RE: How Do I Become a Slave?

RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 4:58:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bandit25 I agree with Level...See? No quarreling here [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m16.gif[/image] She's smart! [:D]

fsub4use -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 5:41:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Whomever wrote that text appears to have had some notion of what a slave is, but he also has some notions that are incorrect. 1. The contract idea is ludicrous. 2. The suggested option of making a slave do something against his or her nature is plain stupid. 3. The suggested option of making a slave do something for which he or she is not suited is plain stupid as well. One cannot use a plow horse to race and one cannot use a racing horse to plow. Well, one can, but it would not be even a tiny bit smart. 4. This text is all about the slave. What about the responsibilities of the owner? This text suggests an owner that is not responsible for the well being and optimum use of the abilities and talents of his slave at all - someone, therefore, who is unfit to be an owner. What Rule said... nods, applauds, and blows kisses to Rule

salilus -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 7:42:54 AM)
quote: If your Owner makes a mistake, you will get punished for it. And if you have an owner that does this, regularly, you should kick in him in the shins. A lot.

DesFIP -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 7:51:21 AM)
Copying someone else's plagiarism doesn't make it right. As far as the article goes, malarkey. It reeks of 'one true wayism'. A slave has the rights granted to them at the time they started the relationship, and any other rights negotiated at any other time during the relationship. And the slave has the right to renegotiate or walk. Life changes, just because you agreed to run four miles daily doesn't mean he can demand you do so with two broken legs. Plus just because the 'master' says he has these rights doesn't make it so. Him take her paycheck and have her lose her home? Him demand she sign over her home or her inheritance? He could demand it but he better be prepared to be told no. Or sued for the return of all plus damages when the relationship does break up. And stuff taken by coercion will not be considered a gift. Because if it was a gift, the the gift tax would have been paid at that time. And contracts aren't one sided like this. They outline responsibilities and rights on both sides.

Level -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 8:26:34 AM)
*slave: one that is completely subservient* to a dominating influence. What does "completely subservient" mean? Whatever we want it to? Is one a slave, until they don't want to be, anymore? Can a slave say "fuck this", and get up and walk out the door? own: to possess. If we own something, does that mean we own it until we, and we alone, decide otherwise? Would we be better served to describe some as "slavish", rather than "slave"?**

MrSpectacular -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 8:56:31 AM)
I think you can promulgate all of the written rules you want - but at the end of the day you are entering into a human relationship and we are flawed and not consistent. My advice would be to throw out the rule book and work things out in a fun and interesting way that actually develops into the relationship you both want.

Level -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 9:03:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrSpectacular I think you can promulgate all of the written rules you want - but at the end of the day you are entering into a human relationship and we are flawed and not consistent. My advice would be to throw out the rule book and work things out in a fun and interesting way that actually develops into the relationship you both want. A lot of truth there.

Padriag -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 9:20:19 AM)
Articles and debates like this are examples of why I've largely, in my own personal thinking, thrown out preconceived notions of what submissives and slaves are. Over the last year I've increasingly simply used the term "companion". It seems to me that often the objective difference between a "submissive" and a "slave" ends up being trying to split some very fine hairs. Subjectively, these words have personal meanings to various individuals, and those meanings are just as varied which does not help foster communication. If I say I want a "slave", what does that really mean? Unless you know me personally and the details of what sort of relationship I want you at best only have a vague idea of what I might mean. My "slave" might be someone else's "submissive" and yet another's "switch" or "free companion". For me personally, I've reached a point where I no longer care what terms are used. I still tend to use "slave" and "master" simply because those are terms I've long used out of habit... but a word of warning, don't assume you know what those words mean to me until you know me. For the most part what I seek is a companion, with specific qualities and traits... among which include a degree of submissiveness I find palitable. At some point in the future, when time allows, I plan to rewrite my profile to better reflect exactly what sort of companion I want. Submissive, slave, switch, role playing, real, twue... yawn. I couldn't care less about these words anymore... in my not so humble opinion what matters most are the people behind these labels, who they are, what they want, their sincerity, their goals, all the varied things that affect a relationship.

