Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Do we part?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Do we part? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 12:07:21 PM   
Magistrar


Posts: 16
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		I am not so eloquent in trying to explain in detail, I know what I want to say, getting it out in a manner in which other people understand is often difficult.

Our problem isn't purely a financial issue. Sometimes we get swamped underneath an amalgam of issues that we cant see the root of them but you know that what you are experiencing are symptoms. Your insights have helped me see what IS at the root of our problem. I do feel that my submissive is having a terribly hard time accepting new responsibilities (as far as his job is concerned), dealing with his gruelling work schedule & when he gets home has difficulty letting it go. I had set chores for him to do on a daily basis & he enjoyed the structure/regime of these disciplines. When the job started & he worked very long hours, he was mentally & physically exhausted upon returning home, so to help him (or so I thought) I took on many of the necessary chores, loosening the reins regarding discipline (nothing like making a rod for one's back!) & in by doing so we lost our structure. He feels I am not positively harnessing his submissivness, & he is right, I'm not. I am just lost at what to do & what practical steps I can take to help him do what he needs to do - for him, for us, for me, but without taxing him anymore than he already is. Weekends are fine, he's fair game & his ass is all mine!

Discussing it with you & everyone else that has taken the time to offer advise has helped tremendously. I am gaining new perspective about our situation, things I hadn't thought of previously & it has given me so much to think about.

When he comes in the first thing he does is get naked & puts on his collar as soon as he has greeted me correctly. It takes him a good two hours to wind down, in which time he will discuss his work. I think the more he talks about it, the more wound up he gets but it is important for him to have an outlet. He just doesn't realise that the outlet is ME. He doesn't enjoy talking to me in the manner in which he does, he knows it upsets me & it does him too. Perhaps I should  make stapling his lips together part of his coming home ritual!
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
Ah, I see.  I misunderstood that part of things.  Thank you for explaining--that is a bit more complex than I initially thought.

If it isn't purely a financial issue, it may just be that he is finding it difficult to make a difficult life transition in general?  He's gone from being fairly powerless in his vanilla life to a phase where he has to develope and exercise some power.  Being a working professional forces him to exert certain emotional strengths on the job.

Maybe he is finding it difficult to reconcile the new "working man" identity he has to create at work with his DS identity at home?  Especially if he is being given too much control over how dominant you feel.

If work involves a lot of pressure and responsibility, it may be that he needs a much stronger symbolic break with that life when he gets home in order to feel any relief.  As I understand it, this is why some submissives strip down to nudity or change into some sort of "slave" uniform when they lock the door behind them at the end of the day.  It is a symbolic act which helps them shed the expectations of the vanilla world and enter the DS world which is, in many respects, very real--but sometimes as difficult to reach, emotionally, as a fantasy kingdom in a looking glass. 

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 12:16:14 PM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Magistrate, I see, the clarifications make it easier to understand your situation.  Wallowing, as you stated, can be ugly, but hey, we've all felt the need to do it, myself included.

Counseling might be a good idea in this situation, then.  And Shakti has a good point, the idea of a ritual upon arriving home may be a good one.  I'm also in a job that is high stress, and decisions I make can mean the difference between someone getting hurt, or worse.  I've developed ways of handling the stress on a minute by minute basis at work.....one has to....but also need to blow off some when I get home.  My poor cats have heard more crap about humans than any animal should ever know, that's for sure!  My only concern is that you state he is internalizing it to the point where he feels the need to strike out at the first thing, often you.  And the term "strike out" is not meant as a physical thing, just a phrase.  A ritual may be just what he needs to help him through that release.  At the very least, being able to openly vent about it will help him.....getting him to open up may be hard though based on your description.

Also, I apologize if my comments about any financial options offended you, it was not my intention.  I only pointed them out, since most of us folks who have always had the means of supporting ourselves just don't know about options out there.  And I fully understand the whole "THE job"......I have been out of my career field a few times over the years, and know how much I missed it, and was actually miserable at the jobs I had.  But fate has a way of coming thru in the end.....it's just that the trip there can sometimes be a total bummer!

