RE: What to do when you don't like what you do.

RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (Full Version)

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patwi -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:41:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 quote: ORIGINAL: patwi His reaction was that of a normal 30 year old man. "Can you get me a Mt. Dew? Huh...oh that's kind of weird." edited to say : This man deosn't get hints unless they are as large as a monster truck. Is your interest just in bdsm or a d/s dynamic as well? Is your desire really to disengage yourself from your kink or educate/convert your husband? My desire is to not be submissive. I don't allow myself to think much further than the "Ok, I need to stop thinking about this" phase.

FRSguy -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:44:30 PM)
If you have submisive feeling but are not "submisive"... than you can be on ocasion sexually. You dont have to jump into the whole damn dynamic just do the things that you like and that satisfy you. Many submisives are things like school teachers, managers and such that are very much in control in there daily lives but then let that control go durring sex sometimes. Its not like this identity slot where its okay now I am this and now I will be that.... Its like a shelf of toys... take what you want ... leave the rest. You dont jump in... you just get your toes wet. Going from vanilla to kink is a rough emotional roller coaster.... but its worth it. I feel for the first time in my life that I am where I want to be but you do have to make it your own... not doing something because you read on the board that someone else does something.

Jeffff -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:46:27 PM)
It is ok to just be kinky..........and kinky means whatever you want it to mean. Jeff

patwi -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:49:07 PM)
I understand what you're saying. But - I'm embarrased to have even the tiniest part of me be that like weak, submissive woman that I detest when I see her in day to day life. I Know using that "W" word will draw the ire of most of you, but this is just the way I feel about it, I am being honest.

Jeffff -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:51:33 PM)
Some of the strongest women I know are submissive. Here and In real life. Are you letting the word twist you.? Submissive......does not mean weak. It has been argued, that it takes a very strong woman too submit at all Jeff

patwi -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:52:31 PM)
Yeah this is why I didn't admit the submissive thing at first. I've heard the "submission = strength" argumetns...I just don't see it.

Jeffff -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:56:35 PM)
Could that be because of your......preconcieved ideas? I am not blowing smoke up that ass of all the sub's here. I have seen and experienced strong submissive women. If you accept that, it follows that your perception may be off? Jeff

FRSguy -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:56:56 PM)
There is a difference between who you are sexualy and who you are in the other parts of your life. The reason why some woman are subs is because they need to blow of steam for a while and doing it through sexuality bolts directly to the animalistic parts of the mind. For instance, people get somewhat humilliated from time to time in daily life but never even react to it because its so pasivly applied to them. Humilliation play gives them something to push against so to speak... they can feel it, react to it and push against it.... Now, not everyone is into that play and I am just using it as an example but I am sure you see the point.

laurell3 -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:57:54 PM)
I think if you hang out here and read some of the frequent posters that are submissives post you might find that being submissve isn't being weak. In fact, quite the contrary. For me the challenge is a big part of the attraction. I'm not going to try to convince you to do something that you aren't comfortable with, however, maybe your viewpoint of it is affecting your ability to understand yourself. I don't think it's really possible to change who we are although one could accept it and chose not to act on it. You're in a dilemna personally and a vanilla marriage to boot, that's a tough challenge. I've attempted to walk away from the lifestyle before, for me it was attempting to walk away from me which cannot be done. I can't say whether it's the same for you.

patwi -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:58:08 PM)
I've tried to think it through on those terms. In the end I just come down to "The weak submit to the strong" sort of line of thought. I just don't see strength in it. And that's why I don't want anything to do with it, myself.

Jeffff -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:59:22 PM)
SInce she has already chimed in, I don't think I am out of bouned if I suggest you read some of Laurells old posts. tell me if you think she is weak? Jeff

laurell3 -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 3:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff If Laurell isn't flamin you....you probably won't get flamed.....:). If you won't accpet therapy.......maybe you can talk it out here?. Can you be more specific about what you don't like? Jeff By the way Jeff I'm not that mean! [8D]

Jeffff -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 4:02:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff If Laurell isn't flamin you....you probably won't get flamed.....:). If you won't accpet therapy.......maybe you can talk it out here?. Can you be more specific about what you don't like? Jeff Hush up and be weak dammit!!!...............lol Jeff By the way Jeff I'm not that mean! [8D]

laurell3 -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 4:02:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff SInce she has already chimed in, I don't think I am out of bouned if I suggest you read some of Laurells old posts. tell me if you think she is weak? Jeff She's not me although she does sound alot like me when I started in the lifestyle. We can't convince you to do something you don't want to OP and we shouldn't. I think hanging out here and participating might help you explore this part of you that you are apprehensive about. good luck

