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RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:02:18 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

What would you say......other than 'take her to 'Old Africa'?

There are BME artists that will do this.

Otherwise, an electrocautery pen might be his best option. I have only seen this twice. One was done with some sort of cautery pen, the other surgically. The latter bled a lot. I would strongly advise against risking the surgical option without qualified personell to do it, and I doubt there are many qualified people who would risk it. A cautery pen is supposed to limit the bleeding, at least. Either way, you will want to research it a lot.

I would file knowing the person's blood type and other vital medical information under "necessary precautions."
Whatever you do, if something fucks up, do call 911 without delay.
(You know this, but some might not.)

Shipping anyone off to Africa, or not helping them out at all, probably raises the risk of yet another Darwin Award being passed out; whether that's a good thing or a bad thing in your book is another matter. Read up on it, explain it to them well enough that they fully understand the risks. At that point, they will probably discard the idea. If they don't drop it, then at least they will be less likely to get someone killed in the process.

It's not really as simple as taking a razor or scissor to the vagina; tons of blood vessels etc.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to MsBearlee)

Post #: 21

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:03:13 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Here's a new one (for me):

"My slave wants to have her labia and clit hood removed and I don't want to do it myself.
Do you know of any resources or "kink friendly" Doctors in [my/your] area.

What would you say......other than 'take her to 'Old Africa'?

<sigh> I just tend to iggy these guys as rabble rousers.

What say you?

I'd say if she wants to do something as his slave that he doesn't want her to either;
1. he's not her Master
2. she's not his slave
3. he's lying, and/or a coward and wants someone else to do it for him without her consent
4. is out of Africa (no apologies)
5. is out of his mind (pity)
6. needs to allow her to email me privately to inform her about how much she would miss her clit
ed to add;
7. considers compassion and contemplates castration
ed to repeat
7. considers compassion and contemplates castration as sometimes it's worth repeating oneself in situations like this

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 12/30/2007 3:06:51 PM >

(in reply to MsBearlee)

Post #: 22

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:04:36 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

The difference to me is that society isn't pressuring her to have this done. Assuming the dominant isn't either, this is something that she wants. Having been there myself, changing your body in the ways that you want can be remarkably empowering.

We don't know whether society or anyone is pressuring her to have it done, so I don't think that line in the sand can be made either. Just like your earlier line in the sand about female genital mutilation being where girls are literally forced to do the procedure and she isn't being forced so it can't possibly be similar isn't accurate.

quote:

I'm simply not willing to condemn her, her dominant and compare the whole mess to mutilation off a few sentences probably taken out of context. I really can't judge someone's decision to alter their bodies without talking to them personally.

By stating our opinions in this thread, we are all judging - you're just judging it to be sexy and possibly empowering. And literally the procedure is called female genital mutilation, thats just a literal fact (it used to be known as female circumcision but people felt it underscored the seriousness of the procedure).

I guess I the name could be changed to daisies and sunshine, but literally female genital mutilation covers a wide range of procedures from cutting off the tip of the clitoris to removing the clitoris, labia minora, slicing the labia majora and then sewing the labia majora together and inserting a piece of wood for the passage of urine and menses. So what she's desiring - removing the clit hood and labia minora would certainly fall under the procedure of female genital mutilation. There's no way to pretty it up.

C~

Edited to add: While its illegal to do here, from what I've heard (this used to be a subject that I spent a lot of time involved with in college) there are probably doctors here that would do it for the right price and it would be infinitely safer than a diy job.

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 12/30/2007 3:06:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 23

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:06:06 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout

Labioplasty has become a booming business. If you answer at all, direct them to contact a certified plastic surgeon who specializes in labioplasty. It's really not so different than women who want their breasts enlarged. Sorry to hear that it freaks you out.

Oops... Yes... You're completely right.

I read "clitoral hood" as "clitoris" there for some reason.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to NakedGirlScout)

Post #: 24

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:06:35 PM

tricia

Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

No, i probably wouldn't pose the same questions.

I'm one of those rare people who don't believe in forever yet i still plan on getting a tattoo of my Masters name -- with the notion that i am not going to regret it when our relationship ends.

My questions was not to question her motivation for doing it or considering it (to each their own) -- but simply why she later chose not to do it (if indeed she didn't) and why.

Hmmm, i should have googled it BEFORE posting. I misunderstood. I also missed the clit hood part. i remember going to a strip club once and thinking the girls had the prettiest 'vaginas' i had ever seen. I also remember thinking this isn't a procedure i would mind having some day. I see this as cosmetic surgery. no more, no less.