I too am one that hates to toss in the towel....I'll exhaust every option first, but at least you know that you tried.  I wish you luck in what steps you take, and hope the outcome is one that is the best for both of you.

Damn...took too long!  Disregrd what sounds like a repeat to your post above....gotta type faster I guess! 

< Message edited by soultoshare -- 12/7/2007 12:18:07 PM >

_____________________________

This is where I should say something witty.....well, "SOMETHING WITTY!"

**********************************************

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.



(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 12:26:25 PM   
Magistrar


Posts: 16
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		Soul, nothing of what you said has offended me, you gave some very good practical advice. I just hadn't worded myself clearly enough rgarding my situation.

I'm going to look into some kind of meditative ritual he can do upon coming home to try & alleviate his stresses, or perhaps just getting his gloves on & punching out his frustrations.

I do believe in fate/karma, whatever happens will be for the best & it wont be b/c of lack of effort/commitment.

Thank you for your best wishes, they're very much appreciated.

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 12:26:56 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magistrar

Hi Laurell, my submissive is very comfortable with his submission & his role. I think ShaktiSama was spot on when they mentioned a change in dynamics brought about by my present economic circumstances, ie until very recently I was the financially secure person, independent & self-reliant. We have discussed this & I feel he may be reacting on a subconscious level to my present circumstances & perhaps views them as a weakness, likely because it is an unpleasant reminder of his former circumstances. I need to focus on once again becoming independent & restoring the status quo.
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Sometimes when submissives challenge and insult it's because they are uncomfortable with their own submission and role.  Could this be the case?

Regardless of the reason for the behavior one cannot live happily in a situation with another where they pick on your weak points which are obviously sensitive issues.   Counseling is a good idea as you have put alot into this relationship and love him.  However, being emotionally healthy and taking care of yourself is also important.



Well you obviously know your situation better than anyone here.  However, explaining my viewpoint: if my partner lost his job, it would not in the least diminish my viewpoint of him or make me think he was less dominant.  I chose him as a person that I care about, not his job.  I would remain submissive to him regardless of economics or any one problem he was having as that's the nature of our relationship.  My submission is not predicated on him being financially secure or not having problems in his life, his strength is the person he is, not any one thing.  If anything, him struggling would make me want to give/serve more, rather than less.

However, it seems I am in a much different position than your sub.  I have a career that is very assertive and demanding.  I'm not even remotely close to submissive at work  I have learned to balance the two most of the time, when I have a hard time making the mental change, I follow his lead.  I am not reliant upon him financially and we do not live together. I am comfortable in my role as a submissive as I've had it for almost a decade.  This was what I was trying to point out.   It wasn't negative about him.  Learning to balance vanilla vs. nonvanilla and how our role fits in it can be difficult.

The problem however that concerns me about your posts is that you seem to be willing to accept that this is somehow all your fault. You lost a job, it happens, we all have bumps in life.  Belitting, being rude, berating and insulting you on the very things you are sensitive about cannot be explained away by his change in life and are not acceptable.  People generally do those things when they are afraid or threatened.  There's no amount of talking in the world that would make that ok for me.  Even as a submissive, if my partner did this when he was stressed he would need to change it pronto or I would walk out the door and vice versa. 

Communication of saying I'm frustrated, I'm tired, I'm not sure how my role or out relationship fits here with these changes, I'm not following because you're not leading....etc. is alot different than beating you over the head with your failures. Everyone gets crabby, bitchy, stressed, grumpy occasionally.  I found myself apologizing repeatedly for that just last week.  However as a continual style of communication it's a serious problem that has nothing to do with your job or lack thereof in my opinion.

Then again, I could be wrong, it's happened before.  Either way, I would not respond well to my partner accepting blame for my bad behavior personally.

Edited to add: because you posted while I was typing, I wanted to add that I tell myself I need to be less sensitive about issues as well, however, we're always going to be sensitive about some things that we are working on or feel badly about, everyone is.  Your partner dealing with those subjects very carefully and being supportive is the much more likely way to resolve the issue than you attempting to not feel the way you do about it, even if it is irrational. 

