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RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:50:53 AM

MsBearlee

Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

More 'polite debate'? Why don't you try a few facts instead? Or defend your 'crap spewing'on the other thread where you ran away after being caught lying?

Easier to for you to keep lying, slinging insults, sniping, and running away, than to deal with the truth apparently.

Gee, alumbrado... are you still going on about that? So, you actually believe that there were hundreds of kkk in EVERY community and that EVERY community conducted public lynchings by those people?

Of course the 'never' part was mine... it never happened; not then, not now. But there are plenty of pockets of hatred like yours and others. Do you also suggest that say...a Catholic church of today is not a Catholic church because it is 100 years since you think they were active to call a group? The kkk was then, as it is now...active; but no, not EVERYWHERE.

This is how you get yourself in trouble... and how your inability to read and comprehend well enough to keep up with a debate reduces you to childish tactics like calling people liars when you don't understand. It's a shame, really.

Beverly

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Post #: 41

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:51:56 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

More 'polite debate'? Why don't you try a few facts instead? Or defend your 'crap spewing'on the other thread where you ran away after being caught lying?

Easier to for you to keep lying, slinging insults, sniping, and running away, than to deal with the truth apparently.

Gee, alumbrado... are you still going on about that? So, you actually believe that there were hundreds of kkk in EVERY community and that EVERY community conducted public lynchings by those people?

Of course the 'never' part was mine... it never happened; not then, not now. But there are plenty of pockets of hatred like yours and others. Do you also suggest that say...a Catholic church of today is not a Catholic church because it is 100 years since you think they were active to call a group? The kkk was then, as it is now...active; but no, not EVERYWHERE.

This is how you get yourself in trouble... and how your inability to read and comprehend well enough to keep up with a debate reduces you to childish tactics like calling people liars when you don't understand. It's a shame, really.

Beverly

Let's say every court needs a jester

!

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Post #: 42

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:55:38 AM

MsBearlee

Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Let's say every court needs a jester !

Yeah, but to keep the gene pool strong, I think people who try to keep up when they obviously cannot...and then resort to calling people (over and over again) liars; should be deported, or hung, or shot or neutered or something.

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Post #: 43

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:57:00 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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That's over the top, MsBearlee. I think you're getting carried away. I suggest laughter in the face of harmless foolery.

Much less messy.

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Post #: 44

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:58:46 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

"...but if an officer remembers his basic training he should be able to subdue a suspect easily without using excessive force..."

"For centuries a cop with a baton has been able to handle pretty much anything that came along in the course of their duties. "

Nice TV fantasy... there is no such magical training,which is why so many people were hurt in the process of using batons, boots and fists, leading to the need for other tools to do the job (even if imperfectly).

If you *can be* hurt with a baton, and you *can be* hurt with a taser, what's the benefit of a taser again?

Shouldn't process be:

Verbal escalates into Physical Contact
Physical Contact escalates into Baton ( "Baton of Office", *prods*, Move along... Move along... )
Baton escalates into Taser/Mace ( Devices exclusively used for torture )
Taser/Mace escalates into Firearms ( Devices exclusively used to kill )

Since the Torture devices only benefit the manufacturers and the Totalitarian Police State proponents, I wonder exactly why we bother with them at all?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/29/2007 10:59:35 AM >

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 45

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:58:55 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

So, you actually believe that there were hundreds of kkk in EVERY community and that EVERY community conducted public lynchings by those people?

Of course the 'never' part was mine... it never happened; not then, not now.

I 'believe' that the links you ran away from prove conclusively that there were in fact millions of KKK members in the era I cited, and they were part of the open lynchings that took place.

Your defense of the Klan by claiming that such events and such membership never happened is noted.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 46

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 10:59:31 AM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

A pregnant woman was tazered on her neck. The vid is fuzzy, the cop says he couldn't tell she was pregnant but... she sure looked pregnant to me even through her heavy coat and child in her arms.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/29/delgreco.pregnant.taser.whio

He also forced her to the floor....

i will admit that i couldn't really tell she was pregnant, but why tazer her at all once she was on the floor? Especially on the neck. i'm not even sure i understand why they tried to dentain her. The police chief doesn't address this, just says that an inquiry into the use of force is underway. Well, to me that's not enough. And it's disgraceful that this cop is still on duty while the investigation is conducted.

pinksugarsub

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Post #: 47

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:00:09 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

i will admit that i couldn't really tell she was pregnant, but why tazer her at all once she was on the floor?

