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RE: Gas Prices - 8/20/2005 2:02:41 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

Well, just as an example--the CEO of Enron was a personal friend of the President of the United States.

And speaking of which: you know about the sweet deal he pulled when he owned the Texas Rangers, right?

Lordandmaster


quote:

I cannot understand why the SEC has not brought more prosecutions and more people are not serving time.

pinkpleasures


No, but i know Cheney's old company, Halburten, got huge no-bid contracts from the Dept. of Defense and has done a crappy job of performing on them.

Sucks to be Republican these days. i'm developing empathy with Deomcrats who had to put up with Clinton.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/20/2005 2:03:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Gas Prices - 8/20/2005 2:07:22 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		To make a long story short, he owned the Texas Rangers, used his Dad's political connections to get the municipality to build a new stadium for him, and then sold the team at a massive profit.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Gas Prices - 8/20/2005 2:23:15 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

To make a long story short, he owned the Texas Rangers, used his Dad's political connections to get the municipality to build a new stadium for him, and then sold the team at a massive profit.

Lordandmaster


There are a LOT of stories about brother Jeb in Florida. i have enough of an insider's view to know some are true..like selling executive positions.

The foregoing is for entertainment purposes only and does not purport to report any fact known or implied.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/20/2005 2:29:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 9:01:32 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

I'd like to see the price of gas go sky high, partly for the sheer entertainment value of it. It will be fun (in a sick way) to see how Americans respond to $3+/gallon gas prices. Bob


Would you really? What about the thousands of people who are already living paycheck-to-paycheck... or worse? And if $3.00+ per gallon proved to be a prolonged situation, filling their tanks wouldn't be the only pain they would feel. The cost of consumer goods would also noticably increase.

subfever


Yes I would...really and truly. Here in southern NM, these poor, paycheck-to-paycheck people are driving Ford F-350s, Chevy Avalanches, Navigators, Suburbans, and other monstrosities. No doubt, they sacrifice a lot for the privileges of driving those pigs. I say let them sacrifice more. Otherwise, they would just have to waste the money on their children, and what fun would that be?

Bob



That's a very interesting comment.

In your opinion, what percentage of poor people in the paycheck-to-paycheck or less category are driving these gas guzzling monstrosities?

There are far too many of these monstrosities being driven around in my area as well. What I find amazing is that the great majority of them on the streets on any given day are being occupied by a single person. Unless the occupant is a very large person, this seems like such an enormous waste!

subfever

(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 9:27:56 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I cannot understand why the SEC has not brought more prosecutions and more people are not serving time.


Instead of focusing on more prosecutions, I'd rather see the SEC focus on protecting the people's money in the first place!

quote:

What is the difference between what happened at Enron and robbing an elderly woman at gunpoint?


The victims in the Enron debacle willingly handed their money over, via stock purchases, due to their own greed. The elderly women being robbed at gunpoint hand their money over due to the robber's greed.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 9:35:49 AM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

I'd like to see the price of gas go sky high, partly for the sheer entertainment value of it. It will be fun (in a sick way) to see how Americans respond to $3+/gallon gas prices. Bob


Would you really? What about the thousands of people who are already living paycheck-to-paycheck... or worse? And if $3.00+ per gallon proved to be a prolonged situation, filling their tanks wouldn't be the only pain they would feel. The cost of consumer goods would also noticably increase.

subfever


Yes I would...really and truly. Here in southern NM, these poor, paycheck-to-paycheck people are driving Ford F-350s, Chevy Avalanches, Navigators, Suburbans, and other monstrosities. No doubt, they sacrifice a lot for the privileges of driving those pigs. I say let them sacrifice more. Otherwise, they would just have to waste the money on their children, and what fun would that be?

Bob



That's a very interesting comment.

In your opinion, what percentage of poor people in the paycheck-to-paycheck or less category are driving these gas guzzling monstrosities?

There are far too many of these monstrosities being driven around in my area as well. What I find amazing is that the great majority of them on the streets on any given day are being occupied by a single person. Unless the occupant is a very large person, this seems like such an enormous waste!

subfever


Well, this isn't scientific but it appears that more than half of the people here drive the big rigs. People don't earn much here, so I guess you have two wage earners paying a big part of their earnings for the payments and fuel. That is why it would be so great to see gas prices go over $3/gal. It would seriously hurt them and maybe force them to drive something a little less American.

Bob

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 6:10:05 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Not exactly. They were lied to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The victims in the Enron debacle willingly handed their money over, via stock purchases, due to their own greed.


(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 7:16:01 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		In my opinion, it will continue to rise and $3.00 a gal, will be the accepted norm, without complaint.
Damn, I am full of gas and if everytime I flaggelated I could raise the price another nickel or so....I'd own Friken Suadi Arabia!

