RE: My two impressions of America

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FirmhandKY -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/20/2007 2:27:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado That is the report that suddenly appeared after the embassy made inquiries. The fact that it gives a different reason than the one Stella was given verbally is open to multiple interpretations. Re-printing it in bold large font doesn't make it any more true or above suspicion than when it was first linked to. Do you also believe in The Tooth Fairy ? The report we are using is what stella herself has provided on her website. She doesn't give exact information about it's orgin, but it appears to me to be what was provided to her in Atlanta, giving the reasons for her refusal for admittance. Where did you find the statement that she got it "after the embassy made inquiries"? In her discussion, she doesn't really refute the basic accuracy of the facts, although she does quibble about the burden of proof and such. Unfortunately, her own words here on CM, and on her own webpage would lead me to the exact same conclusion that Customs arrived at: She was attempting to illegally immigrate, and there was a strong possibility of her becoming a financial burden to the citizens of the United States. All the rest of the stuff she throws up is smoke and mirrors, obfuscation and deflection. She's guilty as charged. She got caught. In such a situation, I could easily believe that the story she tells, and the story told by official documents might differ, but I'd place the likely source of the discrepancy from reality on her, rather than on the nameless-unable-to-defend-himself Customs Agent in Atlanta. Firm

cloudboy -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/20/2007 3:24:18 PM)
OK, thanks to you, I went and visited her website. She did commit one glaring no-no: "She stated her trip was for an undetermined length of time claiming everything depended on how things went with friends she met over the internet in Mississippi." She totally could not be saying that, because it undermines what is supposed to be her non-immigrant intent. "At the time of her Application for admission Ms. BAKER possessed around one hundred dollars. She also claimed to have a Bank Card and around one hundred pounds in the Bank in England. She claimed no other assets. She had no evidence of health insurance. She was going through a sex change and appeared to need much medication in this endeavor." This is bad because you don't look self-sufficient, which raises public charge concerns. "I am currently working to relocate to the United States to be with my family and intend to work towards my return to the stage and achieve something which many Americans and others have advised me for years which is to become established in American 'theater'." This also raises concerns of non-immigrant intent. --------- It truly sounds like a fiasco. It seems possible to me that her TS status was a cause for singling her out, but if she'd had the right answers for the border patrol and a good, coherent story of non-immigrant intent, along with more than $200+ dollars to her name, I believe she would have been admitted.

erebus -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/20/2007 7:44:57 PM)
Well, we hear your side of the story. It sounds bad, but I have never heard of anyone being treated this way at the airport or anywhere else, so I am wondering if you are telling the whole story. I'm going to reserve judgement. As far as your feeling that the US should pay for this, I have advice for you...give it up. You were made to feel uncomfortable (if your story is true) for a reason. Perhaps you are just not meant to be here. I believe strongly in fate. Did you give the officials a hard time? (not a good idea). You are a guest here, so you should not demand rights that you really don't have, being a guest. I suggest you take some time and cool down. Write a letter if you want. As far as going beyond that, I don't think you will get anywhere. Remember we were attacked by our enemy on September 11, and no one is going to let it happen again. So our guard is up. I'm sorry you feel the way that you do, but, again, your story seems so out-of-line of what I know that I just wonder if it is accurately recounted.

erebus -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/20/2007 7:48:41 PM)
quote: Obviously, the US isn't a Free Country. That is why you have been arrested and executed. Sorry you live in a fascist country. Oh, you are still here? What about this not being a free country?

cloudboy -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 9:18:01 AM)
It seems to me you are reaching for a "just" reason to explain what happened to Stella; e.g. a 9-11 reach, "your story seems so out-of-line," "Did you give the officials a hard time," and "Perhaps you are just not meant to be here." To see things from Stella's POV, imagine traveling to Britain, getting bogged down in red tape with by its border patrol, locked up for two days, and then refused entry and sent back to the USA. As you know, Britain has suffered terrorist attacks too. Its guard "is up." All in all, I think you miss the point of this fiasco. What's odd about Stella's story is that she's from a first world country and was still denied entry into the USA. She allegedly had a valid passport and friends in the USA she was visiting. Most entrants get into the USA with these facts in place. What seems to have happened was the border guys were spooked that she was TS, and therefore gave her entry into the US greater scrutiny. When she tripped up on the questioning, then they had grounds to deny her entry. Had she been better prepared how to answer the questions, she probably would have been admitted.