Politesub53 -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 4:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: patwi I've tried to think it through on those terms. In the end I just come down to "The weak submit to the strong" sort of line of thought. I just don't see strength in it. And that's why I don't want anything to do with it, myself. Here is my opinion as a submissive male. Normally men are expected to be the dominant ones, yet thats not how i was feeling. It took me ages to come to terms with being submissive, but you know what ? Thats still my choice, i decide who i submit to and when. i wont stand for being pushed around by anyone, unless its what i want. Within a relationship you can be submissive, even if you only do so in the bedroom, which many guys probably do. Yet outside of the relationship, you still need to be that strong dominant person to get through life. Thats cool too. Also, there is nothing to stop you trying to be submissive and if it really is too much for you, return to how you are now. There really is no shame in deciding to be yourself, the only problem is sometimes societies notions. At the end of it all, its really your choice how you behave in life. Its really good that you are trying to learn about your feelings and not letting them eat away at you. i hope i have made sense and good luck with your choices.

Noah -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 4:15:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: patwi Here's the thing. So - I have submissive fantasties sometimes, deep down I'm afraid I may even be gasps actually submissive. THAT'S what I hate. I don't -want- to bring it up to my husband, because iI don't -want- to be submissive. See my dilemma? So, here's the root of my question. Can a person change? Maybe that's the root or maybe it isn't. In case it is, what change are you asking about? A change from your current position to one in which you accept and explore your submissiveness? Or a change to a position in which you have left your submissive urges behind? I think the blanket advice heard here and elsewhere to "always be yourself" is noise at best if it means "act on all of your persistent urges". Some urges are toward things which simply aren't good. Maybe acting out your submissive urges wouldn't be good for you. One way way to "be yourself" is to take responsibility for your urges and the morality of the behaviors they promote and then make decisions and live by them. Maybe the root of the issue isn't found in the question you cited, though. Maybe it is somewhere closer to this bit: quote: I've examined why I don't like it. All I can come up with is simply - I don't find it a good way to be. I don't like it or the implications as far as what it means for me, personally. If that makes any sense...heh. What does "good" mean when you say it? There are so many possibilities. What are "the implications" as you see or imagine them? Having no experience with the subject at hand it would be very easy for you to attribute implications which don't actually obtain, or to fail to account for important implications which do in fact obtain. So what you've said here makes good sense, in my view. It just doesn't go very far. Or maybe the root of the issue lies closer to your stated (in another post) preference to remain impaired rather than seeking help for a problem you can't resolve yourself. You aren't self-sufficient. No one is. If you tell yourself you are then you aren't being frank. Self-deceit is no more honorable than decieving any other person you care about. It possibly even more dangerous. It is very easy to envision the story of a woman who makes a conscious effort to be ever-so-in-control (e.g. refusing to seek or accept help she needs) and tires of it in a sort of existential way, and (so) longs to submit, to relinquish control. Does this story fit you? I don't know. If the shoe fits, then guess what? It doesn't make you special. There are just scads of other men and women who can identify in an unguarded moment (maybe you haven't one of these in years, I dunno) with this story. But this doesn't mean that you aren't special. You are, and just as deserving as the next person of some fulfillment. So I'm curious about your "should"s. What makes something a should and what makes something a shouldn't? Once you've found and examined that framework which is defining so much of your worldview and self-image then you can evaluate it, accept it, tweak it, or replace large parts of it. But very often--despite societal prejudices to the contrary--questions you feel and then mentally organize into rational inquiries aren't susceptible of rational answers. I'm not advocating irrationality. The alternative way to address some kinds of questions is by active, rather than intellectual, engagement. Sometime you have to live your way to the answer, or rather, the resolution. The resolution sometimes leaves the question quite intact, by the way, but frees you to accept the presence of the unanswered question as a signpost or milestone but move past it all the same.. Sometimes: "You just can't think there from here" as it were. Good luck.