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 12/7/2007 1:24:34 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 1:02:52 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magistrar
It takes him a good two hours to wind down, in which time he will discuss his work. I think the more he talks about it, the more wound up he gets but it is important for him to have an outlet. He just doesn't realise that the outlet is ME. He doesn't enjoy talking to me in the manner in which he does, he knows it upsets me & it does him too. Perhaps I should  make stapling his lips together part of his coming home ritual!


  I know this was only meant as a joke, but as one of many possible ideas it is worth considering!  I have had more than one male friend over the course of a lifetime who was a trained martial artist and/or ex-military, often with DS tendencies and a wealth of highly trained, sometimes very deadly aggression to deal with.  I often don't have any kind of sexual relationship with these men, but as a confidante and close friend I have learned that when they need to vent, in order to "wind down", I cannot allow them to "wind up" during the process.  If I do, any positive benefit to "venting" goes out the window.

If I see a building spiral of anger/frustration happening, I sometimes go straight into their personal space and destroy it.  I ease the tension and disperse the energy by gentle physical intervention--stroking, touching, etc..  I make jokes, make them smile, remind them that they are no longer in that bad place or with that bad person.  Basically, my guideline is to watch for the signs of adrenaline.  If I see any veins starting to pulse, I know this man is winding up rather than winding down, and it's not doing him any good.

If dispersing the energy means changing the subject, we will.  Sometimes there is nothing to be said which will change the situation or make it better or more bearable.  In those cases, the greatest gift in the world is just to get it off your mind for however long you can... 

The thing about a lot of these annoying people or situations is that your man will often have to face them every day, regardless of what he does in his free time.  And sometimes, when a dominant means to "help" a submissive who faces an emotionally/physically exhausting job, he or she does exactly the wrong thing.

By doing household chores, you sometimes deprive a submissive of a meditative exercise that helps him to feel that he is putting his world in order.  Washing, drying, and putting away a dish or setting a house to rights in other ways can feel very much like setting the world to rights.  It's a way of reducing life to simplicity, driving out other concerns, and turning away from complex situations that may be impossible to resolve and focusing energy on simple problems that are easy to solve.

I know this is not true of every sub.  Might not apply to yours at all.  I'm just bringing up general thoughts, really.  I have known many subs who honestly needed their little tasks and chores each day--even if they were loathe to admit it or so busy/tired they could barely stand after work.  Performing those tasks was part of their happiness and sense of place in the world, so you could not do them any favors by taking them away. 

Just more thoughts.  This thread subject has given me a lot to think about today, that is certain! 

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 1:07:42 PM   
petpete


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		From a subs point of view i am sorry to say that he has lost Your control.. He may need to do some soul searching of his own.. Trusting younger people can be a problem at times as many of us have experienced.. Stop wasting Your time Magistrar and move on or else he will keep on hurting You. i'm sorry to say this, and i sympathize with You.

_____________________________

Chief: Max, you realize you'll be facing every kind of danger imaginable.
Max: And loving it!


(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 1:22:32 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magistrar

Tammyjo, I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding the force issue. He & I have discussed this & Ive made it plain that I am not willing to step outside the boundaries of our d/s relationship, & I'd consider forcing someone, who is non-compliant, stepping outside not only the boundaries of d/s but boundaries of a decent human being.

We have the rituals in place, he does adhere to most of them but we also have to allow for practicalities of our every day lives/encroachment of the 'outside world'. I would say those rituals are adhered to 85% of the time. I knowI need to be stricter with him, I admit I have been too lenient as this was his first d/s relationship & your advice about 'going back to basics' was great, thank you.

I know that it is going to be incredibly hard to get us back on track. I do feel that if he is willing to put in the effort & work with me, we can have a good chance of doing that. I will spend this weekend talking with him & will implement some new training techniques (for us both!) if he is willing to put in the effort.

I have taken steps to seek out a kink friendly counsellor, I have written to them today & awaiting their reply.



Good luck then, Magistrar.

I'm going to be without work here too until I get a position at another university -- hopefully these interviews in January will turn into more. One of the things I plan to do is to keep writing both scholarly and fiction to keep myself busy because I know that my own mood can affect my scene life or DS dynamic if I let it.

