RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/20/2007 4:12:04 PM

LadyEllen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ladyE or at least the economy was revitalised incidental to his coming to power.
I took this to mean that you thought that pre 1933 the German economy was recovering.

No. It means that the economy may have begun to perform better at that time, whether or not Hitler had come to power - due perhaps to wider economic forces in the world or perhaps to things happening in Germany itself which were not necessarily directed by Hitler.

E

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/20/2007 5:06:14 PM

seeksfemslave

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The point has been made that Germany only recovered as a consequence of preparations for War.
This is not true but paradoxically is true of the United States

LadyE: your distinction there is too fine for me. lol
Classic economic solutions ie reduce government spending allow "the market" free reign and lower taxes were actually making things worse.
Hitler did the opposite wrt spending and the market.
He thought he knew best. He did as well !
Keynes advocated similar solutions. Not sure what date.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 12/20/2007 5:14:53 PM >

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/21/2007 12:20:51 PM

philosophy

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I love wisdom too: if only I had more of it :-) .

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/22/2007 5:53:46 AM

NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

NG as far as the history goes, i think losing WW1 was a big factor in Hitlers rise to power.

Losing a war was not in itself the "big factor"; the implications of losing that war were significant, though. Germany laid claims to ownership of the European continent, and defenders of European high culture; their belief in this natural progression were a consequence of a) the largest ethnic population in Western and Central Europe and b) the 19th century belonged to England in material and status terms, but to Germany in terms of high culture - art, music, philosophy, self-expression - Germans expected the 20th century to be their's, rather than the American century.

Hitler was supported by militarists, industrialists, land owners and assorted conservative intellectuals because they believed he could achieve their desires. The philosophical spokesman for the Nazi Party was the conservative intellectual, Martin Heidegger; he didn't share all of their beliefs, but they held common ground in the core areas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Link that to the depression

Yes, in times of chaos, people turn to order.

Ultimately, an event can't be explained on the back of a war and economic depression - history and culture drive war aims, dreams and aspirations.

Have a think about England, 'suffered acute economic depression in the 1930s, but the Fascists made absolutely no in-roads, here.

Edited to add: the German Middle Classes didn't hold anything like the policital power of the English Commerical Classes in the 19th century, and therein lies the differing attitudes to politics and culture.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 12/22/2007 5:58:42 AM >

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/22/2007 6:07:28 AM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

NG
Have a think about England, 'suffered acute economic depression in the 1930s, but the Fascists made absolutely no in-roads, here.

I have often pondered about that . I just wonder if it was that maybe those upper classes who had their hands on the levers of political power treated the lower orders, who really bore the brunt of the deprivation, with utter indifference if not contempt.
Moseley who was fascist did have sympathy for the "workers" and forsaw that very little good for the UK would come from fighting Germany.
He was right on that point at least.

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/22/2007 6:29:25 AM

Lordandmaster

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Fast reply--

Yanno, Austria is a strange country. I know Austria pretty well. This is a country that voted for Kurt Waldheim, and yet denying the Holocaust is a crime there. Austrians want the world to believe that Beethoven was Austrian and Hitler was German.

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/22/2007 6:36:40 AM

NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I just wonder if it was that maybe those upper classes who had their hands on the levers of political power treated the lower orders, who really bore the brunt of the deprivation, with utter indifference if not contempt.

The political scene was dominated by the Middle Classes in England, and their primary concern was the freedom for individuals to chase business initiatives, i.e. excluding the state from interference in the economic sphere; it follows that a nationalist movement could not take root here, because of the implications for state coercion and group conformity.

The English legacy is the pursuit of individual initiatives, rather than a group movement such as fascism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Moseley who was fascist did have sympathy for the "workers"

It depends how you define sympathy, coercing them into rallying behind the flag is not akin to sympathy, in my book.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

and forsaw that very little good for the UK would come from fighting Germany.

England was caught between a rock and a hard place, war mongering was always a last resort for the English, but having the Germans camped on the North West French Coast, potentially hampering English trade, was a last resort scenario.

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RE: Holocaust denier goes to prison in Austria - 12/22/2007 8:15:46 AM

seeksfemslave

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WE are speaking of the depression in the 1930s

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I just wonder if it was that maybe those upper classes who had their hands on the levers of political power treated the lower orders, who really bore the brunt of the deprivation, with utter indifference if not contempt.

quote:

NG
The political scene was dominated by the Middle Classes in England...

Neville Chamberlain was educated at Rugby School

Stanley Baldwin was educated at Harrow.

Bonar Law left Canada to live with his late mother's three male cousins, who were rich merchant bankers .

Winston Churchill was born in Blenheim Palace

Middle Class ?

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