Black Men Must Take Responsibility (Full Version)

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MistressPav -> Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 4:13:25 PM)

Roland Martin - CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/11/roland.martin/index.html

As the mug shots of the alleged killers of NFL star Sean Taylor were shown on television, I kept wondering when we were going to see their parents step forward. I saw a couple of mothers, but their dads were missing in action. Roland Martin credits two strong parents with raising him to do right by them.[image]http://www.cnn.com/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif[/image] Dads matter, and it's ridiculous for us to act as if all it takes is a loving mom. Now, I don't know what it means not to have a father in your life. I'm not familiar with a mom being strung out on a crack binge. And when my parents were called to the school when there was a discipline problem, Mom and Dad didn't go off on the teacher or principal. In fact, I can still feel the pain of my elementary school principal's paddle being applied to my butt when I acted a fool. The principal could only pop me three times. Dad? He had no limit. Bottom line: I can sit here today and celebrate them and enjoy a wonderful life because my parents were hell-bent on raising their children to do right by them, especially my dad. We can spend all day talking about the ills afflicting urban America -- and there are plenty that are institutional -- but the decaying value of life in inner cities clearly can be traced to the exodus of fathers from the lives of so many young men. Excuses often are tossed about as to why black men leave their children (and their children's moms) to fend for themselves. But a lot of them are just sorry and refuse to accept the responsibility that comes with raising a child. A lot of my colleagues will suggest it's too simplistic to assign such a high value to a dad being in the life of a child. But just take a visit to your local jail, juvenile hall or state prison. You likely will be confronted with a sea of black men -- strong, able-bodied, creative and restless -- who have spent or will spend years and years with a prison number identifying who they are. According to the U.S. Justice Department, of all the black men in the U.S. between the ages of 25 and 29 in 2002, 10.4 percent were incarcerated. Hispanic and white men? Just 2.4 percent and 1.2 percent respectively. If a poll were done on how many grew up without fathers, I can guarantee you the numbers would be staggering.
The rampant poverty that exists has led many young blacks to a life of crime, choosing to sell drugs and involve themselves in gangs as opposed to focusing on education as a way out of the cellar of life. But you see, when nearly 70 percent of black kids are born to unmarried parents, likely to a too-young mom, that puts tremendous pressure on grandmothers (and some grandfathers), sisters and brothers to take up the slack. But if the person who impregnated that woman were on the scene, not only helping to pay for the raising of the child but also serving as a strong influence, I just don't believe we would see such a chronic condition. And the black men who have done their job are scared to death about what the tendency for black men to leave relationships means for their daughters. The day before leaving for vacation, I got word that a good friend, Chicago attorney Reynaldo Glover, had died of pancreatic cancer. He was 64. In our last extensive conversation before he was diagnosed in July, Reynaldo pleaded with me to use my national media stage to be a voice to sound the alarm about what's happening to black men in America, because he wanted to know that his daughter would have a respectable man to marry one day. (I'm sure if she chose to marry someone who's not black, Reynaldo wouldn't mind, but he realized that as a nation, we mostly marry within our race.) I promised Reynaldo that I would do all I can, because this has been an issue for me for many years. In fact, my mom gets angry because I'm always talking about my dad on television, radio and in my books. That's because when you see black men who have "made it," the accolades are plenty for their moms, and their dads are hardly mentioned. I just think it's critical to show daddy some love, too. This is not an issue that black America can continue to sweep under the rug. I've heard countless folks talk about it, such as Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, who noted that his dad left his family when he was a toddler and didn't see much of him growing up. Even in the Republican CNN-YouTube debate, GOP candidate Mitt Romney said fathers are part of the answer to addressing crime in inner cities. We shouldn't shame our young girls who get pregnant, but surely it shouldn't be seen as a blue-ribbon day. Teenage black girls and black boys should be focused on picking colleges, not the names of babies. When a young girl wants a baby christened, her pastor should be asking to meet with the father as well, even if the two don't get along. We also should be telling black women not to lie down with any fool. A moment of pleasure could lead you to a lifetime of raising that child. Alone. A friend of mine suggested more black men need to mentor young black men. I agree. But that's a bandage. If we get black men to handle their business in the first place, no one else would have to stand in the gap. Unless black America owns up to this problem -- and fast -- we are going to see another generation of young black men who are angry with their lot in life. And the result will be more discipline problems in school, which will lead to folks dropping out, and that is nothing but a one-way ticket to jail. Black men, it's time to man up. Enough with the sperm donors. We need real men to stand up and accept their responsibility. The state of our boys is on us. And no one else.

***************************************repost from CNN*********************************************




domiguy -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 4:26:14 PM)

Sure it is a problem....Hmmm seems like that cracker who decided to take his problems out on the world by shooting a handful of people in that mall in Nebraska was lacking some serious parental guidance.

Probably the same goes for most folks who find themselves on the serious end of a nice hefty jail sentence.

