire me and so both the words skill and experience just don't.  They just feel empty to me.  They depersonalise the person and what is being done.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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