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Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:43:58 AM

mistoferin

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Can you justify doing something that you know is wrong by saying you were only following instruction? Do you feel that it absolves you of your responsibility in it?

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

Post #: 1

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:46:12 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Short answer, no.

I am not a submissive, but just speaking as a person, I have been in the position of being asked to do things that I felt were wrong or unethical, and had to decide what got to give, my integrity or my job. My integrity will be with me forever, and I have to live with the consequences of my actions.

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RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:46:21 AM

sexyred1

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Are you talking about something like a "limit" that is "wrong" to you or something really wrong, like being asked to steal or being a co-conspirator to murder? It would make a big difference.

I personally would not hide behind anything since everything I do is my choice in life. I certainly would not let anyone "instruct" me into doing anything unethical or illegal. But being instructed to do something in the past that pushed me past a personal limit that I was was "wrong" and that I thought would never do, sure, I did that, but I don't consider it hiding, I consider that the nature of D/s, pushing through boundaries.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 11/29/2007 8:48:39 AM >

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 3

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:48:56 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Can you justify doing something that you know is wrong by saying you were only following instruction? Do you feel that it absolves you of your responsibility in it?

No.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:49:06 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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It wasn't a valid offense at the Nuremburg Trials. And no, I don't propose to be a "Good German" just following orders.

To me this is a moral issue and my morality does not approve of this. In fact, this is why I broke up with my college boyfriend. He believed that and I find it repugnant.

Peer pressure is not an excuse for my ums to do wrong either. Here we take responsibility for our actions. And if they can't stand up to others, they know to get out of such a situation by saying I'll ground them for a month or life! I have no qualms being the bad guy and they have found this to be an effective strategy.

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Post #: 5

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:50:18 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Can you justify doing something that you know is wrong by saying you were only following instruction? Do you feel that it absolves you of your responsibility in it?

Absolutely not. That is why I will never call myself no-limits.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 6

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:54:40 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Can you justify doing something that you know is wrong by saying you were only following instruction? Do you feel that it absolves you of your responsibility in it?

No.

This kinda reminds me of the "limits" discussion going on right now. No, I am not absolved of my responsiblity because I choose to follow an order that I know is wrong.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 11/29/2007 8:55:22 AM >

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RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:55:26 AM

Missokyst

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No. I am responsible for my choices, my actions, and the consequences that ensue.
Kyst

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 8

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 8:59:58 AM

DiurnalVampire

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Can you justify doing something that you know is wrong by saying you were only following instruction? Do you feel that it absolves you of your responsibility in it?

I had a female submissive a long while ago that thought that way. She believed that, right or wrong, if she as doing it to please me it was OK. This included (I found out after the fact... I did not encourage this behavior and I dimsissed her for it) stealing to make sure she had gifts for me rather than explaining that she was low on money. It included taking it upon herself to discipline anotehr sub who was mine because she believed I would have been upset with something she did. Unfortunately, there are people who really think that pleasing the Dominant is more important that doing the right thing.

For most, though, it would be an excuse once they were caught. The devil made me do it defenses never have held up, but thats what this would be. As a sub or slave, your still have to have morals and a sense of right and wrong.

DV

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VampiresLair

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 9

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 9:04:57 AM

toservez

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No. My Master does not own my value system.

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Post #: 10

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 9:24:59 AM

Maya2001

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From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
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NO and I have had to do it already once. In this case it was sub for hire, it was not something I even considered as a BDSM activity nor ever dreamed of it being asked of me therefore did not include as a hard limit

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Post #: 11

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 9:42:40 AM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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This is a vague question.

If I very clearly, explicitly tell my girl I need her to buy one type of oil for our car, and she 'knows' we need another kind, I expect her to voice her dissent. If I tell her "I've heard your concerned, now do what I told you to do" I expect her obedience. She may 'know' it was wrong for our car, but later when she sees I'm actually changing our neighbor's oil, she'll realize otherwise. Sure, I could have explained I'm changing our neighbor's oil not ours, but she's not entitled to that information.

If I tell her to murder her sister, then clearly that is going to force her to do something beyond her moral code. I expect she would refuse, and probably terminate our relationship in the process. Thus, being 'right' or 'wrong' is far less important than obeying one's moral code. In this, if our moral codes were incompatible, it's unlikely we would be in, or continue a relationship.

Stephan

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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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Post #: 12

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 9:48:29 AM

mistoferin

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In reading a few threads here I have found instances where sub/slaves recounted something that they did under the instruction of another that many people replied they felt were wrong. Just as an example, exposing unassuming people non-consensually to their kink. Certainly not limited to that example though. When others questioned or gave their opinions that they felt these actions were wrong, the answer seems to always be along the lines of "I was following orders" or "I was doing his will" and as a sub/slave "following his instruction/will is my only concern, that is my only responsibility". To me, that seems to suggest that they detach their own responsibility or shift that responsibility to the Dominant.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 13

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 9:57:20 AM

RCdc

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You know me erin, I don't believe there is such a thing as 'consensual relationships' - so exposing other people to anything we do is going to occur or touch others lives regardless. So to that extent I have the thought that most people hide more behind the word 'consensuality', rather than behind domination or dominant.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 14

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 9:59:29 AM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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That's simply being brought face to face with the choice to obey, and maintain the relationship as it is, or disobeying to follow a value system knowing it might terminate that relationship.

If I tell my slave to stand on her head and squawk like a chicken for half an hour on her lunch break, it would be a tricky issue. She wouldn't be fired for it, but it would make her co-workers think she's strange. She can choose, then, to make them uncomfortable with her bizzare behavior (going against her value system) or she can disobey me (also against her value system.) We're faced with complicated moral choices all the time; it;s the story of a man faced with his mother and wife drowning, who does he save first?

Saying "I did it because I was told to" doesn't relieve one of responsibility for what they do; it simply indicates that she valued her obedience more importantly than adherence to her personal inclinations. In fact, I think many submissives seek such relationships, so that they may throw off what they perceive to be the shackles of society telling her she shouldn't behave in this way or that; no few women I've known needed permission to enjoy sex, for example. Their value system says "you shouldn't enjoy sex." It isn't a conscious choice, it's a subconscious impulse. Being given permission to enjoy sex is the only way they find any sexual fulfillment. Thus, what we feel is wrong (i.e. enjoying sex) isn't always actually wrong.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 15

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 10:03:49 AM

charlotte12

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never mind....i can't think straight this morning

< Message edited by charlotte12 -- 11/29/2007 10:05:04 AM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 10:25:26 AM

velvetears

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This is how serial killers get women to assist them in their evil endeavors. Most of the woman, after they are caught, calim they were "just following orders" and were brainwashed or intimidated in some way. That doesn't wash with me (i'd be a terrible judge). i do think everyone should be accountable for their own actions, have their own moral compass to direct them, and do what their own sense of integrity will alllow them to. i think it shows lack of character to do something and not own up to it by blaming someone else (he made me do it) - BS.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Post #: 17

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 10:28:40 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Can you justify doing something that you know is wrong by saying you were only following instruction? Do you feel that it absolves you of your responsibility in it?

Nope. I always have the choice to say no. If I say yes; I do so knowing that I had another option.

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

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Post #: 18

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 10:30:58 AM

Kana

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Nope.
Responsibilty always lies within.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 19

RE: Hiding behind domination - 11/29/2007 12:45:20 PM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Can you justify doing something that you know is wrong by saying you were only following instruction? Do you feel that it absolves you of your responsibility in it?

I would do what I was instructed to do and take responsibility for it.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 20

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