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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 5:53:58 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita
he always orders for me and pays, and because I live in the south I can call him Sir without anyone thinking it odd. Life is good.

Yes, I forgot to mention that He always orders for me as well and, just like you, we're in the South and it's not usually even blinked at when I say "Yes Sir" to Him. It is good, isn't it?

...........luci

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:02:31 AM

dawntreader

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Many here have answered about the "door" scenario so i will address this from a broader viewpoint.

i have been with Dominants that felt no need to perform publicly as society would expect and that is fine...as mist said, i have opened more doors for myself, paid for more meals, bought more "drinks", etc. for myself than have ever been bought/done for me. i am fine being dominant in society's arena. When a Dominant allows me independence in that area, he is allowing me dominance - it is still his choice of how much control he wishes to have.

However...when a Dominant takes over those "choices" that society views as gentlemanly protocol, it is definitely a "place-setter" for me. While i feel special and cared for by the actions, i also feel small, helpless and totally NOT in control. The subtle pressure of an arm around my waist as i am "guided" to wherever can be more effective than any leash i have worn. And the examples can go on and on so i won't bore anyone here with them...

If anyone i have been with has done it out of an obligation to look gentlemanly in society, they have hidden it well~

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:06:45 AM

Driver1961

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He dips to all,

My woman is my Precious publicly and afforded all 'old' societal benefits that show to her (not to others) that she has my utmost respect by my actions.

Privately she is my slut and shows I have her respect by her actions.

In Public Lifesyle situations, I do as my whimsical personality takes me and my woman complements this. (Our behaviour is my expectations based upon what is complimentary to our needs- not to the expectations of other Lifestylers).

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:08:50 AM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

I like this question. I know the answer....at least for me. lol.

I am a male Dom. I am a sadist as well. I am also an Old Bastard. I am many other things that also describe what I am and what I do. Above all else, I am a gentleman....usually. I am not sure if it makes me seem like less of a Dom, but I really don't care. I am secure enough in what I am and do, that others opinions really don't matter that much to me. Women are to be treated as ladies until the prove otherwise. In my upbringing, it is the polite thing to do and it is how I prefer to conduct myself. I think women are very special and should be treated as such, with no regard to their place in our lifestyle. They are to be protected as well.

Besides....they have boobs.

I like an old school gentleman myself. being a lady is part of my submissiveness. When i got in touch with my submissive side I began to wear skirts and heels and stockings regularly. It made me feel like a woman and men like it too. So if I am doing all this to make a Dominant happy and this in turn is bringing out his manly nature and protectiveness why wouldnt i expect to be taken care of and appreciated in those little ways? There will be many things done for him as well. It is still give and take as any good relationship. I do tend to seek out the Dominants with a Princely stance.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 12/7/2007 6:09:47 AM >

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:15:30 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

i have been with Dominants that felt no need to perform publicly as society would expect and that is fine...as mist said, i have opened more doors for myself, paid for more meals, bought more "drinks", etc. for myself than have ever been bought/done for me. i am fine being dominant in society's arena. When a Dominant allows me independence in that area, he is allowing me dominance - it is still his choice of how much control he wishes to have.

Now see, I don't look at it as a dominant or submissive action though. It's just something that needs to be done and if I don't do it; well, then someone else will.

Having a door open for me does not make me feel more submissive or less in control; it just means that someone else got to the door first. The same in reverse; opening doors for someone else does not make me feel in control; I just got there first.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:30:25 AM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita
he always orders for me and pays, and because I live in the south I can call him Sir without anyone thinking it odd. Life is good.

Yes, I forgot to mention that He always orders for me as well and, just like you, we're in the South and it's not usually even blinked at when I say "Yes Sir" to Him. It is good, isn't it?...........luci

I was ouraged by this in my younger and "feminist days". Now I love it. I like for a man to pay. I dont make alot of money. If he does, then why should I create hardship for myself. Also, when out to eat, I am bombarded with indicisiveness with too many choices. If I tell my Dominant what things I like and he makes the final decision then he is making my life easier and that takes away stress of all the decisions.

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Post #: 26

RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:38:59 AM

smilezz

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Morning Kyra *grinz*

How i was taught growing up and how it is/was AS i was growing up is entirely different. I don't expect to have my doors opened for me, i don't expect to have my dinner paid for...that! is how it is. On the other hand, it's very nice that Thorns already does all those things. I don't see it having anything to do with how society perceives it though, i see it as Him being Him.

There is Structure in place
There are codes of Honor
There is pride in doing

All of these things are in Thorns' House......it makes up how we live.

