RE: Iams animal testing

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MrThorns -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 10:31:45 AM)
http://www.iamstruth.com/iamstruth/en_US/jhtmls/article/IT_Article_Page.jhtml?li=en_US&pti=RP&articleID=6 Above is a link with an article from Iams regarding the activist video. I don't know who is really telling the truth here because PETA's video never shows anything that would link the animals in their video to Iams. Iams, of course, has an interest in covering their own ass. Both parties have their own agenda, but I really don't think that the PETA video has proven that Iams mistreats animals. ~Thorns

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 11:24:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyakitten Sadly, I've seen kittens dying too because of selective breeding and over-breeding, poorly trained and poorly paid animal welfare technicians, an apathetic public, etc., etc. ... PETA is not the problem, just a convenient lightning rod. In my opinion, of course. Liana Liana, there are some "breeders" who are in it strictly for the money... they tend to be the ones who supply to the pet stores. They have no ethics or cares when it comes to using, or rather abusing their cash cows, i.e. the unfortunate overbred animals to which you refer, which produce the "selective breeding" puppies and kittens to which you refer. That is not selective breeding, it is backyard breeding. I am not going to get into an ethical breeder vs. backyard breeder arguement with you, or a pro or anti-PETA arguement for that matter. As we have both said, we each have our opinions and most likely will not change the other's mind [:)] As far as the training vet techs (I presume that's what you were referring to) receive, being poorly trained and poorly paid, I suppose that depends upon where they receive their schooling. I'm sure those advertisements on late-night TV that include vet tech along with all those other vocations don't give the kind of training an accredited vet school would. And from what I've seen, vet techs have been notoriously underpaid for as long as I can remember. Sad but true; well trained ones are an integral part of a good veterinary practice. Thank goodness the vets I use are lucky enough to have them. Yours in pets, cello

Mandalin -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 2:47:19 PM)
I have been doing alot of reseach in the past 24 hours, and for me Peta is not the issue anymore. Yes, they have opened my eyes to alot, but I dont necessarily agree with the things they have been doing. But the videos they have taken undercover dont lie. Especially the one concerning a "Kosher" slaughter house in Postville Iowa just a few miles from me. It has been proven real, and it's one of the worst things I have ever seen. Those types of things and unnecessary experimenting on animals are my issue, and I will fight to get this stopped. There are other "good" organizations out there that are really trying to end this the right way, and that's where my focus will be. Thank you for all your opinions with this, I have learned something from each and every one of them.

Isolde -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 2:58:31 PM)
I wish I could say I have any faith in PETA being willing to stick to the truth so far as their campaigns go but there've been too many questions raised about the authenticity of some of the videos they come out with. Not long ago they released one to attack a furrier in Europe. They claimed the video showed the furrier skinning rabbits alive to make coats. What the video actually showed (after the conversation in the background was translated) was Chinese farmers skinning what looked like a raccoon or a raccoon bear after being paid to do so by a couple of foreigners who were alleged to be PETA members. One of the farmers asks the men something along the lines of "You want us to skin it alive? Without killing it first?" They answer "Yes, do it quickly." Not to say that there aren't some terrible things done to animals by people trying to make a buck. But I think PETA's tactics and attitude harms more than aids their cause.

Mandalin -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 5:44:25 PM)
Yes Isolde, I do agree with you that Peta fabricates some of their videos. I watched one on the shipping and slaughter of Australian sheep. It showed the sheep being slaughter(to put it nicely) alive one by one, when there was 30,000 waiting in line. Very unlikely that they wouldnt be mass slaughtered in those numbers. Some videos I can spot as a Peta making...but some are very real. You just cant believe them all

mistoferin -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 7:42:50 PM)
quote: I will be doing some research to determine if there are any widely available (e.g., sold at WalMart) brands that are both healthy and not supportive of cruel testing methods. I am not aware of any brands that are sold through grocery or department stores that are optimally healthy. There is a lot of misinformation on pet food labels, especially on brands sold at the grocery/department store level. There are many percentages listed for things like fiber, fat and protein that are misleading because your animal can not necessarily process the ingredients that bring these numbers up. Fat could be motor oil, protein could be ground hair and fiber could be sawdust. All things that make the numbers look good that your animal can not utilize. Iams used to be a wonderful animal food company but unfortunately was sold a few years back and the quality has seriously suffered. I don't know of any breeders who would currently recommend their products as it is now basically a grocery store level brand. Personally, I feed Wellness which is made of human grade products that are baked. It is pricey but you will feed much less of this product to maintain proper health and weight. It also drastically cuts down on the amount of stool as there is not much in it the animal does not utilize. There are several great sites on the net that do pet food comparisons. You may want to take a look at one of those. Also, there are sites that explain pet food ingredients, their quality and importance.