Perhaps if you find something else to do until you get a job you might feel your own power come back and thus be able to enforce your daily rules and rituals.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 1:31:39 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magistrar

When he comes in the first thing he does is get naked & puts on his collar as soon as he has greeted me correctly. It takes him a good two hours to wind down, in which time he will discuss his work. I think the more he talks about it, the more wound up he gets but it is important for him to have an outlet. He just doesn't realise that the outlet is ME. He doesn't enjoy talking to me in the manner in which he does, he knows it upsets me & it does him too. Perhaps I should make stapling his lips together part of his coming home ritual!



May I offer an observation?

If he needs and outlet to talk don't do it in such a close space to your DS space. He should not be naked and in his collar when he talks about the work stuff because it is making a stronger connection between work space and subspace or scene/DSspace.

There are several options.

You set aside one evening a week to meet somewhere for dinner where he can tell you about his job -- this gets it out of the primary DS space. I'd set a specific time and time limit plus place for this option.

He could start a diary and have an half an hour to write in it each day after work. No collar, no nudity, just writing, then come up, center and strip/collar.

He could get some friends and talk to them.

He could get his own therapist and talk to her/him once a week or so.

He could get a less stressful job.

The one thing I do not allow is for Fox to have a job that creates so much stress that it starts to interfere with our dynamic. His job was for a while and we made changes -- moved him to a different shift and got him talking about it in therapy. But it never became an excuse for talking to in any other way than what he was trained nor did it ever excuse our daily rules and rituals. I had to be tough on this cause it hurts to see the one you care about in emotional pain but for our dynamic it was necessary.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 1:54:10 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Magistrar, I can't possibly give advice on whether or not you and your sub should part.  If I could, and it would make you feel better, I would, but it wouldn't be very realistic.  In the end, only you and your boy can make that decision.

From what I read in the OP and the subsequent replies, there are some things lacking for a working D/s dynamic to survive.  One of these seems to be lack of respect, either by word or by deed.  Whether that's intentional or not is another matter.  You say he's following your directives about 85% of the time.  To Me, that's not a really high score card.  If he was an employee and only doing his job 85% of his time for his boss, he may still remain an employee, but I'd bet the boss would get a lot stricter.

I'm late chiming in on this part, but yes, it would certainly be My advice to get a job.  It was said in one of the replies that "money=power fetish"  That's not especially a fetish.  There is some truth to that.  If you don't have the power to make financial decisions, it's an area where you're powerless.  Granted, I understand what you said about having savings, but from what I've gathered, it doesn't seem like those savings are best channeled to actually living somewhere else.  You seem to know this, and I detect a hint of your sub knowing this.  Change it.  When your sub realizes that living where you are is an option, rather than a necessity, it might help you to regain power in this area.  Not to mention, it will help you to regain some of your general self confidence, which also seems to be lacking in your dynamic just now.

When We start to fear losing what We control, in a sense, We have lost some of that control already.  I'm sorry that this seems to be what is happening for you just now.  Whether you can take that control back or not is in your hands.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 10:55:25 PM   
Magistrar


Posts: 16
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		That all makes perfect sense, laurell. Men are wired differently than us ladies - he is wired very much differently than most people in any case, having known him for the period I have & lived with him but prior to living with I noticed certain behaviors, just in the way he interacted with people in general/me insofar as having difficulty in knowing when someone was joking, being very literal about things even during conversations where i, or a friend, had made it clear we were joking - He cannot seem to tell. He will often come across as being insensitive, even tho I know he isn't, he loathes being in social settings (1 on 1 for him only even to the point he will avoid Christmas with his family because it will mean having to be in the midst of anywhere from 12 people upwards. He doesn't share his emotions & he has cried just once in his life, when stressed he constantly rocks his legs, he will become 'focused' on something to the point it seems obsessive & I have come to the conclusion that he is mildly autistic even tho he has never been diagosed. So knowing that he is wired differently I do make allowances for him because I understand that he/I view the same scene 'differently'. He does not understand why he behaves in certain ways, he does not look down on me or think any less of me when we discuss our problems, his reactions to me are almost instinctual.
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Well you obviously know your situation better than anyone here.  However, explaining my viewpoint: if my partner lost his job, it would not in the least diminish my viewpoint of him or make me think he was less dominant.  I chose him as a person that I care about, not his job.  I would remain submissive to him regardless of economics or any one problem he was having as that's the nature of our relationship.  My submission is not predicated on him being financially secure or not having problems in his life, his strength is the person he is, not any one thing.  If anything, him struggling would make me want to give/serve more, rather than less.


