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RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 6:26:59 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		First off, Buddyboy,...Actually that is kind of fun to say.....Buddyboy, Buddyboy, Buddyboy!

If I could go back and change things I think I would have made an outstanding Buddyboy. Things would have been different, I tell ya. A name like Buddyboy commands respect....I probably wouldn't have posted my lust for birdwatching or my zeal for antiques in my profile until I got to know my most worthy of subs a little better....I would have been the most powerful Buddyboy to have ever called Chicago home. You would all bow to Buddyboy....Alas, if only ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

Anywhooo, Buddyboy I must agree with you at this point. It's because I really only have two choices, to agree or object, and due to my A.D.D. I really no longer care or can even remember the damn question that was posed. However, since it is the Holidays and I like your name and I know how so many people out here value my opinion...I choose to agree.

God Bless you Buddyboy!

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 6:30:06 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thisgirl72

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Well,women in a lot of western cultures seem to have been trained to see sex as a bargaining tool. Not surprising we see it here too-very nilla. As far as submitting? Most only submit to what they want to begin with-and just go after a Top to facillitate it anyhow.  So of course they have these big shopping lists. Great way to conveniently objectify a relationship.


Even though a person may identify as a submissive or slave, do they enter a relationship in that role? Should they? I don't think so. More likely than not, their first experiences with each other will be more along the lines of a top/bottom dynamic than anything else. Once the trust grows, the submissive will relinquish more power if that's the direction the relationship will take. It's not a matter of objectifying a relationship, it's just the progression of things. I don't think most Dominants or Masters would really want someone giving them everything right off the bat. There has to be some boundaries in place until everyone knows what they're getting into.  Now some relationships (many even) never make it out of the top/bottom dynamic but as long as the parties involved are satisfied with that, it's all good.


Peple put that cart before the horse. You need to find a man before you can find a master.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 6:30:19 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Yep.. sour grapes.  And I just have to wonder if this is the same guy in another guise who asked the question
"Is it wrong for a submissive to make judgements on whether to serve due to sexual and intellectual attraction to their Dominant, or the lack there of?"

Perhaps, or perhaps just an all too common theme among a certain type seeking easy conquests... and discovering that submissives, in fact, do not = mindless sex toys free for use by anyone.

For which I will simply offer just three words of advice...

block
delete
ignore


Agreed

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 7:46:08 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Midear Julia,

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You make it sound as though quality submissives grow on trees, you know, there are female HNG too... and desirable mates, whether male or female, are hard to come by....


Oh, absolutlely- still I suspect that when we grind off the Daytrippers, freakseekers, confused, desperate and clueless, there's still a surplus of submissives, but that may just be the fact that they, of course, hound me<g>.

quote:

Not to sound sexist either, but men tend to be the aggressors whether there is an over abundance of women or not in my experience.


can't put my finger on it, but there's a line between (I think) aggressor and pursuer... Fuzzy words, damnit. I mean, I may intitiate- follow up, but I am not going to 'chase' anyone. If she's not smart enough to jump at the chance, she's too dumb for me to mate with<g>.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence
 
 
Why must there be pursuit of any kind on either side of the slash?..Cannot both show interest and go on from there? Must one or the other show or prove that they are worthy?.....Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 7:49:10 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP, would you not prefer reciprocal interest ,rather than ,submissive to any, or all?....Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 8:38:41 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

can't put my finger on it, but there's a line between (I think) aggressor and pursuer... Fuzzy words, damnit. I mean, I may intitiate- follow up, but I am not going to 'chase' anyone. If she's not smart enough to jump at the chance, she's too dumb for me to mate with<g>. 
 

 
I always thought that a man pursued if he thought the woman worthwhile enough... chasing is a turn off no matter what the gender of the chaser....

I have always thought men know what they want, and if they want me they will let me know. If they don't want me, they won't pursue... because the kind of men I want tend to be the ones that get what they want, I did not have to pursue them at all... my Daddy is an example, he wanted it, so he pursued it, and now I am his. I did not have to chase him, but if I wouldn't have let him know that I was just as interested in him he wouldn't have continued to pursue me... he wants a willing victim... smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 9:23:25 PM   
AllietheKitten


Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		The submissive is the one who is in the position of most danger. S/he is the one that takes the risk-is put in restraints, is flogged or beaten or playing a "rape" scene. If s/he isn't choosy the sub runs the risk of being seriously injured, both emotionally and physically. A sub has every right to be choosy about what sort of Dom/me they will accept.

However, it is also the Dom/me's job to establish the tone from the get go. When I was subbing I always hated a Dom who would approach me with orders, all: "If you want to serve me do *this*." I felt like I wanted the person to take the time to get to know me before they thought they had the right to order me around. When I tried my hand at Domming I approached subs the same way-with respect and genuine interest in who they were are a person and not as an object of fantasy. There's time enough for that later.

D/s is about negotiation. A scene and a relationship are negotiated. Both parties have a right to carefully screen who they chose to play with. IMO, failing to do that results in harm and heartache.

_____________________________

I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
~Rush

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 10:06:39 PM   
BabyDollVanIsle


Posts: 103
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline 		Great post, Julia.

i too like to be courted. i was confused at first, as courting didn't seem to be much in the offering from Doms when i first joined Collarme. but then finally i was approached by someone really genuine and sincere. sincerity and openness is the best form of courting i could imagine.

as to the original thread.. nothing is more indicative of selfishness, and immaturity in a human being than a complaint about other people having the ability to make choices not under thier control for their benefit.

ever hear of free will, and human rights?

one of life's biggest challenges that we all face equally, is about learning to respect and be sensitive to other people, so they share themselves willingly with us. that applies just as much to submissives as to Dominants.