DesertRat -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 7:48:52 PM)
Thanks, erin. I will check out the Wellness brand. I think I may be able to get it at one of the local feed stores here. As for pricey? What the Hell? My cats get better medical care than I do; they might as well eat better, too. Bob

subversiveone -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 7:54:21 PM)
The funny thing about dogs is that the smellier, nastier, the food, the more they like it. A vet once told me that most dogs in the wild would gladly eat the intestinal tract of roadkill first! They aren't really big on complex carbs. Most dog foods are nutritionaly devoid of the essential nutrients, amino acids and vitamins. quote Chicken byproducts consist of the rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as heads, feet, viscera, free from fecal content and foreign matter except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Chicken byproducts are an inconsistent ingredient because of the multiple organs used, their constantly changing proportions and their questionable nutritional value. Chicken Byproducts are much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal. Meat Meal or Meat & Bone Meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, with or without bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Most people associate this ingredient with beef. The truth is that it can come from any mammal: pigs, goats, horses, rabbits, rendered animals from shelters, and dead animals found on roads. Meat meal can contain condemned parts and animals that are rejected for human consumption, including '4D' animals: dead, diseased, dying, or disabled. It can include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed (spoiled) tissue. This inexpensive ingredient found in many commercial pet foods cannot be considered part of a safe, healthy diet for pets. end quote ALL OF WALMARTS DOG FOODS CONTAIN ONE OF THE ABOVE IN MY EXPERIENCE The lamb based are slightly more nutritional, depending on the source. Please consider having one of the foods I suggested drop shipped directly to you Bob, or just research the heck outta the food you chose. Bones and Raw Food (acronym BARF) is the most common homemade feeding method I've found. There's tons of info on this and it can be VERY HARD for pets to adjust to. If you switch foods and get the diahrrea DON'T SIMPLY STOP FEEDING THE NEW FOOD because it should stop soon. Look for signs of dehydration and never keep a sick dog outside.

Mandalin -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/16/2005 9:20:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesertRat Thanks, erin. I will check out the Wellness brand. I think I may be able to get it at one of the local feed stores here. As for pricey? What the Hell? My cats get better medical care than I do; they might as well eat better, too. Bob Your post just made me really smile! My whole paycheck already goes for my cats care, so it wont be any different to pay a fortune for their food too![;)]

tinkJH -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 5:29:43 AM)
I am not sure walmart has its own dog food, however they do sell a very cheap dog food called Old Roy, which is sold other places as well - its turns my stomach and makes me gag when I see people buy it for their dog. I couldnt go and look at this site - I get pissed, and cry just watching Animal Cops - in fact, Im no longer allowed to watch it. Personally, I know animal cruelty exists, animal testing exists, that there are thousands of dogs, cats, bunnies, monkies in cages - alone, neglected and injected with chemicals. Just as I know there are thousands of dogs, cats, across the US homless, starving, hurt, beaten, neglected.. And there is practically nothing I can do about it. I can do what I can.. I can donate, I can cut out products that support animal testing, I can help or at least try to take in what I can. Other then that, all I can do is cry. Cockerspaniels and Small Breeds are more likely to bite a person then a Pit Bull or a Dobermen or a Rott. The Dobermen, Pitt Bull and Rott just get more news media over it. They are bigger, they do more damage, and they are KNOWN for "fighting". It doesn't make the breed bad. I've owned and my family has owned beautiful and sweet, gentle Rott's and Pitt's. I learned how to walk from out family pitt bull. I barely remember that dog, as she died when I was 5, but she was the sweetest and most protective dog. I've owned three Pitt's since, and one rott. Two pitts when I was growing up, then my mother got a Boxer (who died shortly after her and my grandmother a few years ago). Then I got a pitt (okay he wasnt mine but a present for my in laws, they loved the breed) and then I had a Rott, Who I had for a year and my Ex's friend stole her from me. I also took in a Chow at one point. I wish I still had her. She was the sweetest and smartest dog. At the same time I had her, I had a Great Pyrenea's, who later died of a blood disease before she was two. Right now, I have another Pyrenea's.. Big, white and fluffy. I love her even tho she sheds all the time and everywhere. There are many breeds topping the "Bad Dog" list. American Staffordshire Terriers (Pitt Bulls), Rott's, Dobermen's, Chow's, Dalmation, German Shephard, Cocker Spaniel is even on some insurance lists.

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 7:31:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tinkJH I am not sure walmart has its own dog food, however they do sell a very cheap dog food called Old Roy, which is sold other places as well - its turns my stomach and makes me gag when I see people buy it for their dog. They have their own brand of cat food, called Special Kitty. Master bought it for them while I was away, and when I came home to a box full of diarrhea and a livingroom floor full of barf, I ripped him a new asshole! The cats loved it, according to him... yeah, like giving cocoa puffs to a child who has been raised on Special K! THAT won't happen again! cello

Jennsen -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 9:07:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK quote: ORIGINAL: tinkJH I am not sure walmart has its own dog food, however they do sell a very cheap dog food called Old Roy, which is sold other places as well - its turns my stomach and makes me gag when I see people buy it for their dog. They have their own brand of cat food, called Special Kitty. Master bought it for them while I was away, and when I came home to a box full of diarrhea and a livingroom floor full of barf, I ripped him a new asshole! The cats loved it, according to him... yeah, like giving cocoa puffs to a child who has been raised on Special K! THAT won't happen again! cello Awww yes, the same thing happened to me when I ran out of my regular cat food. Ran to Wal-Mart at mid-night(because cats thought they were going to die before morning without food) just grabbed Special Kitty until I could get "their good food" in the morning....I woke up to barf all over the house, and stepped in it in the hallway first thing...Mmmmm, ice cold puke between my toes before 7am!

