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RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/10/2007 4:45:57 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Negotiation is a part of all relationships, but in D/s and BDSM relationships, that negotiation is often more explicit.  If you are truly not enjoying what is happening to you, it is on you to speak up. 


(This isn't a serious question:)

What if I don't want to enjoy what is happening to me?


Two schools of thought here. Firstly, if you are not enjoying it, you can speak up and end it, like Lady Hibiscus advises. Secondly, if your Mistress is enjoying what She is doing, you can endure it to please Her.

Edits for spelling

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 12/10/2007 5:15:03 AM >

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/10/2007 6:40:32 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
(This isn't a serious question:)

What if I don't want to enjoy what is happening to me?

Then you are well matched with me, who wants my play partners to actually NOT enjoy what I'm doing to them, but want to endure it for my pleasure. :)

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/10/2007 8:21:29 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Negotiation is a part of all relationships, but in D/s and BDSM relationships, that negotiation is often more explicit. If you are truly not enjoying what is happening to you, it is on you to speak up.


(This isn't a serious question:)

What if I don't want to enjoy what is happening to me?


My follow up question then is:

How do you feel afterwards?

If the feelings are positive toward yourself and your partner, then I say it's a positive experience.

If the feelings are negative then I'd be concerned about feeling those negative emotions.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/10/2007 6:17:48 PM   
glowworm


Posts: 14
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		OP,
I think to answer your questions, you have to ask yourself, "Did I give consent throughout the experience(s)?"  The difference between between heavy play and abuse is CONSENT.   When you lose that ability to able to consent to what is happening to you, when you feel you can't say your safewords, when you feel that your safety is no longer being respected and you didn't negoititate for that, then IMHO, the line has been crossed.  I've been in situations where it went from play to rape in a flash and for years after, you question yourself, you wonder if you could have prevented it somehow, or worse, did you cause it?   That is what I am reading into your post, however I may be interpreting incorrectly.

-GlowWorm

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/11/2007 6:43:46 PM   
subhub2b


Posts: 6
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline 		There were times that I didn't consent and there were plenty of times that I did.  I take full responsibility for both and have chalked all of it up to a learning experience.  The point of my original post was honestly not about that relationship but more about understanding future relationships.  I think I have a bit of a better perspective on the mind of a sadist now. 

Thanks to everyone for their responses.     

(in reply to glowworm)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/11/2007 7:54:52 PM   
sammiebabygirl


Posts: 465
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subhub2b

But if I am to be completely honest now in retrospect, I don't believe for a second that it was in fact a test of devotion.  She simply got off on watching me suffer.  Huge difference there...and that is precisely the part that I can't seem to wrap my head around. 


That is what makes taking the pain/torture worth it to me. I absolutely love to watch a Dom get off at my expense. It gives me so much pleasure, it is actually a sexual turn on to me.
 
jen

_____________________________

"Men are like pianos. When they get upright, i feel GRAND!!!"

http://charldine.com/jen2820

(in reply to subhub2b)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/11/2007 8:10:28 PM   
HottLicks


Posts: 174
Joined: 9/21/2007
Status: offline 		Now that you better understand a sadist, may I suggest that if you haven't already, ask yourself why you allowed this to continue when you had problems with it? As a dominant, I want to know how my submissive feels every step of the way and expect to be told.  Many that I know have had a problem with speaking up in their relationships and it might take time, but if you cannot communicate on simple levels with someone, maybe you shouldn't be involved in physical stuff.

After a break up, we often wish to understand things and search for answers we may never get.  We suffer and cannot understand it all and we might feel abused or used somehow.  Even though things might not have gone well, there were things that attracted us and kept us with the person and we struggle to fit all the pieces together.  It's painful, but being proactive as you are is a good start to healing.

Please let me encourage you to seek out what is a better fit for you and expect it respectfully of course and respect starts with you.  Respect your right to decide what is best for you.  Even after giving control to another, you still have a right to be respected and heard.  If you find a dominant that doesn't respect your right to these things and so much more, it is your responsiblity to yourself to do whatever it takes to change things.

I hope you can get through this and not be afriad to step out there again, when the time comes.  I'm sure there is someone who would love to treat you the way you wish to be treated.  Good luck to you!

(in reply to subhub2b)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/12/2007 3:00:05 AM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Negotiation is a part of all relationships, but in D/s and BDSM relationships, that negotiation is often more explicit. If you are truly not enjoying what is happening to you, it is on you to speak up.


(This isn't a serious question:)

What if I don't want to enjoy what is happening to me?


My follow up question then is:

How do you feel afterwards?

If the feelings are positive toward yourself and your partner, then I say it's a positive experience.

If the feelings are negative then I'd be concerned about feeling those negative emotions.


Fufilled. Rejuvanated. Ecstatic.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/12/2007 3:46:47 AM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
(This isn't a serious question:)

What if I don't want to enjoy what is happening to me?


Then you are well matched with me, who wants my play partners to actually NOT enjoy what I'm doing to them, but want to endure it for my pleasure. :)


Uh Huh, and it's a win win situation for me since I want your WORST.

So ignore me... and I just might like it!  

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/12/2007 5:13:32 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Negotiation is a part of all relationships, but in D/s and BDSM relationships, that negotiation is often more explicit. If you are truly not enjoying what is happening to you, it is on you to speak up.


(This isn't a serious question:)

What if I don't want to enjoy what is happening to me?


My follow up question then is:

How do you feel afterwards?

If the feelings are positive toward yourself and your partner, then I say it's a positive experience.

If the feelings are negative then I'd be concerned about feeling those negative emotions.


Fufilled. Rejuvanated. Ecstatic.


