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Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 5:17:14 AM

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By Glenn Kessler and Anne KornblutWashington Post Staff Writers

A former senior aide to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice disputed Bill Clinton's statement this week that he "opposed Iraq from the beginning," saying that the former president was privately briefed by top White House officials about war planning in 2003 and that he told them he supported the invasion.

Clinton's comments in Iowa on Tuesday went far beyond more nuanced remarks he made about the conflict in 2003. But the disclosure of his presence in briefings by Rice -- and his private expressions of support -- may add to the headaches that the former president has given his wife's campaign in recent weeks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/28/AR2007112802485.html

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 5:44:01 AM

pahunkboy

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try as I might cmm stains are hard to remove

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 8:27:38 AM

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Did you try calling Monica Lewinsky?

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 8:30:26 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

By Glenn Kessler and Anne KornblutWashington Post Staff Writers

A former senior aide to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice disputed Bill Clinton's statement this week that he "opposed Iraq from the beginning," saying that the former president was privately briefed by top White House officials about war planning in 2003 and that he told them he supported the invasion.

Clinton's comments in Iowa on Tuesday went far beyond more nuanced remarks he made about the conflict in 2003. But the disclosure of his presence in briefings by Rice -- and his private expressions of support -- may add to the headaches that the former president has given his wife's campaign in recent weeks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/28/AR2007112802485.html

If I'm reading this, the person making the claims WAS NOT AT THE MEETING she pretends to know the content of?

She's going to need to provide a Transcript for her claim to be verified, otherwise, she's just a Political Operative with a Political Agenda and NO PROOF OF HER CLAIM.

It's the lack of proof, that's so offensive.

quote:

She recalled being told that Clinton made it clear to Rice and Abrams that they could count on his public support for the war if it was necessary.

So, Rice and Abrams LIED TO HER is the most likely scenario.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 12/2/2007 8:32:03 AM >

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 8:37:53 AM

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I wondered about that too, fb, but no one on either side seems to be denying it much; George Stephanapolous (sp???) said Clinton was definitely "revising" things, and he certainly isn't on the Right side of things.

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 8:50:47 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Actually there are several documented statements by Bill Clinton, that he supported the war in the beginning. Now if he changed his mind on that support, that is fine, everyone changes their minds based upon new information. Unfortunately that is not what he said, he said he opposed it from the beginning, which is completely inaccurate. Whether he was in those meetings or not, his statements from 2003 are on the record with Time, NYC Times, and other places.

I am just wondered why he phrased it like he did, because it makes him look like a liar. Also, I thought he was supposed to be keeping a low profile, so that the spot light could be on Hillary Rudy-Clinton........ doh..... I mean Rodham-Clinton.

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 8:53:40 AM

servantforuse

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Bill Clinton sounding like a liar ? Say it ain't so, Joe...

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 8:56:08 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I wondered about that too, fb, but no one on either side seems to be denying it much; George Stephanapolous (sp???) said Clinton was definitely "revising" things, and he certainly isn't on the Right side of things.

The real gripe is, "What legitimate journalist would publish this?"

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 9:02:32 AM

farglebargle

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Here we have the AFP digging up some of those direct quotes.

quote:

Then, in March 2003, days before the invasion, Clinton pointed out in an article in Britain's Guardian newspaper that Saddam Hussein had flouted a UN Security Council resolution giving a final chance to disarm.

"Now it appears that force will be used to disarm and depose him," Clinton wrote, in an article which came across as implicit backing for military action against Iraq as a last resort after the failure of the diplomatic process.

In a subsequent speech in May 2003, Clinton said he supported Bush's decision to ask Congress to "stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."

He supported DISARMING Hussein of the WMD the Bush Administration lied to him about.

I wonder if the Bush Administration would prefer Bill Clinton to state:

"Condaleeza Rice and Elliot Abrams LIED TO MY FACE about Hussein being a threat."

This *COULD* be interesting.

It *WON'T* be interesting, because this is all part of the planned and scripted show which pass for "Elections" in the USA.

But it *COULD* be interesting.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 12/2/2007 9:03:32 AM >

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 9:20:59 AM

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But didn't Clinton and Gore see Hussein as a threat, and as probably having/developing WMDs before Bush ever got into office?

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 9:22:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
I am just wondered why he phrased it like he did, because it makes him look like a liar. Also, I thought he was supposed to be keeping a low profile, so that the spot light could be on Hillary Rudy-Clinton........ doh..... I mean Rodham-Clinton.

A case of "speaking before thinking", I wonder.....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 9:39:35 AM

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http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29026

" The Times went on to claim that around the time of the invasion, "Clinton did not precisely declare that he opposed the war," though he "has said several times since the war began that he would not have attacked Iraq in the manner that President Bush had done"

Clinton added: "So that's why I thought Bush did the right thing to go back. When you're the president, and your country has just been through what we had, you want everything to be accounted for."
Remarks like these should be referenced when a political figure attempts to dramatically recast his record. But establishment media go out of their way to avoid questioning powerful politicians, especially presidents: "You can't say the president is lying," as New York Times reporter Elisabeth Bumiller once proclaimed (Extra!, 1-2/05).

I would have to say that Clinton is attempting to revise history.It`s not good,because there are people who will now argue the revision,and will forget what really happened.

What`s driving this story,IMO,is a desire to share and shift blame,for the worst foreign policy blunder since Viet Nam.
This person, speaking about meetings she didn`t attend,is the interested party here.

Note:When Clinton lied,no one died.

