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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 9:49:18 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I didn't watch the video.  But struggling with a cop is not a good anything.  I think most people would be aware of that.

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 9:56:10 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

The real problem with these cops is how they use the tazer. First of all the rely too heavily on the tazer, better that thanntheir guns, but they seem to thing screw it use the tazer rather than trying to solve it by some other means. Also he tazed her on her neck. I mean who thinks "Hey I'm going to shoot her in the neck with my tazer"? I have seen a few other reports of cops shoooting people above the shoulders with their tazer. One guy actually managed to hit a person in the eye. A tazer has the same effect on people no matter where you shoot them and in training classes they are told not to aim for the head. No for those of you who say it was an mistake they don't mean to taser people in the face, chack and see how the number of not just tazer related but actual tazer "headshot" incdents has risin in the past year.

And yes the lady looked pregnant to me too.

Its supposed to be a nonlethal weapon, lets keep it that way

It is never supposed to be non-lethal.  Hell, even marshmallows are not non-lethal.
http://www.theksbwchannel.com/news/4540793/detail.html

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/09/13/marshmallow-choking.html

It is supposed to be less likely to cause death or serious bodily harm than a gun.

And I didn't see anywhere in that video where the cop shot his Tazer at her head, it looked to me like he used the non-firing option and pressed it against her neck to stun her without releasing the barbs or endangering an eye.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 11/29/2007 10:04:16 AM >

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 9:58:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I part ways with you there boss.  Look, my computer has problems because it is an aspect of the job. 

When I welded I got burnt.

If you are a carpenter, you bang your thumb (or shoot the hand with a nail gun)

If you arrest people, they resist.

Part of the job, not a reason to be a fuckin shithead.

Ron 

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:05:20 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I part ways with you there boss.  Look, my computer has problems because it is an aspect of the job. 

When I welded I got burnt.

If you are a carpenter, you bang your thumb (or shoot the hand with a nail gun)

If you arrest people, they resist.

Part of the job, not a reason to be a fuckin shithead.


I knew there was a reason I like this guy!!!
 
B

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:05:30 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

If you are a carpenter, you bang your thumb (or shoot the hand with a nail gun)

If you arrest people, they resist.


So did you just go off and leave the job undone?  Or did you whack it again with a bigger hammer?

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:11:40 AM   
Masterslena


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		excessive force in my opinion. she was already subdued on the floor and could have easily been taken into custody with the help of other officers.  had the officer used his common sense and relied on his self defence training he would never have tazered the woman.  the fact is though, when you are taking someone down to the floor, they do go down on their stomachs. its all about momentum, plain and simple.  it is hard to visually tell if she is pregnant and considering the fact that the child she was trying to abandon is only 1 year old it is feasible that the officer thought she looked overweight as opposed to pregnant. 

all officers have to be careful when dealing with continuum of force issues and have to take care to CYA.  some CIVILIANS though are too quick to criticise and know little to nothing about the stress involved on the job.  if you're not willing to put your own ass on the line as a police officer, correctional officer or customs or other officer take a step back and a deep breath and understand that sometimes these decisions are made under stress.  

each and every one of us is capable of doing something we might regret later and an officer is no different.  we don't know what was going through his mind, or what information he had that made him react the way he did.  nor do we know what that woman would have done with the child had she been allowed to leave with him...and the officer can't take a chance that she doesn't have a knife in her pocket....

my thought is that he probably just received tazer training and was a little too anxious to try it out...

jmho...

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:15:12 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I didn't watch the video.  But struggling with a cop is not a good anything.  I think most people would be aware of that.


Katy, yeah, I've been pulled over before and I just say "Yes Sir, No Sir" and there's never been a problem.
I think there could be a problem with the fact that tazers are just too easy to use.
What ever happenned to pepper spray?
We used "CS" in the USCG. Teargas.
It was very effective.

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:17:11 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

had the officer used his common sense and relied on his self defence training he would never have tazered the woman


You are thinking about Chuck Norris as 'Walker Texas Ranger'

Cops don't get enough 'self defense training' to pull off arrests with their bare hands without harming resisting subjects or themselves.
That is why there is a use of force continuum that moves up to whatever level is needed to do the job quickly.
One can disagree on whether this particular cop exceeded the guidleines, and I'm sure that there will be lawyers and possibly juries deciding that in the future.

But in general, police are not hired to win fistfights with people.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 11/29/2007 10:18:20 AM >

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:20:29 AM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Walker: Texas Ranger, and Marshall Law, and to a lesser extent even Nash Bridges are all very FICTIONAL cops, who would in "real" life be buried in red-tape and lawsuits, regardless how good of "results" they got!
Come to think of it, even Superman was sued once in a TV show, wasn't he?

