RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (Full Version)

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RedMagic1 -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 6:23:38 PM)

NightWind, you have mail.

If I am chatting with a lady for more than a week and she (or I) are still not interested in meeting live, then I say glad to have known you, and move on.  I have only made two exceptions to this, and they are both women who have posted here several times, and whose opinions I respect.  I also doubt I'll have any more than a Platonic relationship with either of them.

Maybe after deciding to meet, we can't do it for a few weeks or whatever.  That's logistics.  The important thing is that she understands -- as I do -- that there is no point making an emotional investment from online contact only.  I have read a few beautiful posts here of online wooing and romance, and congratulations to those people, but the OP-style burnout is much more common if you build a castle in the air.

As I wrote in another thread, I am meeting a lady this weekend.  I also just finalized, about an hour ago, meeting one Christmas week.  In both those cases, we contacted each other via Alt, but the principle is the same.  Do I have my dream long-term relationship yet?  Nope.  But I am dating wonderful, kinky women, and I have made a new friend every single time.

One final note: I am very clear from the beginning that we are not "hooking up," and if she is looking for NSA I am not the right person for her.  The purpose is to get to know each other in vanilla real.  Period.  I've had several ladies say I am being too serious, and never mind then.  But I've had others tell me how refreshing that is, and become more interested.  And truth?  I'm *not* interested in everyone, only people who are potentially the right person for *me*.



SailingBum -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 6:33:15 PM)

If I had a dime for every time I heard one of these stories I'd be almost rich.  I typically ask them this question.  How can you be this "invested" in a person you have never met?  I hear some bs about we love each other. I point out that your in love with the thought of being with them "escapism at its best"  Until you meet them it is not real.  BadOne



laurell3 -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 6:35:08 PM)

OP I'm sorry you're frustrated and maybe you should take a break for a bit if you are.

The location thing isn't really that much of a redflag to me unless it's a totally different area/country than what they say in chat.  The reason is twofold.  It's not uncommon for people in a small population area to put a zipcode or city that isn't theirs to protect their anonymity.  I've also had it be the case that someone that was 50 miles away from me was listed at 2 miles away.  I'm not sure how it happens or why, but I don't really see it as much of an indication of dishonesty personally.

Learning when to call it quits, learning when to trust your gut or ask more questions is a process.  Expectations can be unrealistic, however, anyone can be taken even with good radar.  How we respond to it seems to be the more important point.

I tend to be one of those that talks online for quite awhile before meeting someone, if that is not acceptable to others, they are of course free to tell me so. 

I agree with batshalom that we must assess our own behavior and belief and determine how much it plays in our failures or false starts in any area of life including dating.  Our own unrealistic expectations or inability to see what's really there is sometimes as much at fault as the person not being honest.  However, it's fairly easy to see it in others and sometimes not so easy to see it ourselves.




MystressDream -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 6:48:38 PM)

I fell into this game for awhile also.  I have finally reached a point where when a slave contacts me, we talk for a day or two... detailed information types of talks.  At that time, if he sounds like a very good potential, I require a meeting.  Some of them cut and run... "poof"... not even a "goodbye"... but, I won't play the "months of emails, phone calls, chat" game anymore.  I prefer to meet real time.  I have become emotionally invested with a couple online, and it hasn't worked with either of them.  I won't waste time doing that anymore.
 
I am active in my local BDSM community, and find it is the best place to meet new slaves/submissives.  There are way too many game players online.  At least if they are game players in the local community it is easier to figure it out.



SirJohnMandevill -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 7:00:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette
Honestly, I want to meet within a few weeks of talking to someone online. It doesn't cost that much to fly. Really. I understand that people have certain situations that prevent meeting, but if that continues for what I would consider too long...well, I know that they are not able to be in a relationship with me.


You're right on the mark. spanklette! If a submissive and I have exchanged e-mails and phone calls and the relationship is promosing, let's find out what's there in person. It doesn't even have to be for play -- let's just meet face-to-face..

I have to empathize with the OP, though. Until relatively recently, I was exchanging e-mails with s sub who sounded like the perfect play partner for me, in another state within easy driving distance. I wrote long, descriptive e-mails. She wrote back 2-3 lines. She even contacted my former sub as I had suggested, got an expansive reply...then disappeared. She claimed she was busy with work...yet was able to get on CM a couple times daily. I've since pulled the handle and ejected on that one.

Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)



MissDeeCole -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 7:02:56 PM)

I've met with 4 people on here and had only 1 problem. Thats a better % then most would imagine.



defiantbadgirl -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 7:04:08 PM)

The two most common ways for lifestylers to meet are munches and online.