I also believe that most people know exactly how I feel about what society thinks about how Thorns and i choose to live our lives. If i have opened up a door for Him or paid for dinner.....it's only because He allowed that.

Happy Last day of work Kyra!! and.......HAPPY FRIDAY!

~smilezz~

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:41:24 AM

dawntreader

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

i have been with Dominants that felt no need to perform publicly as society would expect and that is fine...as mist said, i have opened more doors for myself, paid for more meals, bought more "drinks", etc. for myself than have ever been bought/done for me. i am fine being dominant in society's arena. When a Dominant allows me independence in that area, he is allowing me dominance - it is still his choice of how much control he wishes to have.

Now see, I don't look at it as a dominant or submissive action though. It's just something that needs to be done and if I don't do it; well, then someone else will.

Having a door open for me does not make me feel more submissive or less in control; it just means that someone else got to the door first. The same in reverse; opening doors for someone else does not make me feel in control; I just got there first.

Very true mist and technically, i don't see it as a D/s action in the default world. i was just speaking in terms to the Men i see...i don't date in the default world, only in the kink world so i was just answering from THAT viewpoint. For me, the more control taken from me in regards to things i have spent most of my life doing for myself...does hit that cord of submission/smallness in me - i am only speaking for myself as always

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 6:56:44 AM

cinnia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

Many here have answered about the "door" scenario so i will address this from a broader viewpoint.

i have been with Dominants that felt no need to perform publicly as society would expect and that is fine...as mist said, i have opened more doors for myself, paid for more meals, bought more "drinks", etc. for myself than have ever been bought/done for me. i am fine being dominant in society's arena. When a Dominant allows me independence in that area, he is allowing me dominance - it is still his choice of how much control he wishes to have.

However...when a Dominant takes over those "choices" that society views as gentlemanly protocol, it is definitely a "place-setter" for me. While i feel special and cared for by the actions, i also feel small, helpless and totally NOT in control. The subtle pressure of an arm around my waist as i am "guided" to wherever can be more effective than any leash i have worn. And the examples can go on and on so i won't bore anyone here with them...

If anyone i have been with has done it out of an obligation to look gentlemanly in society, they have hidden it well~

Excellent post! Thanks dawntreader!

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 7:00:40 AM

breatheasone

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My Master/Daddy and I are probably an oddity. He and I are almost vanilla in the way we relate. Meaning, He asks my opinion a lot, and makes His decisions based on what we both want. He puts no restrictions on my speech...only that I be respectful. There isn't anything I need to ask for permission to do before hand. (well cut my hair, He'd have a COW if I cut my hair) He holds my doors open...gets the car door...(I love this BTW

) He pays for dinner. He treats me like a Lady, a partner, a mate.

Peoples motives are a HUGE big deal to me. I in no way shape or form would want anyone to do something for me because its expected. If they don't want to do whatever...I don't want them to do whatever.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 7:35:16 AM

OldBastardly1

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I also like input from my sub. We both know who makes the final decision, but I like to hear her thoughts. she is a very smart person and I value her opinion. I assign her duties, such as what I eat, our social obligations, many communications, etc., BUT...I monitor AND have veto power. If she was a moron, I would not have an interest in her.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 7:58:26 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Submissives, would you want your dominant to do these things and their only motivation is not to appear ungentlemanly or cheap to others?

My Daddy enjoys being chivalrous, he really does not care what other people think about it. He opens doors for me when no one is looking. He buys me things when no one knows. He treats me well all of the time because he desires to. And that is one of the many things I love about him. I do not think that these actions are submissive, I think of them as being dominant, but I know where the historical code of chivalry comes from...and why women were treated that way under it... because they were seeing as the weaker sex and seen as needing protection.

If he did not want to do these things, he wouldn't.

He is also extremely polite to others, which is something I find incredibly sexy. He holds doors open for anyone coming behind him, and so do I. He says "thank you" and "please" to everyone... He isn't submissive to these people either. Courtesy and politeness are things one does because they want and desire to be a polite person, for me it has nothing to do with how others perceive me, it is how I perceive myself.... and politeness is not a submissive or dominant thing.

Lately I have been carrying everything we need when I go down to his place, not out of an act of submission, but because his elbow was injured in a work related accident. This has nothing to do with being submissive to him, it has everything to do with him being someone I love and want to help heal.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 9:07:38 AM

DesFIP

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He opens all the doors. Not because somebody in the parking lot next to us would announce loudly how rude he is, but because he was raised that way. He also gets an incredibly positive reaction from me, because to me it feels protective and that pushes my submissive and sexual buttons, and he likes the response he gets.