Level -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 9:28:11 AM)
Well said, Padriag.

osocurious -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 9:28:28 AM)
Ok … I’ve read the OP … then went to RLslavery.com I’ve spent unbelievable amounts of time pouring over the threads here in CM, Truthfully … All of it makes my head swim, and at the end of the day … hurt!! In trying to figure out if there’s a path that might be right for me … I find that rather then encouraging O/one to “test” the waters ... all the reading and arguing actually creates a genuine feeling of …"back away from the possibilities of a D/s or M/s lifestyle quietly but deliberately” respectfully ~ oso ~ edited to include ..... I REALLY like what You just said Padriag. Excellent Words there!!! Thanks for that post

AquaticSub -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 10:03:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: salilus quote: If your Owner makes a mistake, you will get punished for it. And if you have an owner that does this, regularly, you should kick in him in the shins. A lot. I think if you have an owner that does this, you don't have an owner, merely a child playing.

sexyred1 -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 10:10:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag Articles and debates like this are examples of why I've largely, in my own personal thinking, thrown out preconceived notions of what submissives and slaves are. Over the last year I've increasingly simply used the term "companion". It seems to me that often the objective difference between a "submissive" and a "slave" ends up being trying to split some very fine hairs. Subjectively, these words have personal meanings to various individuals, and those meanings are just as varied which does not help foster communication. If I say I want a "slave", what does that really mean? Unless you know me personally and the details of what sort of relationship I want you at best only have a vague idea of what I might mean. My "slave" might be someone else's "submissive" and yet another's "switch" or "free companion". For me personally, I've reached a point where I no longer care what terms are used. I still tend to use "slave" and "master" simply because those are terms I've long used out of habit... but a word of warning, don't assume you know what those words mean to me until you know me. For the most part what I seek is a companion, with specific qualities and traits... among which include a degree of submissiveness I find palitable. At some point in the future, when time allows, I plan to rewrite my profile to better reflect exactly what sort of companion I want. Submissive, slave, switch, role playing, real, twue... yawn. I couldn't care less about these words anymore... in my not so humble opinion what matters most are the people behind these labels, who they are, what they want, their sincerity, their goals, all the varied things that affect a relationship. Totally agree, I am also sick of definitions, labels, generalizations, realisms, true-isms, blah blah blah. Individuals, unique traits, being special in your own relationship, developing it is as two people see fit, that is all that matters, nothing else at all. Even from an intellectual standpoint, these discussions become boring.

subspace08 -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 4:21:32 PM)
When I first read this article( I am pretty sure It was at rlslavery.com) it really helped me understand the slavery vs sub question. This article is how many lifestylers define slavery. I have met many slaves and this is their reality. Why is this important? It is important because someone can say "slave" and come up with a million different expectations and points of view as to what this means. No way should an article dictate the way an individual chooses to express their slavery. That would be rather Gorean. HOWEVER articles like this do help define a reality- and a reality must be defined before it can be changed. This article should be first read and if your idea of "slavery" deviates then it comes time to discuss it.

Lumus -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/2/2007 9:03:08 PM)
side comment: Is a Dominant male with a high sex drive a slave to his cock? [8D] If so, shouldn't half of the Doms here change their label to switch? [:D]

eyesopened -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/3/2007 2:04:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi it is about giving up control - 100% control - over your life to someone else permanently. Once a contractual slave: you are complete and total property, and there's no way to change that after the contract has been finalized. What i want to know is what happens when the slave is, say, 85 years old and trying to bring hot tea to the Owner while using a walker and maybe a slight case of Parkinson's..... i'm guessing that the Owner would just take the poor slave out to the back yard and shoot her when she is no longer pleasing to keep around. Since she can never change her status, then what is the meaning of the word "permanent"? Sound either totally illegal (consentual or not) or totally fantasy.