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 7:30:38 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

(This is one of many reasons why I don't believe in laissez-faire capitalism: the only goal of a corporation is to make a profit, and their pursuit of that goal is not necessarily in line with the greater goals of society. I remember we had a discussion about this a couple of months ago, but it kind of degenerated.)


Lam…..

No offense brother, but looking at the petroleum industry is a terrible way for one to evaluate capitalism…

Capitalism only works well when there is competition. When the competition dwindles, the competitors get to know each other better, and then they collude. It happens all the time, whether it be the Mafia or the neighborhood markets in a small town. Our anti trust laws are supposed protect us, but much of the time they are only selectively enforced.

As far as the Petroleum industry: I actually blame congress for approving all the mergers. I think there’s two cases set to go before the high court, that provide ample proof the oil companies have colluded to fix prices.

I think if you want a good example of capitalism, one needs to look no farther than the consumer electronics industry. It’s thriving. And because of capitalism, there’s constantly new innovation in the market place.

Personally, since oil is a necessity for everyday life and there are no other viable alternatives yet, I think the whole Petroleum industry needs to be converted over to a public utility and operate with no more than a six percent return on profit. And then, that six percent can only be re-invested back into R/D and used to find new sources of energy.

A far as the old thread : I enjoyed it thoroughly, and read all the posts twice, even though I missed part of it due to a short vacation.


JMHO



- The Ranger



_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 7:31:11 PM   
Youtalkingtome


Posts: 112
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

In my opinion, it will continue to rise and $3.00 a gal, will be the accepted norm, without complaint.
Damn, I am full of gas and if everytime I flaggelated I could raise the price another nickel or so....I'd own Friken Suadi Arabia!

You will be correct. That is the plan.It won't stop untill it is high like it is in Europe.

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 7:37:30 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

To make a long story short, he owned the Texas Rangers, used his Dad's political connections to get the municipality to build a new stadium for him, and then sold the team at a massive profit.


I think the Ranger fans would tell ya he did something a lot worse than that - He traded Sammy Sosa to the White Sox! ; }



- The Ranger

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 7:45:23 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

If you ask me, I say the consortium of crooks from the Petroleum industry are leading this nation down a stray path to catastrophe.

- The Ranger



Would you limit this consortium to the petroleum industry?

subfever



Absolutely not! Look over at the Pharmaceutical industry - It's the greedy twin brother as far as I'm concerned.

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 7:45:57 PM   
Youtalkingtome


Posts: 112
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

I'd like to see the price of gas go sky high, partly for the sheer entertainment value of it. It will be fun (in a sick way) to see how Americans respond to $3+/gallon gas prices. Bob


Would you really? What about the thousands of people who are already living paycheck-to-paycheck... or worse? And if $3.00+ per gallon proved to be a prolonged situation, filling their tanks wouldn't be the only pain they would feel. The cost of consumer goods would also noticably increase.

subfever


Yes I would...really and truly. Here in southern NM, these poor, paycheck-to-paycheck people are driving Ford F-350s, Chevy Avalanches, Navigators, Suburbans, and other monstrosities. No doubt, they sacrifice a lot for the privileges of driving those pigs. I say let them sacrifice more. Otherwise, they would just have to waste the money on their children, and what fun would that be?

Bob



That's a very interesting comment.

In your opinion, what percentage of poor people in the paycheck-to-paycheck or less category are driving these gas guzzling monstrosities?

There are far too many of these monstrosities being driven around in my area as well. What I find amazing is that the great majority of them on the streets on any given day are being occupied by a single person. Unless the occupant is a very large person, this seems like such an enormous waste!

subfever


Well, this isn't scientific but it appears that more than half of the people here drive the big rigs. People don't earn much here, so I guess you have two wage earners paying a big part of their earnings for the payments and fuel. That is why it would be so great to see gas prices go over $3/gal. It would seriously hurt them and maybe force them to drive something a little less American.

Bob


Sometimes a large car or truck is needed.And some people need a new car or truck.And because of this they can only afford one new car or truck.I assume some of the people you are talking about have the big car or truck for this reason.
Like myself.I have 1988 Ford F250 4x4 and only drive it when I need it.It gets 12 mpg. I have a 1999 Ford Taurus that is my daily driver and it gets 51 mpg on the highway and 39 mpg combined and 31 mpg in the city.And My Harley gets 64 mpg.
Not everyone that has a big car or truck drives it everyday.Some do.
What do you drive and what do you get for mileage??

(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 8:30:00 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm just curious to know whether Sammy--like Palmeiro--started his roids as a Ranger. All under Bush's nose...