I know you weren't being negative, laurell, & I did understand your point about some subs having difficulty understanding their role/coming to terms with their submissiveness. My submissive has never before experienced the challenges he now has, I can see he is struggling, he needs the structure that being my submissive gives him & only began to flounder when he started his job. He has yet to find his balance.
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3However, it seems I am in a much different position than your sub.  I have a career that is very assertive and demanding.  I'm not even remotely close to submissive at work  I have learned to balance the two most of the time, when I have a hard time making the mental change, I follow his lead.  I am not reliant upon him financially and we do not live together. I am comfortable in my role as a submissive as I've had it for almost a decade.  This was what I was trying to point out.   It wasn't negative about him.  Learning to balance vanilla vs. nonvanilla and how our role fits in it can be difficult.


I know that the lack of a job is my fault, I can not & will not accept responsibility for how he responds in times of stress but can understand where he is coming from, that doesn't make it right to talk down to me but knowing the way he is wired makes it understandable even tho very unpleasant to experience & certainly not OK. He has yet to make the distinction between my sensitivity & the situation I am in. He is not the only person having difficulty in this relationship, I am too & for the reasons I mention in my 1st paragraph. I once had a relationship with someone that has asperger's, if I commented that I was 'tired' from my day's stresses with my job his logical reasoning would be to answer "Go to sleep", he could not distinguish emotional/mental tiredness from physical tiredness & my submissive is very much like that too. I am trying to alter how my submissive responds to certain stimuli but it is a very long process, not just for him, for me too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3The problem however that concerns me about your posts is that you seem to be willing to accept that this is somehow all your fault. You lost a job, it happens, we all have bumps in life.  Belitting, being rude, berating and insulting you on the very things you are sensitive about cannot be explained away by his change in life and are not acceptable.  People generally do those things when they are afraid or threatened.  There's no amount of talking in the world that would make that ok for me.  Even as a submissive, if my partner did this when he was stressed he would need to change it pronto or I would walk out the door and vice versa.
 

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 10:59:04 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		That certainly adds some information that changes things.  It seems you are willing and able to work it out with him and I wish you good luck with that.  Thanks for the reply.

l

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 11:19:24 PM   
Magistrar


Posts: 16
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		How do you know it was only meant as a joke?  Like you, I am used to diffusing tension in people in general, in my own submissive I find it so very difficult because he internalises until he 'blows' & it is likely for the reasons I explained in my response to Laurell insofar as my submissive is likely autistic (apparently autism affects 1 in every 100 people). I hadn't thought about the autism aspect for a long time & like you, my voicing my concerns over his behavior (& how I respond to it also) has given me so much to think about.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
  I know this was only meant as a joke, but as one of many possible ideas it is worth considering!  I have had more than one male friend over the course of a lifetime who was a trained martial artist and/or ex-military, often with DS tendencies and a wealth of highly trained, sometimes very deadly aggression to deal with.  I often don't have any kind of sexual relationship with these men, but as a confidante and close friend I have learned that when they need to vent, in order to "wind down", I cannot allow them to "wind up" during the process.  If I do, any positive benefit to "venting" goes out the window.


You & I are a lot alike in that respect, I think the difficulty I have with my submissive is that I still cant 'read' him in a lot of ways as he does not typically respond as other men do in times of stress/emotional duress.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
If I see a building spiral of anger/frustration happening, I sometimes go straight into their personal space and destroy it.  I ease the tension and disperse the energy by gentle physical intervention--stroking, touching, etc..  I make jokes, make them smile, remind them that they are no longer in that bad place or with that bad person.  Basically, my guideline is to watch for the signs of adrenaline.  If I see any veins starting to pulse, I know this man is winding up rather than winding down, and it's not doing him any good.