This is what I have learned from personal experience and the best advice I can give to anyone who is searching.

munches
 
Munches are a great place to meet couples in the lifestyle. Occasionally, singles attend, but I've found that the majority are couples. If you find yourself surrounded by couples at a munch, socialize. Someone there might have a friend in the lifestyle that's seeking a partner.

online
 
Everyone knows there are alot of people who think fantasy is more exciting than reality and alot of people who use the lifestyle as a way of obtaining easy, no-strings sex. If both people are seeking that, by all means enjoy. To those looking for something more, I offer my advice. First, I'd like to point out that lack of a webcam isn't necessarily a red flag.  Unfortunately, webcams have a bad name because of wankers and the danger of being exploited (the ability of strangers to turn webcam views into photos to distribute or use as blackmail). My advice is to arrange a  public meeting as soon as possible. If someone won't give their phone number within 1-2 public meets, they are hiding something. I personally won't have sex with someone until I have their phone number, have verified that phone number isn't fake, and have been to their house. If someone is hiding the fact that they have a significant other, it's very unlikely they will reveal their place of residence.

Some may agree, others may not, but this is my advice for what it's worth.



juliaoceania -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 7:10:52 PM)

DBG.. that was possibly the most well thought out post I have ever seen from you, and the advice was terrific and positive.



KatyLied -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 7:13:16 PM)

~fr~
Everyone has a different comfort level.  I find it hard to believe that a guy who is serious about making a connection wouldn't understand a woman's need for privacy until she feels comfortable disclosing things like her home telephone (which can be traced to her address). 

If a person's comfort level doesn't match yours, either you aren't a good match or you are not patient (or do I dare say you may be desperate).  Sometimes when you don't press a person they are likely to give you things in their own time.

Again, I ask the OP, have you confirmed that you were indeed corresponding with a woman?  There are people who are on-line playing games because that is what they do, for amusement.



sammiebabygirl -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 7:21:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
If someone won't give their phone number within 1-2 public meets, they are hiding something.


Hell. I wont meet with someone until we have had at least one phone conversation and we have each other's phone numbers.
 
jen



peppermint -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 7:45:31 PM)

She wasn't interested enough to tell you her real name.  She wasn't interested enough to reply promptly to your emails.  She wasn't interested enough to write more than a line or two.  She wasn't interested in sharing photos. 

I also read the part of your post to the message board that said this relationship was "quite promising."   If what you've told us made this potential relationship quite promising, you must be quite desperate or very naive.   

Now for your proof that she lied about where she lived because CM's distance finder said so.  My personal profile and our couple's profile are listed in the same city and state....yet CM insists that we live 383 miles apart. 

If you want to meet people and know what they look like, and know that they are interested in BDSM, and know they want to meet other people then you go to where people interested in BDSM hang out....munches and dungeons.  You go to weekend events.  You mingle with real live living breathing people.  You certainly don't accuse another of abuse because you wished and hoped and dreamed of something that was an online figment of your imagination. 



crouchingtigress -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:13:28 PM)

i think that your forum post title speaks of deception and victimisation....and you want to believe you were decieved and maybe you were, i cant know.

but being a victim is a choice you have control of: things like this happen to every one every day, its what you do with it that counts.

can you see it as a learning lesson?
do you see that part you participated in co-creating it?
do you want to take responsibility or would you prefffer to blame "online deception"

you cant walk aimlessly into 4 lanes of speeding traffic, and then blame the highway system for getting mooshed.

well you can, and many do, but thats not going to allow you to grow, it will only allow you to wallow and become jaded....real growth will come when you realise that you are creating every second of the life you live by the thoughts you think....so my advice (if you are still reading by now) is to look inquiringly at those thoughts...and how ask yourself are they are or are not serving you at this time...i wish you well...i bid you peace

please write me on the other side if you want to play a game called "victim - responsible" ..its really fun and facillitates exponential growth.



AFlyInYourWeb -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:29:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

...socialize. Someone there might have a friend in the lifestyle that's seeking a partner.



I submit that's good advice on-line as well. 



defiantbadgirl -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:30:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

If a person's comfort level doesn't match yours, either you aren't a good match or you are not patient (or do I dare say you may be desperate). 

I fail to see how the idea of making sure a person is legit can be seen as desperate. Perhaps you could elaborate on your conclusion? Alot of people on here assume I lack a partner because there is something wrong with me. The truth is, I'm a full time college student at a private college. I get plenty of offers. I'm often forced to cancel scheduled meetings because of professors assigning  time consuming research papers or not announcing  tests until two days before. I look forward to taking my own advice once I'm out of college.

Sometimes when you don't press a person they are likely to give you things in their own time.
Or you end up finding out you wasted several months on a cheater.





secretagentgirl -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:32:12 PM)

Have you heard of the book for women called "He's Just Not that Into You." ?
I think you need the guy version.
Not to be mean, but you seem unable to recognize what could be a lack of interest.  Or at least a lack of STRONG interest.  And heck, we all want to find someone who is really excited about meeting us, right?  You deserve that as much as the next person!