FirmhandKY -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 10:06:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Had she been better prepared how to answer the questions, she probably would have been admitted. This I can agree with. quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy What seems to have happened was the border guys were spooked that she was TS, and therefore gave her entry into the US greater scrutiny. When she tripped up on the questioning, then they had grounds to deny her entry. This, however, I can find no logical support for. How do you arrive at this conclusion - the part in bold - as the proximate cause of her problems in entry? Firm

cloudboy -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 10:35:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy What seems to have happened was the border guys were spooked that she was TS, and therefore gave her entry into the US greater scrutiny. When she tripped up on the questioning, then they had grounds to deny her entry. ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY This, however, I can find no logical support for. How do you arrive at this conclusion - the part in bold - as the proximate cause of her problems in entry? Firm Obviously, I don't know the answer and am guessing. It could have been the passport, too, which triggered scrutiny. Once you are under the microscope, tho, you need to have the right answers. In general, a UK traveler doesn't have a problem entering the USA the same as a US traveler has little trouble entering the UK.

AAkasha -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 11:24:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy What seems to have happened was the border guys were spooked that she was TS, and therefore gave her entry into the US greater scrutiny. When she tripped up on the questioning, then they had grounds to deny her entry. ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY This, however, I can find no logical support for. How do you arrive at this conclusion - the part in bold - as the proximate cause of her problems in entry? Firm Obviously, I don't know the answer and am guessing. It could have been the passport, too, which triggered scrutiny. Once you are under the microscope, tho, you need to have the right answers. In general, a UK traveler doesn't have a problem entering the USA the same as a US traveler has little trouble entering the UK. You have trouble entering the country when you don't have the right answers for the questions they ask every single person. "What is the purpose of your trip?" "Who are you staying with?" "How long are you staying?" If you answer any of those questions in a way that generates any suspicion they will pull you aside and grill you. Akasha

FirmhandKY -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 12:23:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha You have trouble entering the country when you don't have the right answers for the questions they ask every single person. "What is the purpose of your trip?" "Who are you staying with?" "How long are you staying?" If you answer any of those questions in a way that generates any suspicion they will pull you aside and grill you. Akasha Exactly. The proximate cause (the one action that inexorably leads to the rest of the events in question) is stella's suspicious answers to these questions, not her transgender status. Her transgender status, and it's implications for her financial status while within the US certainly becomes a relevant area to explore to answer the questions "Does she intend to permanently immigrate?" and "Is there a likelihood that she'll become a burden on the taxpayers and citizens of the US during her stay, regardless of her immigration intentions?" Now, inappropriate comments by officials that are intended to be demeaning to her are unprofessional. However, questions about her physical status, and the degree of her transformation (if any) to the physical attributes of the female sex are wholly appropriate when attempting to determine the best, most appropriate handling and accommodations for her, as well as the likelihood or possibility for her needing medical care within the US. Again, I suspect that she showed a litle 'tude towards some of the officials. Not a good idea in any circumstances, but especially towards bureaucratic officials who have suspicions about you and legal authority over you anyway. This doesn't excuse any unprofessional behavior on the part of any government official ... but neither does it prove malice or prejudice on their part in their decision to refuse her entry into the US simply because of her transgender status, nor does it prove that it was her transgender status that started the chain of events that lead to her being refused entry. But that claim certainly got a lot of sympathy here for her, now didn't it? I suspect because she played to her own stereotypes, and the stereotypes and ignorance to some readers and posters here on CM. Firm

luckydog1 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 12:35:27 PM)
Firm, don't forget she was using a 5 year old child for sympathy in her original tear jerk story. I am shocked and astonished that no one else sees a problem with that. Or with her being "part of the life" of a 5 years old Child of a contact on a BDSM website.

Alumbrado -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 3:29:30 PM)
quote: The proximate cause (the one action that inexorably leads to the rest of the events in question) is stella's suspicious answers to these questions, not her transgender status. That's your opinion, not proof.