That is another problem in itself. When my submissive is focused on something he isn't capable of changing the subject, he'll remain focused on it until he has fitted it into some kind of logical format. He's an animated computer!
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
If dispersing the energy means changing the subject, we will.  Sometimes there is nothing to be said which will change the situation or make it better or more bearable.  In those cases, the greatest gift in the world is just to get it off your mind for however long you can...
 

I had completely forgotten about his possible autism, I know generally speaking how he will react in most situations, I think the real problem (didn't see it until now) is how _  I  _ respond given that I'm a sensitive person & finding it overwhelming.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
The thing about a lot of these annoying people or situations is that your man will often have to face them every day, regardless of what he does in his free time.  And sometimes, when a dominant means to "help" a submissive who faces an emotionally/physically exhausting job, he or she does exactly the wrong thing.


I have noticed that he does thrive on routine, if he doesnt have routine it takes him out of his comfort zone & my stopping his ritualistic chores (thinking I was helping) is doing anything but help him, it is increasing his stress factors. You make an excellent point, ShaktiSama, thank you
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
By doing household chores, you sometimes deprive a submissive of a meditative exercise that helps him to feel that he is putting his world in order.  Washing, drying, and putting away a dish or setting a house to rights in other ways can feel very much like setting the world to rights.  It's a way of reducing life to simplicity, driving out other concerns, and turning away from complex situations that may be impossible to resolve and focusing energy on simple problems that are easy to solve.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Do we part? - 12/7/2007 11:25:15 PM   
Magistrar


Posts: 16
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		Good luck to you also, I sincerely hope the new year brings something positive from your interviews. I do realize now that it is important for me to do something, anything, until I get the job that I want/am qualified for. Voicing my problem has helped me gain perspective & so much food for thought has been provided from you & everyone that has responded to me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Good luck then, Magistrar.

I'm going to be without work here too until I get a position at another university -- hopefully these interviews in January will turn into more. One of the things I plan to do is to keep writing both scholarly and fiction to keep myself busy because I know that my own mood can affect my scene life or DS dynamic if I let it.

Perhaps if you find something else to do until you get a job you might feel your own power come back and thus be able to enforce your daily rules and rituals.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 12:06:43 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		A while ago there was a lengthy and absolutely brilliant thread here on Asperger's Syndrome = high functioning autism. I think it would be well worth a read for You Magistrar. If You can't find it in the links and the link wizard also known as Lucky Albatross doesn't post, I saved it as a big Word file. I'm going away in a couple of days for a week and will be offline then, so msg Me quick on the other side (ie via My profile) if You want the Word doc. I'll need a regular email addy to send it to as collarme won't attach Word docs!

That said, it really sounds as if he is being very manipulative ... I would call him a saboteur. Part of him wants something but the other part doesn't trust that it will happen so he sabotages it himself and then feels justified in believing that it wouldn't work. I lived with one for a LONG while, and felt more financially trapped than You ... I tried repeatedly to work things through, different ideas each time. Each time he seemed contrite, each time he promised to try, to change ... each time lasted a shorter time than the previous one! By the end, he was saying during the crisis meeting, "if You don't believe in me, then i won't be able to do it, and it will be all Your fault if i fail!" Yeah, right. That time it lasted about 3 days. I finally faced facts that the only way to My sanity, Master's sanity ... and possibly to his ... was to part ways. I don't regret it one bit even though things have been financially more difficult.  

I also picked up in an early post, that You said that physical punishments aren't working any more. Have You considered that's what might have partly got You into this mess? If a sub actually likes the physical aspects of play, and knows he will get them as punishment if he does wrong ... then You are creating a sub who deliberately does wrong to get what he wants! And it could be that he has had to get well beyond bratty into obnoxious in order to get what he wants out of You. Which is why, for Me, punishment is NEVER physical, and NEVER anything that the sub could construe as pleasurable or play. It's usually about withdrawal of some privilege or pleasure, it's about LOSS rather than GAIN. If You are determined to try again and go back to basics, it would be worth thinking about this. If this is Your first major problem then I also understand entirely why You would want to try to work through it if at all possible ... worth trying. But maybe learn from My mistake, and if it doesn't persist, then don't keep going back for second, third, fourth, fifth helpings of shit!