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 9:50:26 AM)
Please see this... and thanks to my veterinarian friend (no, I'm not a client of hers, she's too far away from me) who found this after I posted the cruelty site on a list I am on)... www.animalscam.com cello

Mandalin -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 11:55:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK Please see this... and thanks to my veterinarian friend (no, I'm not a client of hers, she's too far away from me) who found this after I posted the cruelty site on a list I am on)... www.animalscam.com cello I found that site last night, and after reading it I watched Peta's videos again. In the Chinese Fur Trade video on Raccoons, you can here the Peta guy saying to the skinner,"Skin it alive" the skinner says"You want me to skin it alive?" Peta says,"Yes, be quick about it" That was one of many I found where Peta asks(or it's obvious Peta has fabricated the video) another is the Chinchilla farm, the man says,"Ya, I can do that, but mind you, keep my face hidden" . Peta is responsible for these horrible acts! So you will donate more money to them. Yes, these skinners and farmers and the other's make their living off these animals, but there not "always" as cruel and inhumane as Peta wants you to think they are. I'm sure there are many out there that are....but not as many as your led to believe by Peta. Peta is a scam...what a shame they are!

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 11:57:59 AM)
Yes Mandalin, I believe they are. like I said before, there's a difference between animal rights fanatics who do more harm than good and legitimate animal welfare organizations, which includes breed rescues, etc. I for one am not changing my cat food; my cats thrive on Iams and have been for nineteen years. You're a good person Mandalin. [:)] cello

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 11:58:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jennsen I woke up to barf all over the house, and stepped in it in the hallway first thing...Mmmmm, ice cold puke between my toes before 7am! Lovely, isn't it?

pinkpleasures -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 5:33:08 PM)
Here are some of my thoughts: animal cruelty is a symptom of evil. However, animals are not human. Using them to test products and to make fur coats seems reasonable and desirable to me. Killing horses for insurance money will buy you a one-way ticket to hell, i hope. PETA is far too radical to be relied upon. i'd never accept research based on their site. When cruelty to children is wiped out, i'll worry more about animal cruelty. However i do think people convicted of these crimes should do some hard time. i am old enough to remember Che Guevra and the lettuce boycott. i have been through the Nestle boycott. i find the organizers are totally irresponsible insofar as informing the public when the boycott ends. Wanna cause? How about prescription drug companies dumping bad/old/untested drugs on the third world. i look at the CEO's of these companies and think they have become so greedy they are actually evil. What about the failure of the diamond market to exclude blood diamonds from Sierra Leone? There's so much pain and suffering; here and abroad. i honestly cannot get animated about animal testing. pinkpleasures

perverseangelic -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/17/2005 6:36:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures However, animals are not human. Using them to test products and to make fur coats seems reasonable and desirable to me. They can, however, suffer. I am not opposed to -medical- testing on animals, because I can see it as a useful and necessary step. However, I am against ANYTHING that causes unnecessary suffering. I believe that increacing the suffering in the world, even animal suffering is evil. Animal cruelty is not my pet cause, however, as it is closer to home, it's often easier to have an effect in. I can volunteer at the SPCA. I can foster animals. I can catch/spay/relase. I can be active, and useful. I cannot be so active in some other causes. I can march, and write, and support, but it isn't nearly as immediate. That and my animal activism doesn't get impede my other activism.

Mandalin -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/18/2005 1:33:42 AM)
I can accept animal testing for medical purposes with extreme cases such as cancer, MS, and those types of illnesses. And I can hope the medical profession will someday redirect their ambitions towards finding cures, and off the money they will be losing if they do. But, I cannot accept sewing a baby monkey's eyes shut, inserting devices in it's brain and cutting major sensories, isolating it with no comforts, keeping it always hungry and thirsty so it will cooperate...just to see how the brain relates to blindness. I cannot accept spraying a kitten down 5-6 times with flea spray to learn what kind of reaction it will have. Common sense should tell them it will suffer horribly and die. Animal cruelty is just one of the things I find important to have a voice in. Child abuse and cruelty, Health insurance for everyone, stopping the war, eliminating dishonest politicians, stem cell cures, education, gas prices, and many more are important to me. Animal suffering just happens to be my choice for this week. I feel my voice will be heard if I cry out long enough and so will other's.

tinkJH -> RE: Iams animal testing (8/18/2005 6:44:03 AM)
quote: pinkpleasures Wow.... not even I am that bitter and cold hearted.

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