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RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 10:42:29 AM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beltainefaerie

I would agree that much of the described behavior sounds like Asperger's syndrome, not merely autism. I would add that while some people with aspergers talk in circles or become repetative, others really talk in a straight line of thought, but can't be diverted or let it go until they have said all that they want/need to say. This is the case with my cousin. He is articulate, but is far more talking at you than with you. Information may be delivered in sound byte or a whole stream, but generally, to call something a conversation, it needs to go both ways. In a person with Aspergers, conversation generally has to have been trained, because they don't pick up on social cues naturally. In many cases, people desperately want friends and companionship, but the way they speak to others makes people think that they are rude or at least odd. I have known some adults who have very nearly gotten over this aspect, because they have learned social skills that they didn't pick up inherently.

Although men typically don't journal as much as women, I think he might if you ordered it. Since he is not happy with how he is making you feel with his words, and you are not happy either, I suggest that he could write these things down instead. He could decompress from work a bit by writing, not speaking. I like tammyjos idea of this being separate from switching into sub mode, but sort of a transition between work and sub. You could see if this works for you. He might discover that since writing rather than talking is an order by his Dom, that he may already want to be in sub mode and that he would rather do it in his collar and naked.

I think that the fact you are seeing things in a new way due to this forum may help your relationship a lot. The fact that he is unhappy about how is words are effecting you is also a good sign. Of course I suggest getting a job, but I am not sure how avidly you are already working on that. My husband was out of work for over a year and it was hard. He discovered that looking for a job is a full time job and if you arent spending that equivalent in time and energy looking, it rarely happens. Best of luck on that front.

I think finding a kink-friendly counselor might help both of you accurately express your needs and come up with ways to accomplish that together. A non-kink aware professional probably isn't going to be getting the full story from you, and that won't help since part of the issue is with your dynamic.

Blessings on your Journey. I hope you find what works soon.

Yes, that is why it is called an Autism Spectrum disorder. There is a vast spectrum and varying degrees of differences. You gave great advice.

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Post #: 41

RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 5:29:28 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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I am not qualified to comment whether your sub is any kind of autistic

But you need to know the truth behind his aggressive behaviour. You need to ask. Not guess.

Call the behavour out. Offensive and belittling behaviour has to be challenged.

Ask questions like "so what if I don't have a job? Why does that bother you so much?". You might discover that it isn't bothering him - it is bothering you. A bit of projection might be going on.

As others have said, find something - anything - useful to do all day. Volunteer in your industry until a paying job comes along. Do further study yourself.

Also be honest how his behaviour makes you feel. Say "when you snap like that, I feel upset. Have I done something to cause this?" It might have nothing to do with you!

Another good one when a disagreement starts is "are we having a power struggle over this? Why are you challenging my authority? Do you need some time out?"

Be pleasant but firm. The truth has to be told (and heard).

The dynamic seems to be that you (mummy) accuse him of being bad to you and he (naughty boy) says sorry it won't happen again....but it does.

No-one likes being made to feel guilty. His anger to you might be legitimate. Or it might be mostly in your own head. Either way the problems will dissipate (or be clarified) by talking about feelings.

Some Dominant women find it extremely hard to admit her sub is hurting her feelings and having impact on her confidence. It is disempowering to admit a sub holds the power to hurt you. Such women just snarl "My way or the highway! Next please" and then wonder why all their love relationships end quickly and badly.....and complain they cannot find a "good" sub

Good on you for having such courage and great personal insight. That will give you the power to turn this situation around IF that's what you want and he does too. Thats real empowerment

Any counsellor will start by asing you both why you came together in the first place. What attracted you to him (and him to you?). What has changed? Why? Do you really want your relationship back on track now ? Or do you want to separate amicably instead? Try to prepare your answers together in advance.