As for the power = work thing, as a sub, my Master has extreme difficulty getting employed in that He has had thyroid problems and is obese. He is on the same low-fat low GI diet as i am for my diabetes, i lose weight, He doesn't. It's incredibly frustrating, yet despite that, medically He is quite sound other than a back and knee problem (sports injury when younger). He generally applies for positions in retail, technical work, even call centres, where those injuries should not be an issue. Unfortunately would-be employers seem to take one look and assume fat = lazy and He never gets past the initial 5 minute interview. A great shame as He is actually very punctual and diligent, as He proved when on a work-for-the-dole program a while ago. For the 2 years W/we were in Perth, i was working as a University researcher and lecturer ... pretty high powered! But i never let that alter how i viewed Him. And He has always helped out around the house, for Him, that's only fair and He wouldn't be happy otherwise. However, since moving across country, the Uni work i was hoping would materialise hasn't in the quantity expected, and i have also found it hard to get various businesses etc established. i have felt a bit of what it's like to be Him, and it's not easy. So now He and i are working up a musical duo act, which while W/we both do the singing and playing, the running of which (ie getting gigs), will be His job. i think that's important ... NOT in any way for my respect for Him for that has actually only grown when i have seen the dignity with which He has handled continual insult and disappointment ... but for Him, because He wants to work! And while it won't have all the social benefits of "going into a workplace" every day, He will likely build up a network of contacts in the local music and entertainment industry and that will be good for Him too. And yes, this past year O/our D/s activities plummeted while W/we've been going through the separation from My sub-hub (W/we 3 were poly) and relocating across country. But while i might pine for a bit more play, (and i drop hints and when He has the energy He acts on them), the basis of O/our D/s is still rock solid. So don't lay all the blame/responsibility on Yourself over the job thing, if his head was in the right space to begin with, it shouldn't have made this much difference.

I do wish You a lot of good insight, willingness on both sides ... and yes, luck too!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 4:36:32 AM   
ShellyD


Posts: 207
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline 		What you have described here is more 'aspergers' type behaviour than autism, and yes, dealing with personal issues/stressors is extremely difficult for people trying to live with this syndrome. For some reason they seem to externalise the cause to being the fault of other person not them.

I haven't read past post # 30 so if others have covered this, sorry.

Edited to add, I should have read on as Maam Jay has picked up on this. Hi there by the way Jay, has been a few years since we communicated.

< Message edited by ShellyD -- 12/8/2007 4:39:29 AM >

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 4:57:29 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magistrar

if there's a further transgression of the same kind I support it with physical punishment. I dont want to have to keep going over the same ground, repeating correcting the same fault. A person either accepts their responsibilities or they dont.


But this is human nature. Dont you get that? Personalities dont change. My habits have always been my habits. I'm sure yours too. I was married to a man for 12 years that always apologized amd never changed. He left the marriage the same way he entered. You have to be willing to go over and over the same subject with someone or get out. Thats what I had to do.

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 5:18:11 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magistrar



I know that the lack of a job is my fault, I can not & will not accept responsibility for how he responds in times of stress but can understand where he is coming from, that doesn't make it right to talk down to me but knowing the way he is wired makes it understandable even tho very unpleasant to experience & certainly not OK. He has yet to make the distinction between my sensitivity & the situation I am in. He is not the only person having difficulty in this relationship, I am too & for the reasons I mention in my 1st paragraph. I once had a relationship with someone that has asperger's, if I commented that I was 'tired' from my day's stresses with my job his logical reasoning would be to answer "Go to sleep", he could not distinguish emotional/mental tiredness from physical tiredness & my submissive is very much like that too. I am trying to alter how my submissive responds to certain stimuli but it is a very long process, not just for him, for me too.
.
 