< Message edited by EPGAH -- 11/29/2007 10:21:54 AM >

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:27:24 AM   
Masterslena


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

had the officer used his common sense and relied on his self defence training he would never have tazered the woman


You are thinking about Chuck Norris as 'Walker Texas Ranger'

Cops don't get enough 'self defense training' to pull off arrests with their bare hands without harming resisting subjects or themselves.
That is why there is a use of force continuum that moves up to whatever level is needed to do the job quickly.
One can disagree on whether this particular cop exceeded the guidleines, and I'm sure that there will be lawyers and possibly juries deciding that in the future.

But in general, police are not hired to win fistfights with people.


well...maybe not down in the states but here in canada we are trained for physical self defense....and no, i wasn't thinking about chuck norris...i was thinking of my own self defense training...but hey, how would you know that... <smiles>

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:27:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

A:
But in general, police are not hired to win fistfights with people.
[/qoute]

the broad was not fistfighting.  In general, nobody with no more ambition than to be that kinda cop should have been  (or very soon will be) shot.

R

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:32:08 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterslena

well...maybe not down in the states but here in canada we are trained for physical self defense....and no, i wasn't thinking about chuck norris...i was thinking of my own self defense training...but hey, how would you know that... <smiles>


Not so much down here in the states, we have often got guys in here from HP, County or city that wanna learn a little self defense move or two.

Ron   

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:32:09 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Wasn't talking about 'this broad' Ron. 
I was very clearly addressing the general notion that cops are supposed to rely on superior martial arts training and abilities like the TV cops do.

I would ask you if you can tell the difference, but I've just been warned by Mod 11 for talking all uppity and such to my 'betters', so I'll let it go.

Feel secure in your delusions.

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:33:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yup, I followed that Alumbrado, and my pointed in general reference was to that issue, there is this matter of constant escalation that needs some tweaking.

Ron

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:37:34 AM   
Masterslena


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		trust me...i know that excellent self defense is taught in the USA as well as Canada...based on what Alumbrado stated though, a reader might assume that police there get little more than basic training!  no one expects 'average cop joe' to be a super cop, but if an officer remembers his basic training he should be able to subdue a suspect easily without using excessive force...especially a smaller female...the officer was in his own police detachment afterall and had other officers in close proximity if needed...

:)

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:38:46 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Keep in mind, my hypothesis.

That the extra-judicial torture using tasers is an intentional effect of the Totalitarian Police State.

They've already got the sheep saying dumb shit like, "If he only obeyed the officer, he wouldn't have been tasered ( tortured )", regardless of Lawfulness of the officer's actions...

All those people who are *already* afraid of being tasered, should *they* speak up.

Welcome to the Police State. If you do not INSTANTLY OBEY YOU WILL BE TASERED.



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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:41:01 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterslena

well...maybe not down in the states but here in canada we are trained for physical self defense....and no, i wasn't thinking about chuck norris...i was thinking of my own self defense training...but hey, how would you know that... <smiles>


From working with people like Greg Saville, former RCMP officer and trainer for years? From training with other combatives instructors from around world including Canada?
From researching the UoF standards there?

I'm unimpressed by any mystery Canadian 'sooper seekrit special training' story.

Canada is no different from the US in that real police simply do not have the spare time to become proficient at hands on tactics, and they need to rely on every tool at their disposal, A Superman complex will get you hurt up there just as fast as down here.

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:41:51 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterslena

trust me...i know that excellent self defense is taught in the USA as well as Canada...based on what Alumbrado stated though, a reader might assume that police there get little more than basic training! no one expects 'average cop joe' to be a super cop, but if an officer remembers his basic training he should be able to subdue a suspect easily without using excessive force...especially a smaller female...the officer was in his own police detachment afterall and had other officers in close proximity if needed...

:)




For centuries a cop with a baton has been able to handle pretty much anything that came along in the course of their duties.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:45:20 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I think that's exactly the problem.  Tasers are being overused because cops are being led to believe that they're a non-lethal and consequence-free solution to any problem.  They're not non-lethal and they're rarely the best solution to a problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

Its supposed to be a nonlethal weapon, lets keep it that way

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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:45:40 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

"...but if an officer remembers his basic training he should be able to subdue a suspect easily without using excessive force..."




"For centuries a cop with a baton has been able to handle pretty much anything that came along in the course of their duties. "



Nice TV fantasy... there is no such magical training,which is why so many people were hurt in the process of using batons, boots and fists, leading to the need for other tools to do the job (even if imperfectly).

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 11/29/2007 10:47:18 AM >

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