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Post #: 42

RE: Do we part? - 12/8/2007 5:42:34 PM

MaamJay

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[/quote]
Maam Jay said:
That said, it really sounds as if he is being very manipulative ... I would call him a saboteur.[/quote]
lusciouslips19 said:
The asperger person is not trying to manipulate. It comes off that way. their wiring can make them indicisive and do a "push pull" behavior. Even at 5 months my son would throw his sippie cup and then cry because he threw it. he does alot of self defeating things even though he knows its only him that suffers and he always wants "one more chance". I am not a push over and it has become better with time. The behavior of doing opposite of what he really wants still persists but not to the same degree. it is his wireing. Change has occured but it has taken years of standing firm and learning on his part.
[/quote]

Sorry, I can see how it looked as though I was implying that aspies are manipulative, that was not My intent. I wasn't attempting a diagnosis of Magistrar's sub ... I simply said I had a Word doc of the thread available (it's 75 pages, someone's already asked for it!). Then, by saying "That said," I went on with My answer as if the sub was NOT an aspie ... ie if he is, as some aspies term others to be ... an NT (neurotypical) ... then it sounds like he is a manipulative person who sabotages his own efforts! And I also take your point on personal change ... the hubby I mentioned also went through 12 years of marriage (must be THE number LOL!) without actually changing, despite saying he WANTED to the first night we met! Yet I have changed Myself from an introvert to an extrovert by a matter of exercising deliberate choices and stepping out and taking risks and doing it over and over and over until it no longer felt like someone else but felt like ME. So I know personal change IS possible ... but I also know that only the person can do it, they have to want to do it, but they also have to be prepared to follow through on the WORK of doing it, and that's where many fall down. If they could wave a magic wand and the work was done, they'd be so happy LOL!

Hope I've clarified that sufficiently! If anything, aspies are relatively non-manipulative because they are so damn direct!
Maam Jay aka violet[A] Edited to hopefully make the quotes boxing more obvious

< Message edited by MaamJay -- 12/8/2007 5:44:26 PM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Do we part? - 12/9/2007 12:01:09 AM

MsCfromMelbourne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Magistrar

...... I am deeply in love with my sub & we have lived together for 1 year altho known each other for three. We have been on an incredible journey but I feel we have reached the end of our road together. .........

What I have noticed is that he will treat me like that but does not do it to anyone else, outside our home he is laid back & everyone's friend, in our home he is aggressive to the point of nasty & it is isolated to me only, so it seems.

...... I want us to work this out, but dont know where to start. I would be grateful for any advise you can offer.

Thinking about your dilemma today, a different idea occurred to me

Could you be suffering from depression? Goddess knows, most women would after everything you have gone through: having your dream job snatched away, being out of work, your primary relationship suffering etc etc

Depression is an illness and it is very, very hard to have a loving relationship with someone who is depressed. Depressed people can only see the negatives in their relationships (and lives), not the positives. They find fault with the one good thing they have left going for them - those who still love them despite their illness.

Ironically (perhaps), it is usually the depressed person who leaves the relationship.

Only to then discover to her horror that escaping' the 'bad' relationship does not relieve the misery at all. The inital feelings of relief are short lived.

She might then desperately seek new subs to "cheer her up" and/or very volatile D/s relationships with lots of dramatic highs and lows, in an effort to relieve her depression. The former D/s relationship might even become a very toxic on-again, off again mess, making the depression only worse in the long run.

Depression is an insidious and even fatal illness if left untreated.

Of course you might be right that your D/s relationship is at the end of the road. I don't know you both but to be honest, from what you say, your partner sounds absolutely awful.

But then again, he must have (or had) some good points or you would not deeply love him, right?

Your partner might be feeling that he has lost the happy, confident, fun Domme/best friend/lover you used to be. He might be really bewildered and sad too - what has happened to you? He might be "walking on eggshells" when he comes home, not knowing if you will be your old (sexy and secure) self or this new needy, unhappy person.

I know it feels like all his fault you are losing confidence and not feeling Dominant (or even loved). I know you are willing to listen to him and take responsibility. But could this be no-ones fault? Depression is a terrible, terrible illness that can strike anyone at a low point in their lives (and this is a low point for you).

Why not see your MD? If you are unwell (not just unhappy), it would be very sad if you pushed your sub away even though he still loves you (in his own clumbsy, bewildered way) and you still love him. Depression does that to couples.

Apologies if this post is too personal or offensive. I have suffered from depression myself and my then partner could do nothing right. I tore the relationship apart in my own head and was ready to jump on him at the slightest provocation. Fights and sulking inevitably followed and it was all his fault. Why was he so nice to others and such a b*stard to me?

Now that I am in recovery, I am happy, confident and secure no matter what my new subbie partner says or does (and he does say and do some dumb things....like all men!). Happiness wells from within.