I don't have a whole set of rules about identifying real people.  But I do feel that I have a good personal radar for B.S.  I've met people on Craigslist and here and all have been good experiences, I think because of my conversation process and good crap-detecting skills.  I don't do all that validation.  I just trust my gut.  Not that I'm advising you to trust yours, because I think it needs some honing.  You need to learn to bail at the first sign of valid suspicion.  If the person is real and is into you, I suspect it will work out in the end.




KatyLied -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:42:20 PM)

quote:

I fail to see how the idea of making sure a person is legit can be seen as desperate. Perhaps you could elaborate on your conclusion?


First, I hope you don't think I was referring to you in specific, you seem to have taken it personally and it was meant as a general reply.

If I am talking to a person who wants to the hurry along the process of getting to know each other.  As in, he wants to meet way before I do, I come to the conclusion that we are not compatible because 1) he doesn't have the patience level I like or 2)he is desperate because he's in a big hurry to meet and I'm not that desperate and would rather wait and know him better.

quote:

Sometimes when you don't press a person they are likely to give you things in their own time.
Or you end up finding out you wasted several months on a cheater.


I disclose things when I am comfortable.  A lot of pressuring is not going to make me more comfortable.  If anything it's likely to turn me off.  A guy who can see the value in allowing things to develop will always get farther with me than someone who is forcing things a long at a rapid pace.

This thread has been interesting because it makes it obvious that people do have very different ideas when it comes to what is comfortable regarding moving forward with meeting others.



texancutie2 -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:50:09 PM)

Gosh that is great advice DBG!

Have met a few people from this site, and almost every single one of them were local to me.  No point in discussing the one that wasn't local.  Never know who you will meet just by making friends within your local 'community'.  Even outside of the munches and play parties, a quick cup of coffee can do wonders too.  Forget months and months of online correspondence.  Would rather meet face to face with no strings attached, other than friendship.  If it works out it works out, if it doesn't...that is perfectly fine too.

Sorry to the OP that you had such a rough time, but we all have been there too.  You just get wiser from each experience, and fine tune your BS detector a little more each time.  Or at the very least, you learn to figure out more quickly, that someone is just not interested.  I find some people don't seem to understand plain friendliness, and think it is something more than that as well.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:53:09 PM)

quote:

You just get wiser from each experience, and fine tune your BS detector a little more each time.


good point cutie[:)]



juliaoceania -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:56:11 PM)

quote:

This thread has been interesting because it makes it obvious that people do have very different ideas when it comes to what is comfortable regarding moving forward with meeting others.



My thought on this is that if the men that want to rush things with me had a life, other submissives to talk to, friendships outside of the lifestyle, they would not be putting so much pressure on me. I rather disliked it when I got a lot of expectations of my time and energy before even getting to know me.. it was one of the fastest ways to turn me off.

If it is meant to happen it should flow, and if that flow happens a submissive will naturally want to spend more time communicating, cut her communications with others down on her own, and things progress naturally... pushing someone just pushes them away in my experience.

I know that there was one handsome dom I was talking with at the same time I was talking with my Daddy... he seemed successful, and he seemed very interested in me. When I cancelled us getting together to meet and told him honestly that the reason why was because I was more interested in meeting Sinergy and that there was a spark there that i wanted to pursue... well he sent me an email that was frankly freaky. He told me that if I ever changed my mind I would have to "beg" for his consideration, and that he would not pursue me in a romantic D/s relationship because I had lost my opportunity for that. I can tell you that I thought he was either psycho or I had crushed his ego and he was trying to gain control over the situation by "rejecting" me... either way I was so glad I elected not to meet him. Always trust the gut



sexyred1 -> RE: Sick and tired of online deception... (12/11/2007 8:56:25 PM)

You know, alot of this crap never happened in the good old days before computers. I am telling you, you just met someone somewhere, they asked for your number, they called or did not call, if they called you talked once, made a date and went out. You either hit it off or you did not. You either kept dating and it turned into a relationship or it might be something more casual.

My point? The point is that whatever happened then, it was reality. Online is not reality. Therefore never have high expectations of anyone online, in fact, don't even have low expectations, have NONE.

If you view online as just another way in the myriad of ways you might meet someone you may not run into so much "deception". However, don't think that in real life people are not liars either, but at least you find out later after you met them.

I understand the OP's frustration, when you want to be in a relationship and are not finding one, it is very hard and very grueling to go through this process; online makes it almost like a job interview as opposed to the fun thing that dating should be.

But this is just another hazard of our accelerated, instant gratification, tech world; and believe me, I am not knocking technology, but for those of us of a certain age, I can bet you may agree with me that you heard nothing like these kinds of stories when meeting people the good old fashioned way.

Now, it is par for the course to have only a cell phone, so you cannot fault those who don't give out home numbers; I don't, too easy to track down an address. Again, did not worry about that back then. Photos, men and women lie in photos, that is why meeting fairly soon is the best idea, get it over with, see if chemistry is discernable, and move on. Why talk to a fantasy that may be only in your head?



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