Alumbrado -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 3:32:39 PM)
quote: I am shocked and astonished that no one else sees a problem with that. Or with her being "part of the life" of a 5 years old Child of a contact on a BDSM website. That's your opinion. Maybe you would be happier on a website where you won't be so easily shocked by exposure to people who are different from you.

FirmhandKY -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 3:46:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: The proximate cause (the one action that inexorably leads to the rest of the events in question) is stella's suspicious answers to these questions, not her transgender status. That's your opinion, not proof. True. I'm not disagreeing with your statement. It is my opinion. I think I've stated several times that we can not know for a fact what happened, and why, exactly. I'd certainly be interested in seeing a detailed exposition of how it was her gender status that was more likely than not the reason for her refusal to be admitted. Firm

TheHeretic -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 6:26:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado That's your opinion. It's my opinion as well as Luckydog's, Alumbrado. And in light of the behaviors exhibited by our OP in the progression of this thread, I'm more convinced than ever that it was nothing but a self-serving play for sympathy, with no regard for who else might be harmed. People who aren't ignoring the inconvenient facts everywhere, in a desperate attempt to fit this tale into an "America baa-aaad" paradigm, might have noticed just how much risk Stella has placed upon other participants in this little drama. For their sakes, I'm going to hope like hell these reports get round-filed, rather than investigated, in every official and news office they wind up in. I don't think the people involved would like the outcome very much.

DomMeinCT -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 7:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha You have trouble entering the country when you don't have the right answers for the questions they ask every single person. "What is the purpose of your trip?" "Who are you staying with?" "How long are you staying?" If you answer any of those questions in a way that generates any suspicion they will pull you aside and grill you. Akasha Agreed. I wasn't there for her experience entering the country, but having just returned from England (I'm an American citizen), I can say that my experience was a bit intimidating (and I'm not easily rattled). When I got called up to come through Immigration, the officer interacted with me in a deadpan voice and face, and didn't indicate with even a blink whether my answers were appropriate. Questions included: What was the purpose of your trip? How long were you there? Where did you travel when you were there? Were you on any farms or did you visit rural areas? Do you have anything to declare? Who did you visit when you were there? What did you do when you were there? A couple of the questions were similar, but asked in different ways. Throughout the interaction, he did not take his eyes off my face. It was very clear that he was looking to not just hear my answers, but watch my reaction to his questions.

Sanity -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 8:04:08 PM)
He wasn't hootin' and hollerin' about your looks like some hillbilly clown? He was acting like a professional? quote: ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT Agreed. I wasn't there for her experience entering the country, but having just returned from England (I'm an American citizen), I can say that my experience was a bit intimidating (and I'm not easily rattled). When I got called up to come through Immigration, the officer interacted with me in a deadpan voice and face, and didn't indicate with even a blink whether my answers were appropriate. Questions included: What was the purpose of your trip? How long were you there? Where did you travel when you were there? Were you on any farms or did you visit rural areas? Do you have anything to declare? Who did you visit when you were there? What did you do when you were there? A couple of the questions were similar, but asked in different ways. Throughout the interaction, he did not take his eyes off my face. It was very clear that he was looking to not just hear my answers, but watch my reaction to his questions.

DomMeinCT -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 8:08:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity He wasn't hootin' and hollerin' about your looks like some hillbilly clown? He was acting like a professional? Well....I didn't fly into Atlanta...but no, he was completely professional.

TheHeretic -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 8:49:41 PM)
Another favorite method is to simply spend a few minutes clicking around on the computer. Nervous people hate the silence and will fill it with all sorts of self-incriminating noise. I wonder if that's when she made the reported comments about maybe getting married.

brightspot -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 9:11:29 PM)
*Stella,* *Sooo sorry you needed to deal with all that crap!* *The U.S.A.'s current administration is wanting* *to show how "some" people coming into this country* *should be considered a threat [>:]. It's all in the game to* *keep the people in fear, until the election.* *I think your story should be front page WEB at least, I* *have not seen anything about it.....have not read the* *"whole" thread, so maybe you have answered this, but why,* *has this not gotten out here in the U.S.* *Hummmm..Just saying[;)].* *Missy.*

Griswold -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/21/2007 9:16:21 PM)
I have two impressions of America; 1) It's incredible (sue me...I'm a citizen). 2) It's fucking awesome. (Sorry..I'm a stockholder).

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