There you go then.

It is fulfilling to you post the immediate session. The activities may be unenjoyable but the results are worth that. Yes?

Fox would say that SM is also unenjoyable for him but the emotional rewards he gets from suffering for my pleasure make it very worth while. Over time his body has learned to turn some of the pain into pleasure too but I'd never count on that myself.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/12/2007 5:20:08 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
Uh Huh, and it's a win win situation for me since I want your WORST.

So ignore me... and I just might like it!  

To ignore you, you must be trying to get my attention. :)

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/14/2007 9:20:51 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Negotiation is a part of all relationships, but in D/s and BDSM relationships, that negotiation is often more explicit. If you are truly not enjoying what is happening to you, it is on you to speak up.


(This isn't a serious question:)

What if I don't want to enjoy what is happening to me?


My follow up question then is:

How do you feel afterwards?

If the feelings are positive toward yourself and your partner, then I say it's a positive experience.

If the feelings are negative then I'd be concerned about feeling those negative emotions.


Fufilled. Rejuvanated. Ecstatic.


There you go then.

It is fulfilling to you post the immediate session. The activities may be unenjoyable but the results are worth that. Yes?


 I would say so.

(This question is off topic)

Why are S&M activities so closely linked to the D/s lifestyle? 

< Message edited by UBERMUNSCHIST -- 12/14/2007 9:58:06 PM >

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/15/2007 9:07:17 AM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		In my Dom aspect, I can be very sadistic.  I enjoy inflicting pain on a masochist and watching them get off on it, but I also enjoy pushing beyond what they enjoy into more "actual" pain.  I do not believe in pushing anyone to the point of mush.  I like the control, I like hearing their cries and I especially love that point where they are processing the sensation as both pleasure and pain, that point where they can't decide whether they want it to continue or stop now. 

(Being a switch, I also know what it feels like to be in that state, so I think I relish putting someone there even more!)

I think you would do better with a domme who isn't a sadist. Many think that because they are dom and you are sub, they can make you into whatever they want, hence your ex saying that you would become a masochist.  While I think that many boundaries can be stretched and we end up doing things we never tought possible and even enjoying them, some people simply aren't wired to enjoy pain.  Most dommes are going to engage in some pain play, but not all, and many that do are not actually sadists. 

(in reply to JulieorSarah)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/15/2007 9:09:39 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
(This question is off topic)

Why are S&M activities so closely linked to the D/s lifestyle? 


Because of the mutually required trust and consent issues surrounding them. And because enduring pain you would not volunteer to endure is such a strong reminder of having consentually given up control.

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/15/2007 10:38:49 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
(This question is off topic)

Why are S&M activities so closely linked to the D/s lifestyle?


Because of the mutually required trust and consent issues surrounding them. And because enduring pain you would not volunteer to endure is such a strong reminder of having consentually given up control.


They aren't for everyone.

If someone is really not into SM or bondage or anything else, I think it's best to not pair up with someone to whom those things are important.

Fox is neutral toward SM, he's not a masochist but he isn't turned off by or opposed to pain. I'm neutral toward bondage myself. Thus we are each neutral toward something the other values a good deal but not so much that we need it regularly to have good scene or a good dynamic. If our feelings were on the negative side then we should not have chosen each other.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/15/2007 4:41:47 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for your response!

< Message edited by UBERMUNSCHIST -- 12/15/2007 4:45:41 PM >

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 36
Learning. - 12/15/2007 5:06:25 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
(This question is off topic)

Why are S&M activities so closely linked to the D/s lifestyle?


Because of the mutually required trust and consent issues surrounding them. And because enduring pain you would not volunteer to endure is such a strong reminder of having consentually given up control.


They aren't for everyone.

If someone is really not into SM or bondage or anything else, I think it's best to not pair up with someone to whom those things are important.

Fox is neutral toward SM, he's not a masochist but he isn't turned off by or opposed to pain. I'm neutral toward bondage myself. Thus we are each neutral toward something the other values a good deal but not so much that we need it regularly to have good scene or a good dynamic. If our feelings were on the negative side then we should not have chosen each other.


This is very interesting,

It seems like saodmasochism is used as a tool in your relationship.

(This question is open to everyone.)

Do you think that a S&M relationship needs a D/s dynamic?

Do you think that the D/s expression can be used as a tool (in an S&M based relationship) in the same way that you use S&M in your relationship?

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/15/2007 5:13:21 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
(This question is off topic)

Why are S&M activities so closely linked to the D/s lifestyle? 


Because of the mutually required trust and consent issues surrounding them. And because enduring pain you would not volunteer to endure is such a strong reminder of having consentually given up control.


Would you agree that trust is integral to both of these lifestyles?


(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/15/2007 6:04:23 PM   
deeddlit


Posts: 484
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		It sounds to me like you would fit very well into a primarily D/s relationship.  No where is it written that to have D/s you have to S&M.

There are those Dommes out there that are not Sadists by any stretch of the imagination and would love to just have that D/s dynamic with you.

Good luck to you!!
Deeddlit


_____________________________

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
Albert Einstein

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: W...w...what are you gonna do to me with THAT thing?? - 12/16/2007 1:45:46 AM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deeddlit

It sounds to me like you would fit very well into a primarily D/s relationship.  No where is it written that to have D/s you have to S&M.

There are those Dommes out there that are not Sadists by any stretch of the imagination and would love to just have that D/s dynamic with you.

Good luck to you!!
Deeddlit



Are you responding to subhub2b?

< Message edited by UBERMUNSCHIST -- 12/16/2007 1:46:22 AM >

(in reply to deeddlit)
Profile   Post #: 40
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