To teach the bitch obedience.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 48

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:02:09 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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Imagine the debacle if cops had guns and used them unwisely.

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Post #: 49

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:08:42 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Here at least they have a requirement of certification to carry them. The cerfitication includes training from the Department of Health on the effects and unknown, non-visible health risks for people with certain types of medical problems/histories. Having observed that training several years ago, I am quite positive they are instructed here that tasers can be lethal.

I used to live in a smaller city with around only 30k population at the time, and before tasers the cops had large maglight flashlights. When they got into struggles they used themand/or the person they were attempting to detain used them and those things are pretty disasterous as a weapon. The chief of police there took them away and gave them smaller flashlights because of several incidents and because of the additional weight they were carrying. They have tasers now, but he's placed a heavy paperwork burden on them for every single use of one and they have had no serious incidents of health issues. They have detailed, written procedure for the use of tasers in only extraordinary circumstances. I'm sure all departments do, it is a liability issue to protect the tax payers.

Officers are trained, however, NOT to get in a physical struggle with people IF it can be avoided because of the access others get to their firearm when they do. Now, whether a pregnant woman facedown on the floor is such a risk is the question. They are also trained not to allow an agitated person or someone under arrest to return to their vehicle (previous thread and video) because of access to any weapons they might have there.

Unfortunately, not all police departments are that small and that well maintained/trained and accidents do happen and people take a risk when they resist that they will get injured. In that department merely being unprofessional to a citizen would result in consequences. He just did not tolerate it at all. He also did not tolerate others being rude to them in the political arena and supported them overall on a daily basis.

In my opinion those of you that repeatedly say that in every post about law enforcement that all cops are corrupt or wrong are, in my opinion, ill-advised and paranoid fools. These men and women do a job that NONE of us would do and the majority of them are comitted to what they do and yes, like all of us, they make mistakes occasionally in their jobs. However, a police department anywhere is only as good as it's management and accountability. There's always the possiblity of someone getting in that shouldn't be there even in a good department.

I would be willing to bet that the officer in this video did not follow the written procedure for that department when using this taser. Whether that procedure is actually enforced is again, a question of management.

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Post #: 50

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:10:52 AM

MsBearlee

Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

So, you actually believe that there were hundreds of kkk in EVERY community and that EVERY community conducted public lynchings by those people?

Of course the 'never' part was mine... it never happened; not then, not now.

I 'believe' that the links you ran away from prove conclusively that there were in fact millions of KKK members in the era I cited, and they were part of the open lynchings that took place.

Your defense of the Klan by claiming that such events and such membership never happened is noted.

Okay, kiddo...there is a difference between 'running away' and deciding to ignore your blatherings. You apparently cannot comprehend what 'EVERY' means; I wonder if I should call you a liar because you obviously believe 'millions' is the same as ALL.

Again...I'm done with you. There is no point in polluting this forum...

Beverly

edited to correct spelling and add:

To say that the kkk were NEVER in every community or that EVERY community did not endure public lynchings by those people is NOT the same as defending the kkk. I suspect even you know that... and are just twisting in the wind; as you are wont to do. I do NOT defend any aspect of the kkk....or any other hate-mongerer.

B

< Message edited by MsBearlee -- 11/29/2007 11:14:47 AM >

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Post #: 51

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:16:32 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

And yet you jumped in with both feet.

The problem in comprehension is your claim that the Klan 'Never' had that may members, or anything to do with the lynchings of that era. Finding some communities where the Klan only had 99 members, or didn't take pictures of themselves at lynching, does not equate to 'never'.

Why you are covering for the Klan is of course, your own business, and I would be just as happy of you didn't favor us with any more of your myths about how they weren't that bad.

(in reply to MsBearlee)

Post #: 52

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:18:21 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Imagine the debacle if cops had guns and used them unwisely.

Yeah, that's why the Totalitarian Police State *loves* tasers and mace. You can torture someone and not cause "Organ Failure".

I figure it's all over, given the SUPPORTERS of the Pigs saying shit like, "If she was obedient, she wouldn't have gotten tortured"...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 53

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:19:37 AM

ModeratorEleven

Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline

Ok folks, please chill this out or I will.

XI

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Post #: 54

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:20:21 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

never mind, 11 wins the speed round.

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/29/2007 11:21:39 AM >

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Post #: 55

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 11:57:44 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Imagine the debacle if cops had guns and used them unwisely.

Yeah, that's why the Totalitarian Police State *loves* tasers and mace. You can torture someone and not cause "Organ Failure".