As a mother of a 9 year old boy with aspergers, I can tell you a few things about them, Not all are emotionless. My son is very sensitve and cries all the time. Too sensitive. He is also funny, What they seem to have in common across the board is lack of motor co-ordination(no sports guys here), not being able to decipher social cues- they dont read facial expressions wellor body language and they can be quite friendly but at inappropriate times when people are not seeking to converse. They have trouble with orginazation of their thoughts and physical space, think messy absent-minded professor. They have trouble with transitions of one activity to the next but structure is the best thing for them. But understand that they have trouble with transitions. My son gets services at school. A timer has helped him go from one thing to the next. Perhaps you should set a timer and say this is the amount of time you have for this task or this is how much time you have to talk about work. Also visual cue cards that remind him what his tasks are daily. Also rewards systems. I know my son is a child but to reinforce positive behavior he always responded to getting stickers. Maybe some adult equivalent would work for you? As far as your sub not changing behaviors, short tem memory can be difficult. Another issue with the aspergers person is sequencing of thoughts and speech.This affects how they speak they tend to stutter and talk in circles. It helps to give him questions where he has to answer 3 questions at a time.

On the positive side these neurologically non typical people are very bright. Think Einstein. he could not tie his shoes. But he contributed to our world.My son is a marvel at so many things. I only hope he can find one who can understand him and accepts him.

My advice is to first try some techniques to see if they help. The other is to always do whats best for you.Your sub should do the same._

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 12/8/2007 5:25:33 AM >

(in reply to Magistrar)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 5:33:29 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

That said, it really sounds as if he is being very manipulative ... I would call him a saboteur.


The asperger person is not trying to manipulate. It comes off that way. their wiring can make them indicisive and do a "push pull" behavior. Even at 5 months my son would throw his sippie cup and then cry because he threw it. he does alot of self defeating things even though he knows its only him that suffers and he always wants "one more chance". I am not a push over and it has become better with time. The behavior of doing opposite of what he really wants still persists but not to the same degree. it is his wireing. Change has occured but it has taken years of standing firm and learning on his part.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 12/8/2007 5:48:45 AM >

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 6:39:36 AM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		I would agree that much of the described behavior sounds like Asperger's syndrome, not merely autism.  I would add that while some people with aspergers talk in circles or become repetative, others really talk in a straight line of thought, but can't be diverted or let it go until they have said all that they want/need to say.  This is the case with my cousin.  He is articulate, but is far more talking at you than with you.  Information may be delivered in sound byte or a whole stream, but generally, to call something a conversation, it needs to go both ways.  In a person with Aspergers, conversation generally has to have been trained, because they don't pick up on social cues naturally.  In many cases, people desperately want friends and companionship, but the way they speak to others  makes people think that they are rude or at least odd.  I have known some adults who have very nearly gotten over this aspect, because they have learned social skills that they didn't pick up inherently.

Although men typically don't journal as much as women, I think he might if you ordered it.  Since he is not happy with how he is making you feel with his words, and you are not happy either, I suggest that he could write these things down instead.  He could decompress from work a bit by writing, not speaking.  I like tammyjos idea of this being separate from switching into sub mode, but sort of a transition between work and sub.  You could see if this works for you.  He might discover that since writing rather than talking is an order by his Dom, that he may already want to be in sub mode and that he would rather do it in his collar and naked.

I think that the fact you are seeing things in a new way due to this forum may help your relationship a lot.  The fact that he is unhappy about how is words are effecting you is also a good sign.  Of course I suggest getting a job, but I am not sure how avidly you are already working on that.  My husband was out of work for over a year and it was hard.  He discovered that looking for a job is a full time job and if you arent spending that equivalent in time and energy looking, it rarely happens.  Best of luck on that front.

I think finding a kink-friendly counselor might help both of you accurately express your needs and come up with ways to accomplish that together.  A non-kink aware professional probably isn't going to be getting the full story from you, and that won't help since part of the issue is with your dynamic.

Blessings on your Journey.  I hope you find what works soon.

< Message edited by beltainefaerie -- 12/8/2007 7:25:47 AM >

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 6:46:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, one should get a diagnosis, rather than simply imputing that, and if that be the case some other accomodations need also be made.  If it does turn out to be Aspergers contact Nephandi on this site, you may use my name, she is from Norway, has Aspergers, and is not too hard to understand, and can point you to tons of information.

Ron(ne) 


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to beltainefaerie)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Do we part? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109