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I think the Ranger fans would tell ya he did something a lot worse than that - He traded Sammy Sosa to the White Sox! ; }


(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 8:33:05 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Your 1999 Ford Taurus gets 51 MPG on the highway and 39 MPG combined? That's very hard to believe, since the U.S. government tested that same make and model, and got 27 MPG and 22 MPG, respectively:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/15100.shtml

(That's several miles per gallon less than for comparable Asian midsize sedans, by the way. Not a coincidence, in my view, that Ford is gasping right now.)

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome
I have a 1999 Ford Taurus that is my daily driver and it gets 51 mpg on the highway and 39 mpg combined and 31 mpg in the city.


(in reply to Youtalkingtome)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 8:44:46 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm just curious to know whether Sammy--like Palmeiro--started his roids as a Ranger. All under Bush's nose...

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I think the Ranger fans would tell ya he did something a lot worse than that - He traded Sammy Sosa to the White Sox! ; }




I bet he did, because that's about the same time Bonds started juicen'.
Not to take it off course, but a good budy of mine used to use the stuff, and he was a great athlete. But ya know.... we used to go the batting cages for fun, and he'd swing and miss everytime. Roids don't do much for the hand/eye thing.


- The Ranger




< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 8/21/2005 8:49:46 PM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 8:54:13 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, but if you look at the statistics of some of the high-profile batters who have admitted to using steroids or who are strongly implicated, there is a clear pattern:

Ken Caminiti
Rafael Palmeiro
Jason Giambi
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Jose Canseco
Sammy Sosa

These are all players who were excellent athletes to begin with, and one or two of them might have made the Hall of Fame WITHOUT steroids, but all of them (with the possible exception of Canseco) had huge improvements in performance that I don't think they would have enjoyed otherwise.

So I don't think you can take an ordinary athlete, pump some steroids into him, and make him a Hall of Fame candidate, but it's clear that you can take a superior professional player, pump some steroids into him, and turn him into one of the best players in history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

But ya know.... we used to go the batting cages for fun, and he'd swing and miss everytime. Roids don't do much for the hand/eye thing.


(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 9:16:05 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, but if you look at the statistics of some of the high-profile batters who have admitted to using steroids or who are strongly implicated, there is a clear pattern:

Ken Caminiti
Rafael Palmeiro
Jason Giambi
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Jose Canseco
Sammy Sosa

These are all players who were excellent athletes to begin with, and one or two of them might have made the Hall of Fame WITHOUT steroids, but all of them (with the possible exception of Canseco) had huge improvements in performance that I don't think they would have enjoyed otherwise.

So I don't think you can take an ordinary athlete, pump some steroids into him, and make him a Hall of Fame candidate, but it's clear that you can take a superior professional player, pump some steroids into him, and turn him into one of the best players in history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

But ya know.... we used to go the batting cages for fun, and he'd swing and miss everytime. Roids don't do much for the hand/eye thing.





Oh Hell ya.... I remember when Canseco and McGwire were the Bash brothers, and McGwire sucked. And look at Giambi now.... I completely agree.


- The Ranger


Edited to add : That friend of mine that used to juice' , now goes through a whole bottle of rolaids every other day - He eats them like candy - And we both believe it's from the juice'

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 8/21/2005 9:25:03 PM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 10:59:21 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Not exactly. They were lied to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The victims in the Enron debacle willingly handed their money over, via stock purchases, due to their own greed.




Yes, they certainly were lied to!

I simply pointed out the differences between the two examples given. Quite frankly, I didn't do a very good job of doing so. If given a second chance, I would word it a little differently. How about this?:

"The victims in the Enron debacle, due to their own greed, willingly risked their money to a high-flying stock where the upper management eventually proved to be corrupt."

Not quite the same as a helpless old woman being robbed at gunpoint.

subfever







< Message edited by subfever -- 8/21/2005 11:03:59 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Gas Prices - 8/21/2005 11:10:22 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Sometimes a large car or truck is needed.And some people need a new car or truck.And because of this they can only afford one new car or truck.I assume some of the people you are talking about have the big car or truck for this reason.
Like myself.I have 1988 Ford F250 4x4 and only drive it when I need it.It gets 12 mpg. I have a 1999 Ford Taurus that is my daily driver and it gets 51 mpg on the highway and 39 mpg combined and 31 mpg in the city.And My Harley gets 64 mpg.
Not everyone that has a big car or truck drives it everyday.Some do.
What do you drive and what do you get for mileage??


I drive a Honda product. In ideal conditions, I get 31 MPG on the highway and 22 MPG in the city.

(in reply to Youtalkingtome)
Profile   Post #: 60
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