It is a universal problem.  Does it afffect one ethnicity over the other? Probably.  Is it worth discussing as some unique theory that Roland Martin just happened to stumble across while reading the latest issue of O magazine?  I could care less. 

The reality is that no one gives a flying fuck about anyone else. We care up to degrees...Give to charity that which doesn't affect our finances....Volunteer time which won't impede on our lifestyle....Write what should be happening and eagerly point out what ails us all but never actually willing to contribute towards finding the cure.

Nothing new.  Nothing to see here. Life goes on.




MistressPav -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 6:57:29 PM)

yeah, most of you don't like Roland because he tells it like it is. 
I just wonder why he wastes his time and energy, because some things will never change.
Such is life.




juliaoceania -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 7:04:30 PM)

You know, there are many single white moms out there, I wonder why we always bring this back to ethnicity... it seems rather much to me to not look at the socio-economic factors behind why things are the way they are, instead of putting out some throw-a-way dismissive theory that blames one factor for the entire problem.

What came first? Socio economic problems and discrimination, or fathers leaving their kids?




laurell3 -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 7:08:38 PM)

I think domi's right in that it's not isolated to any one race and sometimes even not one sex (mothers leave their kids too).  The alarming and increasing rate of impoverished families with only one parent across all races/groups of people is definitely concerning.

I think he's also right that there are many people that voice their concerns about societies ill's but never do much to address them.  However, I would disagree that even small measures in large numbers can make a big difference.




kdsub -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 7:46:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The reality is that no one gives a flying fuck about anyone else. We care up to degrees...Give to charity that which doesn't affect our finances....Volunteer time which won't impede on our lifestyle....Write what should be happening and eagerly point out what ails us all but never actually willing to contribute towards finding the cure.



Damn domiguy... that sounds so depressing. I think you are wrong in the above statement...unless you are grouping people in the same way the OP did.

I do give to charity but within my means...I volunteer so long as it does not take too much time from the family....I also say my peace on what should be sometimes...but hell I have no idea how to solve every problem.... It does not make me not giving a fuck. It just makes me normal… well in that since anyway…lol

Butch




juliaoceania -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 7:48:57 PM)

quote:

However, I would disagree that even small measures in large numbers can make a big difference.


Margaret Mead (and I think I am going to put this in my sigline now I think about it)

quote:

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.





FatDomDaddy -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 7:54:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


The reality is that no one gives a flying fuck about anyone else. We care up to degrees...Give to charity that which doesn't affect our finances....Volunteer time which won't impede on our lifestyle....Write what should be happening and eagerly point out what ails us all but never actually willing to contribute towards finding the cure.

Nothing new.  Nothing to see here. Life goes on.


So say the white guy




SugarMyChurro -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 8:11:30 PM)

MistressPav:

You need some cultural anthropology under your belt. Maybe if you read an ethnography concerning life in the ghetto or other run down urban environments you would be slightly more sympathetic to all the whys and wherefores that make family survival in such environments possible.

If you think you can survive such environments with every family member doing everything perfectly legally, I think you are mistaken. Some family members are literally sacrificed to the justice system for the overall good and survival of the other family members.

Numerous births is another survival strategy. You need lots of family members to fill different kinds of roles for the family - you need a criminal, a lawyer, a parent, a hustler, a breadwinner, etc. They all work together for the whole family to survive.

That's the way it is.

Welcome to the year 2007.




TheHeretic -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 8:21:22 PM)

       Why not also suggest some readings on how the welfare system (created by the Dems, who are so intent on doing "what is in our best interest") helped destroy families by giving handouts to women without husbands, and upping the check every time she plopped out another one she wasn't competent to care for?




kdsub -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 8:25:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

MistressPav:

If you think you can survive such environments with every family member doing everything perfectly legally, I think you are mistaken. Some family members are literally sacrificed to the justice system for the overall good and survival of the other family members.

Numerous births is another survival strategy. You need lots of family members to fill different kinds of roles for the family - you need a criminal, a lawyer, a parent, a hustler, a breadwinner, etc. They all work together for the whole family to survive.

That's the way it is.

Welcome to the year 2007.



I believe you are generalizing to the same degree as the OP... and  just as condescending.

I know a lot of black moms and dads that would be upset with you if you told them the only way they could survive was to have a criminal in the family.

Butch




FangsNfeet -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 8:26:22 PM)

I agree with Bill Cosby

http://www.eightcitiesmap.com/transcript_bc.htm

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/billcosbypoundcakespeech.htm

http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200710/20071017/slide_20071017_350_101.jhtml

I look forward for his message to be reached to everyone rather than just one community.




juliaoceania -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 8:39:26 PM)

Of course, agree with the Black guy that is not really a part of the community he critiques.... because he has as much idea of what is going on in the 'Hood as you do




TheHeretic -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 8:40:20 PM)

       I love the expression on Jesse Jackson's face in the picture on the American Rhetoric link, Fangs.  I hadn't heard the audio of that previously.  The crowd reaction suggests they weren't there to hear that Brown v. Board of Education was worthless to a culture that didn't want it. 