I figure it's all over, given the SUPPORTERS of the Pigs saying shit like, "If she was obedient, she wouldn't have gotten tortured"...

Or "If you're innocent, you should be happy that the State pokes its nose in your personal affairs and eavesdrop on your personal conversations".

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Post #: 56

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 12:19:08 PM

MsBearlee

Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

That's over the top, MsBearlee. I think you're getting carried away. I suggest laughter in the face of harmless foolery.

Much less messy.

Well of course it was, silly. It was meant to be...as well as in keeping with the way those boys THINK!

Anyway...I got warned to stop it too. You're right, I got carried away.

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Post #: 57

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 12:28:30 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Have you considered that cops are just doing the best they can in a high-stress/high-risk job?
High risk they are not even in the top ten high risk jobs.

If they do their job, they're oppressive/untrustworthy/brutal...If they DON'T do their job, they're corrupt and/or a waste of tax-money!
As an occupation they have the highest rate of criminal behavior.

Deadlines aren't an abstraction to them, an IMMEDIATE decision is needed, or the suspect will either escape or hurt them!
And in a confrontation, SOMEONE is going to get hurt:
Are you saying that they are not bright enough to deescalate a situation verbally?

The policeman, the suspect, or some innocent bystander who has that whole "wrong place, wrong time" thing going!
I'd rather have more cops and fewer criminals than the reverse, any day of the week--and probably next week too!
What is wrong with having cops who just do their job and don't thug pregnant women.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/29/2007 12:36:34 PM >

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Post #: 58

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 12:55:08 PM

EPGAH

Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH
If they do their job, they're oppressive/untrustworthy/brutal...If they DON'T do their job, they're corrupt and/or a waste of tax-money!
As an occupation they have the highest rate of criminal behavior.
Well, with the choices I listed above, there ARE two more choices: Retire from the "force" and find a "private security" job with fewer rules, OR find the nearest mafia-type and jump into his pocket...

Deadlines aren't an abstraction to them, an IMMEDIATE decision is needed, or the suspect will either escape or hurt them!
And in a confrontation, SOMEONE is going to get hurt:
Are you saying that they are not bright enough to deescalate a situation verbally?
How? America has a seeming innate distrust/disdain of authority...If someone says to do X, then the response is "Make me!"
Some put it in other words, but that IS the underlying sentiment...But then if the cop DOES "make them", then he's suddenly the bad guy!

The policeman, the suspect, or some innocent bystander who has that whole "wrong place, wrong time" thing going!
I'd rather have more cops and fewer criminals than the reverse, any day of the week--and probably next week too!
What is wrong with having cops who just do their job and don't thug pregnant women.
They're TRYING to do their job! All the civilians have to do is let them, preferably with less "armchair quarterbacking", or as I called it on another thread, "micromanagement from afar"! With so many conflicting voices critiquing them--PRESUMABLY from a safe location--it's a wonder they get anything done! If you were in an unsafe situation, you would HOPEFULLY stop complaining about the police, 'cause that would be extremely ungrateful! Or they might just bypass you, as you consider them to be "the highest rate of criminal behavior"...THAT would be unprofessional of them, but they are just people, and people can get petty like that...
Or you could become a cop yourself; I'm sure you'd do a great job, UNLESS the criminal was an illegal, at which point, you'd look the other way, with or without a "gift"! (Which narrowminded people like me would call a "bribe")
As to the pregnancy bit, it's illegal for a job interview to ask if a woman is pregnant or will become pregnant...So how exactly is a cop supposed to broach the subject without getting sued for discrimination and/or sexual harassment, and/or some others I haven't even thought of?
In THIS case, the taser used as a stun-gun might have been overkill, but--movies aside--cops aren't issued spray-cans of anesthetic, perhaps because of its potential for abuse, and/or because a taser is reusable; chemicals aren't! (More of a "money" issue than an "environment" issue.)

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 59

RE: It just keeps happening, tazers. - 11/29/2007 12:55:13 PM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

If they do their job, they're oppressive/untrustworthy/brutal...If they DON'T do their job, they're corrupt and/or a waste of tax-money!

......what exactly is wrong with expecting them to do their job properly?
You do your job right, someones computer works. Don't do it, it doesn't. However, if police screw up then people suffer......it's not a question of turning a blind eye to police incompetence, it's a question of learning from it......and making whatever changes are nexessary.
Unlike you, the police are a service.....their only reason to exist is to serve society. Once an individual cop ceases to do that then they shouldn't be a cop any more. Period.

(in reply to EPGAH)

Post #: 60

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