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 12/9/2007 12:31:33 AM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Do we part? - 12/9/2007 12:20:34 AM

ShiftedJewel

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I haven't read all of the replies but wanted to share something with you. I think I understand exactly where he is coming from.

My oldest daughter drove me nuts most of her life. One minute she was perfectly behaved and the next she was rebelling with everything in her. It was a fight from the time she started talking. No, she didn't have some disorder or something like that, I think she was maybe a little insecure but nothing more. It's just the way she was. I describe her as the "Do you love me enough to fight with me and still love me" type. She's grown and has a family of her own now and one day she called me and was telling me about the teenager that lived next door to her, how the kid was out of control... then she said "Mom, thank you for beating my ass, I mean it, thank you so much". For the first time I felt like a truly successful mom.

For him, I think all he wants is for you to put your foot down the second he acts up. Put your Domme panties on and give him that look followed by a stern "Excuse me??" I don't honestly think he is looking down on you because you are not working, I think he is behaving this way because you have lost your self esteem and you look down on you, he is just following suit.

As for you being unable to find work in the field you are qualified in? Perhaps you should start getting qualified in work that you can find in you area. Look for online classes, training siminars or entry level positions. Be more proactive and you may find your dominance coming back to you in waves.

Jewel

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Post #: 45

RE: Do we part? - 12/9/2007 3:37:17 AM

MissMorrigan

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Ms C, I am late coming into this discussion and have read all the contributions. There is so much advice and many good points raised, I think yours struck a chord and I have the feeling the lady in the OP is likely depressed but doesn't realise it. It's certainly something for her to think about. I also think her sub is 'acting out', he's watching her flounder and it seems as if it's greatly affecting him too, as you know, depression doesn't just affect the one person. As you have said, if she agrees with your advice, the best thing she can do is go and see her G.P. and deal with her depression, taking steps to regain her confidence and change her life. There is no shame in losing one's way, I'm sure most have been there where they have questioned themselves, I know I have in the past. We're fallible, evolving all the time, facing new challenges and opportunities, sometimes life for us is daunting especially when our responsibilities overwhelm us. Depression is debilitating, quite ugly and while I have been 'down' on occasion, I have never actually suffered from it, although have supported others through it and understand how it interferes with a person's decision making ability.

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RE: Do we part? - 12/9/2007 3:47:03 AM

MissMorrigan

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Jewel, I think yours and Mc C's advice is spot on. The sub in the OP sounds young and inexperienced, his Domme has pulled back (likely due to depression, only she can say if this is the case) and her sub is running with it, rebelling. I recognise it only too well in my own boy who has, on occasion, acted out and rebelled, testing the boundaries.

Magistrar, if you would like to write for some tips (I can only offer advice concerning my own experiences) you're more than welcome to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
For him, I think all he wants is for you to put your foot down the second he acts up. Put your Domme panties on and give him that look followed by a stern "Excuse me??" I don't honestly think he is looking down on you because you are not working, I think he is behaving this way because you have lost your self esteem and you look down on you, he is just following suit.
Jewel

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RE: Do we part? - 12/9/2007 6:03:34 AM

TNstepsout

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I'm late to the party too, but I just have to comment. I'm totally impressed at how supportive and helpful everyone has been. When I first read the OP I thought OMG! what a mess, but there was so much wonderful insight and advise that I think there's probably a lot of hope for this relationship now. Good job CM!

I just have a few observations. First of all I think having him talk about work for two hours when he gets home might be self defeating. It's allowing his mind to fixate instead of move on from the problems. Many people with high stress jobs enjoy submission as a way of shedding the burden of responsibility, as a means of stress relief and relaxation. He's not doing that when he comes home. Instead he's reliving the stress of the day for an extra two hours. This may be why he's getting frustrated with you, because he's looking to you to help him deal with all the new pressure he's under, but what you are doing isn't working. I suggest a rule that there is NO talk of work whatsover when he comes home, unless he specifically needs your insight/advise to solve a problem. That way if he talks about work, it is done so in a way that is problem solving and empowering, not just wallowing and obsessing on stressful situations that are beyond his control.