SugarMyChurro -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 8:40:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I believe you are generalizing to the same degree as the OP... and  just as condescending.


Well, there's no point discussing human behavior as if it happened in a vacuum - there are reasons for what people do or think they are doing. You just have to figure those reasons out.

I didn't mean to suggest that there is a one size fits all scheme here - that's the point entirely. Different strategies work for different people and different situations. Duh!

The OP suggest a one-size fits all scheme based on the Nuclear family and it just ain't so...

...and we know it ain't so.





CuriousLord -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 9:08:42 PM)

From a man who hasn't slept in a couple of days (so take with a pinch of salt)..


I like to point out that I hate "black" culture, something I'm all too often frustrated by its confusion with black people.  (This notion that one must act a certain way to be part of his own race.)  I do wonder how much it affects people.

I'm not used to seeing cliches and segration.. grew up in a rather affluent community where I think social issues fall to the wayside (and, let's be honest, better education and generally nicer people).

Now, I'm at a public univerisity.  I've noticed an odd trend.  When I go to the dinner here, there's typically a bunch of tables pushed together by a group of black individuals.  They're typically loud, close together, and chatty.  Honestly, they strike me as feminine in such a respect, looking for conformity of the group to lead them.  They strike me as submissive pack animals.

One should note that racism is the unfounded prejustice against a race, such as the belief that a particular race is genetically inferior in untested aspects.  It's not racist to, after a study of average heights, GPA's, IQ's, incomes, etc., to make a comparative analysis between races.  It is racist to just start degrading someone based on their race.

It is in this spirit I'd like to note that, if you go to the dinner I'm thinking of, you can typically find at least one such group of black people while it's rather uncommon to see any of the other major races in this community (white, asian) to do the same.  If nothing else, this highlights the possiblity of personality characterstics correlating with race in a particularly strong bit of evidence: replicable demonstration.

From here, I would offer conjuecture as to the particularly noted..

..god damn it, I'm typing this like a Statisics report.  I'm going to try to lay off the posts for a while.




RazorJAK -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 9:17:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

yeah, most of you don't like Roland because he tells it like it is. 



Sweet Black Fornicating Jesus!!!

You do realize that claiming someone's opinion is being dismissed for no other reason than he "tells it like it is" is akin to proclaiming "It's an (pick your group) thing.  You wouldn't understand.",  right?





OrionTheWolf -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 9:49:26 PM)

This figure from 2005 might be a good reason why:





United States



Non-Hispanic White

23%



Black or African American

65%



American Indian

49%



Asian and Pacific Islander

17%



Hispanic or Latino

36%



Total

32%

http://www.kidscount.org/sld/compare_results.jsp?i=722


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You know, there are many single white moms out there, I wonder why we always bring this back to ethnicity... it seems rather much to me to not look at the socio-economic factors behind why things are the way they are, instead of putting out some throw-a-way dismissive theory that blames one factor for the entire problem.

What came first? Socio economic problems and discrimination, or fathers leaving their kids?





NaiveTempest -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 10:01:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Now, I'm at a public univerisity.  I've noticed an odd trend.  When I go to the dinner here, there's typically a bunch of tables pushed together by a group of black individuals.  They're typically loud, close together, and chatty.  Honestly, they strike me as feminine in such a respect, looking for conformity of the group to lead them.  They strike me as submissive pack animals.

It is in this spirit I'd like to note that, if you go to the dinner I'm thinking of, you can typically find at least one such group of black people while it's rather uncommon to see any of the other major races in this community (white, asian) to do the same.  If nothing else, this highlights the possiblity of personality characterstics correlating with race in a particularly strong bit of evidence: replicable demonstration.



While at that diner you might only see black people "grouping together" I have seen all colors do it. I have seen, Phillipinos, Mexicans/Hispanics, whites, blacks, and asians ALL do it. The only difference is that since whites are usually the majority in most of the settling I view, one would not necessarily see them as grouping together. But flip the settling to a predominantly black or other diner, and the view speaks for itself. You shouldn't make such a comment without flipping the coin.

And what pray tell is wrong with drawing strength from being with others of your color. I still am afriad to go to certain states and areas by myself and when I see another black person there it gives me hope that I won't have to face any racism. It's not fun, try receiving some of it one day. When you go somewhere do you not try to find someone you have something is common with? Be it music, books, movies, etc. Many people un/consciously look for color.

I think the article was just trying to reach out to black men, case closed, no debate.




Level -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/11/2007 10:02:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Of course, agree with the Black guy that is not really a part of the community he critiques.... because he has as much idea of what is going on in the 'Hood as you do


I find a lot of what Cosby says to be quite wise, and would guess that he knows as much about the "hood" as most of us here.
 
And can he be blamed for not being a part of something so fucked up? That doesn't denote ignorance of it, either, on his part.




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