Level -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/3/2007 3:37:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened quote: ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi it is about giving up control - 100% control - over your life to someone else permanently. Once a contractual slave: you are complete and total property, and there's no way to change that after the contract has been finalized. What i want to know is what happens when the slave is, say, 85 years old and trying to bring hot tea to the Owner while using a walker and maybe a slight case of Parkinson's..... i'm guessing that the Owner would just take the poor slave out to the back yard and shoot her when she is no longer pleasing to keep around. Since she can never change her status, then what is the meaning of the word "permanent"? Sound either totally illegal (consentual or not) or totally fantasy. Then the use of the word "slave" might not be appropriate? [8\|]

EclipseAbove -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/3/2007 5:00:06 AM)
I think Solinear has it about right on the issue of real slavery - it is illegal and immoral. But for whatever reason, we in the BDSM community have decided to arbitrarily divide submissives into two groups and call one group slaves even though there isn't any slavery going on (at least I hope not). To make matters worse, we didn't bother to define slavery when we decided to misuse the term (nice job on our part - go us!!). So, there isn't a right or wrong definition of BDSM slavery, because right or wrong according to what or who? As for the article presented, I think it presents one very clear and detailed definition of BDSM slavery that is about as close to real slavery as you can get without breaking any laws. It is complete, well written and leaves no abiguous areas or terms undefined (at least none that I saw). An excellent job that clearly someone spent quite a bit of time thinking through. And a very necessary item for a community to have (I'm assuming it is for a web site/community). It ends the constant bickering about "slave vs. sub", "you can't define my slavery", "my definition > yours", "twue", "real", etc, etc, etc. It didn't say that people who considered themselves slaves and didn't meet that definition were somehow less-than. Rather that they didn't meet that particular definition, which they don't.

AquaticSub -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/3/2007 5:06:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EclipseAbove And a very necessary item for a community to have (I'm assuming it is for a web site/community). It ends the constant bickering about "slave vs. sub", "you can't define my slavery", "my definition > yours", "twue", "real", etc, etc, etc. It didn't say that people who considered themselves slaves and didn't meet that definition were somehow less-than. Rather that they didn't meet that particular definition, which they don't. If they are still slaves even though they don't meet that particular definition, how is having this document needed in the community and how does it end the bickering? If it's just one viewpoint, as I believe, then the bickering doesn't end at all because there will continue to be plenty of different viewpoints.

DesFIP -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/3/2007 9:16:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: txnights05 The OP asked "What do you think?" I would find it a lot more helpful if the responses were along those lines instead of finding fault with the OP. Perhaps a discussion of your different POV's on the topic of slavery would be more productive. What parts of this article do you agree with, which parts do you find fault with? I am new to posting on these boards but i have spent a lot of time reading them. My first impression is that a lot of people here seem to quarrel and belittle more than discuss in any meaningful manner. For someone like me who is looking for information, interested in learning and wants to hear all opinions, it is sometimes a daunting task. Hang out here for a while and you'll get to know who poses sensible questions and who doesn't learn no matter how many times they do the same thing and get exactly the same response while being surprised at that response every time. Like walking into a door and being hurt every time but never remembering the door is there and you need to stop and turn the knob first. Besides we have posted sensible responses. Anything from the fact that we are moral people who do not submit to others who steal copyrighted material, no difference than stealing your purse or robbing a bank. To the fact that the article ignores the reality of people refusing to agree to a power relationship unless they can trust to the word of the dominant. And that if the dominant says there will be no sex with others, a month later collars her and demands she has unprotected sex for money with him being the pimp, that she'll walk because: she has the responsibility to watch out for herself; because he's proven himself an untrustworthy liar; because he's risking her life and her freedom. We also pointed out that contracts are between two parties and require that both parties need to negotiate what they will and won't do and that both parties need their needs met. Oh, and welcome to the zoo.

EclipseAbove -> RE: How Do I Become a Slave? (12/3/2007 10:21:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub If they are still slaves even though they don't meet that particular definition, how is having this document needed in the community and how does it end the bickering? By community, I meant only the poeple on that website. Not the entire BDSM community. The idea being that in their realm, slave is defined as in the document. If you don't agree with their definition, don't visit their realm. Bickering in that realm is now ended. I've heard of similar things being created for high-protocol clubs. If somehow the BDSM community as a whole were to somehow create a similar document and everyone agreed to it, that would end the bickering everywhere. Of course that will never happen since it simply isn't pratical.

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