The papers of record have given George W. Bush license to eliminate well-known events from the recent history of Iraq, claiming of Saddam Hussein (7/14/03): "We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in." As FAIR pointed out (7/18/03), in fact, after a Security Council resolution was passed demanding that Iraq allow inspectors in, they were given complete access to the country; their well-publicized search for the non-existent WMDs was ongoing until four months before Bush's claim. The Washington Post (7/15/03), describing Bush's remarkable statement, could only say that his assertion "appeared to contradict the events leading up to war this spring."
Bush has repeatedly made the same claim (1/27/04, 3/21/06, 5/24/07, 11/7/07; see Consortium News, 11/9/07), with little or no note taken by the news outlets that chronicle his every move. "Historians will wonder someday how a free press permitted the world's most important official to say such things without contradiction," Salon's Joe Conason reported (3/31/06).
When politicians are allowed to get away with making such bold misstatements, it can only serve to embolden others to do the same, since there would seem to be no downside to lying. Indeed, at a Republican candidates' debate in June, presidential hopeful Mitt Romney offered his own version of the weapons inspector lie, to little media note (FAIR Action Alert, 6/8/07). Perhaps the press was just treating him as they would if he actually were president.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Question: Where is the outrage by the super-patriots, over Bush lying?

Note(repeat):When Clinton lied,no one died.

I know that`s old and worn out,but it refreshes every time a GI dies.

ACTION:
Ask the Washington Post and New York Times why their reports on Clinton's misstatement did not more forcefully challenge his record on the Iraq War.
CONTACT:
Washington Post Ombudsman
Deborah Howell

New York Times Public Editor
Clark Hoyt

[Mod Note: email addresses and telephone numbers removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 12/2/2007 10:14:03 AM >

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 9:59:30 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

But didn't Clinton and Gore see Hussein as a threat, and as probably having/developing WMDs before Bush ever got into office?

Whatever "threat" they considered Hussein, wasn't so severe that they committed fraud to secure an Iraq-AUMF.

That's why Bush is directly responsible for the million dead and the trillion wasted.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 10:12:28 AM

Griswold

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I'd like to say here and now, I was against the reduction in salt in most foods before I was for it and I will not accept the nomination for President if it is offered.

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 10:16:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

I'd like to say here and now, I was against the reduction in salt in most foods before I was for it and I will not accept the nomination for President if it is offered.

I nominate Griswold for POTUS...

Anyone second that?.......

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 10:39:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

I'd like to say here and now, I was against the reduction in salt in most foods before I was for it and I will not accept the nomination for President if it is offered.

And are your ties to the sodium lobby going to be made public?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 10:54:27 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Fast reply:

Something is just being either glossed over, or ignored on purpose. Clinton stated he opposed it from the beginning, which is an inaccurate statement. He should have said, he supported it, but found out later it was false, or unreliable information. Based on the new information, he no longer supports it. That is not what he said though. I cannot for the life of me figure out how he could make such a bungle. Now the question is, did he intentionally lie, or not state his position clearly? Guess this is another distraction from key elements, but if he did intentionally lie, it reflects poorly on that camp.

Damn, is there anyone running that speaks clearly to the issues they support, and have supported? Someone who is not afraid to say "I fucked up, but now with new information, I change my position, and will redeem myself for the mistake I made." Seems many candidates on both sides, are talking out of both sides of their face.

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 11:18:28 AM

Owner59

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It may be that they are all human and have complicated,involved feelings and ideas about issues.

Some things are not so cut and dry,black and white,etc.

Question:

How many of us knew of the Sunni/Shia rift?Or that this would be a problem?How many of us considered the neighbor states,and their religious/political/military influence?It`s the very complicated interactions and relationships,that influence the region,that we need to get into,and understand.

Problem is,it won`t fit on a bumper sticker.As soon as it goes more than two sentences,people`s eyes glaze over.Plus there`s some very clever cats out there,looking to trip people up and play "gotcha".It`s no wonder they speak to anyone.

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 2:14:03 PM

OrionTheWolf

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It is not a matter of him changing positions, I can respect that alot more than if this is a lie. I just listened to the clip from his speech and he says he supported Afghanistan, but opposed war in Iraq from the beginning. That is alot more than complicated feelings. he should have spun it a different direction, rather than seem like he never supported it.

Yes there are clever cats, so why would someone that has his political experience, outright tell inaccurate information? I see no problem with someone saying that they supported it in the beginning, but now that more information concerning the situation is available, in hindsight they should have opposed it. Then they can clearly state the points that have changed.

The complicated relationship of the region has nothing to do with him saying he opposed the war from the beginning, when he in fact supported Bush and made statements to that fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

It may be that they are all human and have complicated,involved feelings and ideas about issues.

Some things are not so cut and dry,black and white,etc.

Question:

How many of us knew of the Sunni/Shia rift?Or that this would be a problem?How many of us considered the neighbor states,and their religious/political/military influence?It`s the very complicated interactions and relationships,that influence the region,that we need to get into,and understand.

Problem is,it won`t fit on a bumper sticker.As soon as it goes more than two sentences,people`s eyes glaze over.Plus there`s some very clever cats out there,looking to trip people up and play "gotcha".It`s no wonder they speak to anyone.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? - 12/2/2007 2:27:01 PM

Owner59

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I won`t defend Clinton on this.He should answer to this,at the very least.We should let him explain himself.

I`m just saying that things are way more complicated then we`d like.Though we crave straight talk and candor,we may not always get that.

We won`t always get a consistent line or policy.Just look at Bush policy,it changes with each faze of the moon.

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