I'm supposed to walk next to him, preferably hand in hand. And I do so everywhere except huge stores like Home Depot because you can't walk hand in hand with those carts abandoned in all the aisles, and also because I never know where I'm going so I need to stay behind him to see where to turn. He knows where he's going and he hurries straight there with those much longer legs so even if I did know where I was going, I still can't keep up! If he wants me to keep up while dodging carts and abandoned merchandise then he needs to tell me we are going 8 aisles down and all the way back.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 9:52:14 AM

laurell3

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I can answer that for both my partner and myself (although I doubt I'd be as humorous). His simple answer would be HELL NO. Mine would be that I don't actually think he could appear ungentlemanly or cheap or anything else to me because of what others think of him.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 11:06:35 AM

astarri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Submissives, would you want your dominant to do these things and their only motivation is not to appear ungentlemanly or cheap to others?

Congratulations on your last day. You must be very excited as the day draws near.

No i would not want to be with someone who thinks they should do it because they have to. I want to be with someone who gives up their seat on the bus to a pregnant woman or an elderly person because they think it is important.
I wouldn't want someone who scrambled ahead of me to open the door or anything else forced though i think it is nice when he opens the doors for me. I would not be offended if he didn't because yes i can open a door myself. It does make me feel nice though when he does.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 11:11:10 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

Dominants do you do certain things with your submissive only because society expects it? An couple of examples are, open a door for your submissive or pay for dinner when you take her out. In general, society tends to expect the male to perform certain tasks and if not then you are not a gentleman or you are cheap or any other number of negative characterizations.

I doubt if anyone could make a compelling case that today's society demands such mannerisms.

When I do them, they are an example of control, since I am the one who chooses to be courteous, especially in a D/s situation.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 2:18:24 PM

MasterFireMaam

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I don't THINK I do this. I go with what I want and what we have agreed upon. For example, my girl is older than me...almost old enough to be my mother. I have her open doors for me. It gets looks because it's a female opening another female's door AND because the older woman is doing it for the younger. We notice, but don't particularly care. I also have mine still call me Ma'am in public.

I try very hard to be Real. This means living with integrity and a degree of transparency. Not hiding who I am is important. Not shouting who I am is important, too.

"...because once you're Real, you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand." - Skin Horse to Velveteen Rabbit.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 2:45:55 PM

DarkDaddyZ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I just have to ask this question; I have a pretty strong gut reaction to it and I am hoping to hear differing opinions.

This question is more in terms of male dominants and female submissives, but I am sure it could be flipped around a bit to include female dominants and male submissives...

Dominants do you do certain things with your submissive only because society expects it? An couple of examples are, open a door for your submissive or pay for dinner when you take her out. In general, society tends to expect the male to perform certain tasks and if not then you are not a gentleman or you are cheap or any other number of negative characterizations. If you do these things, it is because society or others expect it of you or it is because that is really what you want to do? If you don't do these things, it is because you don't want to do them or is it motivated out of a desire to do the opposite of what is generally expected?

Submissives, would you want your dominant to do these things and their only motivation is not to appear ungentlemanly or cheap to others?

Hopefully that is clear; I have to go to work and wont' get back to this until later.

Knight's Kyra

~ as smilezz says, Happy Friday everyone; it is my last day of work!!!

I've done things as a Dominant that I felt was "right" or what I saw in the community and said if Master or Mistress so and so does this, then I'll do this and you'll do this for me. Things I've seen within the BDSM society.

Outside that society, I've probably used some basic "gender roles" during the courtship.

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 4:14:40 PM

denika

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I would actually be dissapointed if his actions were just based on what he might think other's perceive.

Depending on the situation, or just what is more handy (my hands full etc) both Rob and Dale will open the door for me, it's also just something they do naturally, I try to get to the door first but if I don't he usually just goes in, or will wait until I get there and open the door, but the actions are done out of desire to be nice not what other's expect. I've snuck the check once at dinner *S* I payed for that later in a diffrent way *s*

Wolf's denika

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RE: Society's Expectations - 12/7/2007 4:17:35 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Since this is the season I will say that I do take my partner to work events to socialize because it's socially expected that
a) good employess go to their work functions
b) normal people bring their known monogamous partners to official functions

So it's purely pragmatic to be perceived as a good employee and raise their sense of normal security about me.

Otherwise really, no, not with my partner. I do lots of things on my own that ARE socially pressured- but it's either because I think they serve a useful purpose or make me feel good.

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