In terms of speaking to you rudely he needs to know that is completely unacceptable. He is sensing weakness in you and is testing you to find out if he can trust you to lead him. That is animal nature. We have to feel that the person leading us is strong and capable of doing so. It probably has less to do with the fact that you are unemployed and more to do with your own feelings related to unemployment that he senses as weakness. He needs to know that if he's upset or angry with you that he must discuss it with you in a calm rational manner and that disrespect will not be tolerated. Period. No option. Don't tell him that he "hurt your feelings" etc... if he is rude. Deal with the rudeness and refuse to discuss the issue until he can bring it up respectfully.

OK, now one last thing. Sensing weakness in you does one other thing that is probably causing problems. It terrifies him. Not only is he suddenly experiencing new stresses and pressures in a job, but the rock he was depending on is sliding around under his feet. If there is no leadership then he has to take a leadership role and he does not feel capable of doing that. He's already overwhelmed at work taking on new stresses and pressures and now he might have to do that at home too. Internally he's freaking out so he's lashing out at you as a means of relieving that pressure.

This is a tough situation you have, but if you successfully navigate it, think how strong and wonderful your relationship will be. You seem very strong, insightful and dedicated to making it work. I'll think you'll do well.

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Post #: 48

RE: Do we part? - 12/9/2007 6:59:49 AM

unravel

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Impressive thread, and tons of really sound advice in here.
Besides the whole "loss of the D/s control over the sub" issue, i think this is going down to the raw dangers of damaging Your emotional core and health, long-term.
i would sit down, write down in details what it is in his behaviour that hurts You, then how it is hurting You, i.e. how are You feeling after he says such things or acts in a certain manner, then why it is hurting You and this relationship, i.e. what is the thought and emotion process leading from his words/actions to Your feeling hurt, and then where You think this is going to lead Your relationship if this continues. i would go ahead and write these things down. Self-introspection never hurts, i think, and this would give You even more sound confidence to start a serious and long talk on the topic with him: all Your arguments would be ready.
That way You can truly sit down with him and talk while remaining as factual as possible and avoiding too many personal attacks which would fuel his getting away from such a calm, serious discussion.
And at the end of this conversation, if it goes well, propose changes/solutions to the situation, from seeing a therapist together, or separately, or suggesting you two split up for a bit, or ... etc ...

Best of luck. This is not easy. The longer this keeps going, it sounds from what You wrote, the most likely long-term damage to Your confidence and emotional core will be done. Be strong! Good luck!

unravel

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RE: Do we part? - 12/10/2007 12:58:58 AM

Magistrar

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I apologize for not replying to people sooner, I spent the entire weekend in talks with my sub. Our talks went very well, we covered a lot of ground refamiliarizing ourselves with our relationship basics, our responsibilities to one another, to our relationship structure & have to say it was a talk that was long overdue for us both, with much crying done as well as a lot of reassurances from both of us.

We aren't going to part, I was being a drama queen & feeling as if the worst case scenario had invaded my life. I spent a lot of my time this weekend analyzing my recent behaviors & had not realized that I am depressed for a number of reasons, but mainly to do with not having a job & with everything that had been going on with my sub I had not stopped to look at ME & that what I was facing from him were symptoms caused by my own 'apathy'.

I do sincerely believe that my sub has a form of autism, which will remain formally undiagnosed & I understand his reasons for not wanting to travel that route, until now, his 'quirks' had not been a problem & I could read him very well, developing techniques to refocus his attention/behavior, I had not realized that I had stopped doing this. Sub has assured me he does not think any less of me, that he will love & support me no matter what we face in life, which is very reassuring to hear. He explained he felt as if he was 'doing it all' & no longer had any structural input from me, to the point he was fighting his own demons as he is a person that needs structure, he needs discipline & a strict regime.

I am so grateful to the many replies offering so much support & great advise, it is humbling to know how much people care & I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the words of wisdom & insights each person has provided. I've had so much to think about (I'm still buzzing!).

We're not a lost cause & I believe this crisis of faith has strengthened our relationship.

Thank you to Beltainefaerie, I do appreciate your advice. Also many big thank yous to lusciouslips19, MsCfromMelbourne, MaamJay, ShiftedJewel, MissMorrigan, TNstepsout & unravel, for providing much food for thought & offering so many insights I have taken to heart & will begin implementing to get me back on a positive road.

Initially I dreaded asking collarme members for advice but I'm so thankful that I did, words cannot express how grateful I am to everyone that offered help.

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