Sky42 -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 4:45:01 PM)
Patwi, first, have you considered that possibly you are not a submissive at all, but a Domme? Perhaps, that's why you are drawn to it. In your fantasies, are you seeing them fromt eh part of the submissive, or from the dom side, or from a third person side? if it's anything other than the submissive side, I'd venture that you are actually dominant. The person in your fantasies having a resemblance to you is possibly becuase you know your body and the way it might react to such things. So, the question would be, to you like to feel the sting, or hear the whip? Second, being 'a submissive' doesn't in any way mean that you are weak in any way. It also doesnt' mean that you are submissive to anyone and everyone. You may only be submissive to that one person who 'clicks' with you. Recognizing y our strength, and willingly following the orders of one who you accept as a Dom, giving them control, doesnt' make you weak. Taking 50 lashes and asking for more doesn't make you weak.

Noah -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 5:02:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: patwi I've tried to think it through on those terms. In the end I just come down to "The weak submit to the strong" sort of line of thought. I just don't see strength in it. And that's why I don't want anything to do with it, myself. This brings some clarity to the picture, I think. If clinging to this stilted, one dimensional theory of interpersonal dynamics means more to you than all the pleasure, meaning and fulfillment you could find by setting this theory aside and actually delving in, then by all means stay on the sidelines, yearning and unfulfilled. Maybe it is a kind of emotional auto-masochism. Maybe you're getting off on this yearning in a way nicely comparable to what happens with people who wish to endure coerced chastity. Your profile identifies you as a switch. It looks like you're topping your own little emotional bottom. Go with it. I'm mean it clearly isn't a case of self-sufficiency but then the insufficiency is apparently the payoff. Still, if you're telling yourself that you've never seen a stronger person person submit to a weaker one then please account for the parents who reorganize their lives for the benefit of their children; healthy nurses who dedicate their lives to the care of the ill and infirm; the burly guy in line at the corner store who lets the little old lady take the last newspaper. I think you'll soon need to speak in terms of kinds and degrees of strength, and various aspects of personalities, and differing meanings actions can have for different people (or the same person in differing situations). Of course to be rational you'd then have to abandon your overarching paradigm of "the weak submit to the strong." But we've already seen that rationality doesn't always rule the day. Then again, why should "weak" be a dirty word? We're all weak. We're all strong. No exceptions. To deny your weakness and only admit to your strengths strikes me as dishonest (not to mention futile.) Some people see dishonesty as a weakness. Your call ... but please don't think I'm being facetious when I suggest that spending the rest of your life inhabiting this unfulfilled yearning--and never "submitting"--might be a fine vocation for you. A lot of people wouldn't understand, but as a Sadist I see it as a lovely prospect for a certain kind of person. Maybe you? Keep posting. I'll enjoy watching you twist.

batshalom -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 5:31:55 PM)
patwi, your posts seem fear-based. You are afraid to open up this side of yourself, and thus you are weak in this instance. It takes a strong woman to surrender herself to a man's whim - try it for any length of time and you'll see what I mean, especially in the early stages when you're so sure that submission is weakness, while you're still feeling your independence. This is not something you will understand until you do it and lose the smugness of being a strong, wildheart, independent "sub." To push back your own desires and needs to attend to someone else's, when his desires don't even begin to match your own, and doing this on a regular basis, requires tremendous strength and self-discipline. Face it - it's scary (which also becomes the draw, and then becomes normal). And maybe Noah's right about you getting off on the self-masochism of non-surrender. I like to withhold things from myself (and to have things withheld from me) too. Before you call me weak, come walk in my shoes for a day. I'm a fulltime mom with two UM's under eight, soon a fulltime doctoral student, have a fulltime career, eight pets, and a mortgage, and I do it all by myself. I identify as a submissive. Weak? Honey, my life makes strong independent wild women beg for mercy.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. (12/13/2007 5:36:30 PM)
The standard disclaimers of the IMO/YMMV variety apply. I'm reminded of a line from the Kushiel novels, by Jacqueline Carey. "That which yields isn't always weak." It might be good for you to contemplate the implications of this quote. However, from what little you've said, you're not ready or willing to get the therapy you need. In that case, the short answer is: No, you can't change your kink. At least not without therapy, and you refuse that. So, the longer answer is this: Keep your fantasies locked away in your head and either A. ignore them, or B. indulge and enjoy them in the privacy of your mind. You never have to act on them. You never have to mention them to anyone. Despite what certain religious zealots would like you to believe, the thought is not the same as the act. There's nothing wrong with imagining whatever you like to imagine. You don't ever have to bring it into the light of day and incorporate it in your life. Beating yourself up over whether or not you have the "right" kink is pointless. Unless you're a masochist and you get off on it. Go on your merry way and give it only the amount of thought with which you feel comfortable.

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