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 10:19:28 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		How interesting and quaint....sex as currency. Well, if you feel that way then let's use a  money metaphor.

You can overspend and go into bankruptcy or you can invest wisely and end up with a richer relationship.

And role reversals? LOL that is hilarious. You feel it is being dominant to exercise preference? Oh boy...

The OP is wrong on so many levels, most have been touched upon already. Suffice it to say that there is no skewed playing field, in my opinion both men and women are probably not following up as well as they should; note: I did not say be overly aggressive, but in following up to show interest.

People seem to forget that in the end, it is not about being sub/Dom, it is about finding a compatible person for you and that in itself takes work, effort and luck.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 12/30/2007 10:21:49 PM >

(in reply to BabyDollVanIsle)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 10:35:45 PM   
BabyDollVanIsle


Posts: 103
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline 		yes, sexyred...

one of the things i realized with thought.. was that i was looking for the right man.. not the right kink or even the right dom. i also dated some vanilla men...
but it is a mature Dom who has gotten my interest.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/30/2007 10:58:36 PM   
taintedgypsy


Posts: 228
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BabyDollVanIsle

yes, sexyred...

one of the things i realized with thought.. was that i was looking for the right man.. not the right kink or even the right dom. i also dated some vanilla men...
but it is a mature Dom who has gotten my interest.


I would agree with this ... I am looking for the right partner in "all" of lifes adventures not just the BDSM ones ... but if he is the right man for me it should flow pretty naturally that he will be a real kinky fellow lol.

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Equal Opportunity Slut (Yeah ... best of both worlds lol)

warm smiles to all

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 12:57:56 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Buddyboy,

your question is backwards, actually. Why on earth would a dominant pursue a submissive? There's too many of them out there, and not enough dominants to go around (when you discount the HNGs, the mad and the bad).

the notion of "the game" presupposes that men are indiscrimant, that they surrender their power of choice right out of the chute. Which is a pretty poor way to procede, IMO.

Lawrence


OP: I haven't read everything here just yet, but this is a pretty good reasoning behind it.

If you follow girls, needing them to give you sex, you're submitting yourself to them before you even talk to them.

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 2:01:46 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		If you look at a vanilla dating site the women outnumber the men. On here the men outnumber the women, but if you look deeper as TopCat has said, I suspect female submissives outnumber Doms if we whittle out the clueless.

My anecdotal evidence is the female sub/male Dom ratio of the posters whom we learn much about. Their quests and successes are obvious enough and the Doms seem to have the upper hand. Does that mean a submissive should immediately accept every Dom? Of course not and it's too silly to comment upon.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 3:45:46 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

If you follow girls............you're submitting yourself to them before you even talk to them.



Not necessarily. From a personal point of view, I'm more than prepared to hunt one who fits my agenda; there's a world of difference between chasing any woman, and chasing a woman worth chasing.

Women who have their act together will want evidence to suggest you have your life in order; you're going to have to impress this upon them, which will equate to a certain amount of chasing. In the event she's impressed with your CV, then you can begin to turn the tables - slow, steady progess wins the race.

Edited to add: think of a lion with a gazelle hanging out of its mouth; the lion won't be overly concerned with regard to whom made the running, and the gazelle won't be feeling overly dominant.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 12/31/2007 3:50:09 AM >

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 4:42:29 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Edited to add: think of a lion with a gazelle hanging out of its mouth; the lion won't be overly concerned with regard to whom made the running, and the gazelle won't be feeling overly dominant.


omg.. that's just too funny!!!

disturbing.... but funny!

juliet

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 7:04:52 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Your question is backwards, actually. Why on earth would a dominant pursue a submissive?


Bingo.


My Daddy approached me, a submissive woman.
We're both quite pleased with the outcome.

As for the OP...submissive or not, the women on this site have the right (and hopefully the sense) to choose their partners wisely, based on their needs and desires. There is no dichotomy in this reality at all. Perhaps you are over-thinking this.



< Message edited by justheather -- 12/31/2007 7:08:00 AM >

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 7:19:09 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I have a lot more interests going on in my life than who is on top in the bedroom. Roles are pretty meaningless to me. How I interact in the sort of life I prefer to live is.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 7:23:03 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		And as an aside,there are probably about three to four more times sub women on sites like this than men. As has been mentioned, if you weed out those who can't even qualify as competent tops.

Get into guys who can actually sustain a D/s thing (as in controlling thier egos-thinking with the big head) and I'd say you might have about a ten to one. With the women being the majority. We would see more success stories otherwise.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 7:44:31 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

We would see more success stories otherwise.


Not everyone publishes his or her success story.
Let's bear that in mind.



_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Curious dichotomy - 12/31/2007 9:28:47 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

And as an aside,there are probably about three to four more times sub women on sites like this than men. As has been mentioned, if you weed out those who can't even qualify as competent tops.

Get into guys who can actually sustain a D/s thing (as in controlling thier egos-thinking with the big head) and I'd say you might have about a ten to one. With the women being the majority. We would see more success stories otherwise.


I have seen this before, that if one weeds out all the competent tops that there are more competent submissives than dominants (femsub/maledom)... It is like there is an assumption that it does not take much competence to be a submissive... and that to me is not true... finding competent partners is the key. It really isn't rocket science to spank someone with a flogger, just like it isn't rocket science to bend over for one.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/31/2007 9:29:44 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 60
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