I'd still question why someone would message a complete stranger with questions about it and thank goodness he realizes its not something that should be done in the basement of his home.

< Message edited by tricia -- 12/30/2007 3:17:32 PM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 25

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:13:25 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Edited to add: While its illegal to do here, from what I've heard (this used to be a subject that I spent a lot of time involved with in college) there are probably doctors here that would do it for the right price and it would be infinitely safer than a diy job.

Read the links you were provided. It's not illegal in the US, and it's performed above-board. Like some other posters, I accidentally pegged this as a clitoridectomy thing, given that there was any question about it (after all, mere labioplasty, even a radical one, is rather simple these days, and done by a licenced plastic chirurgeon), but it wasn't. This is basically not all that different from male circumcision in nature and effects.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 26

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:13:36 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tricia

My questions was not to question her motivation for doing it or considering it (to each their own) -- but simply why she later chose not to do it (if indeed she didn't) and why.

And my obvious judgments were based on the same principles to do with the dynamic and not the surgical intervention.....a camel toe is a camel toe afterall..............

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 12/30/2007 3:15:30 PM >

(in reply to tricia)

Post #: 27

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:14:39 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

FR

there is a body modification specialist out there who i know has done labia removal...but i am not sure of his name...i would suggest starting out with http://www.bmezine.com and from there contacting fakir musafar's school...fakir, himself, i imagine, would be nearly impossible to reach with his fame status, but at the school they might be able to point you towards a reputable surgical body modification specialist who could make the surgical labia and, possibly, clitoral hood removal part of a scene and have the experience be really fucking awesome....

take care,
chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to tricia)

Post #: 28

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:18:17 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

make the surgical labia and, possibly, clitoral hood removal part of a scene and have the experience be really fucking awesome....

is voyeuresse on your profile dearest.......

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 29

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:21:08 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

We don't know whether society or anyone is pressuring her to have it done, so I don't think that line in the sand can be made either. Just like your earlier line in the sand about female genital mutilation being where girls are literally forced to do the procedure and she isn't being forced so it can't possibly be similar isn't accurate.

Less of a line in sand than a generalization but I understand where you are coming from. I ran the risk with making a generalization after all. It's something they do that their society deems all right that ours doesn't. I don't hold with it personally but some people think piercing a baby's ears is mutilation. I do my best not to judge as long as informed consent was there. Sometimes I fail, but I try.

quote:

I'm simply not willing to condemn her, her dominant and compare the whole mess to mutilation off a few sentences probably taken out of context. I really can't judge someone's decision to alter their bodies without talking to them personally.

By stating our opinions in this thread, we are all judging - you're just judging it to be sexy and possibly empowering. And literally the procedure is called female genital mutilation, thats just a literal fact (it used to be known as female circumcision but people felt it underscored the seriousness of the procedure).

For the record, I don't think the act specifically is sexy. I think modification in general, when done by consent, is sexy. Would I find this modification sexy? Fuck if I know, I've never seen it. But I think a woman doing exactly what she wants to do with her body and fuck everybody else is sexy. Which is more likely than she is being pressured to do it by society.

quote:

I guess I the name could be changed to daisies and sunshine, but literally female genital mutilation covers a wide range of procedures from cutting off the tip of the clitoris to removing the clitoris, labia minora, slicing the labia majora and then sewing the labia majora together and inserting a piece of wood for the passage of urine and menses. So what she's desiring - removing the clit hood and labia minora would certainly fall under the procedure of female genital mutilation. There's no way to pretty it up.

If any modification of the body is mutilation, then I just mutilated my breasts to reduce their size and I'm planning on further mutilation to insert jewelry. I've mutilated my ears and may do so again. I may further mutilate my body by removing neck skin if I get jowls as I age. I might even mutilate my body some more by putting some metal through the hood of my clit but I've yet to hear women get up in arms about women doing that because a woman's owner wanted her to.

If that is what we mean by mutilate than sometimes mutilation can be a good thing.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 30

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:21:08 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

make the surgical labia and, possibly, clitoral hood removal part of a scene and have the experience be really fucking awesome....

is voyeuresse on your profile dearest.......

naw...it's the otherside of the equation....exhibitionism.....even if i don't want my labia or clit hood removed...i got a little floaty just thinking about being the female bottom in that scene....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 31

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:22:29 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tricia

I'd still question why someone would message a complete stranger with questions about it and thank goodness he realizes its not something that should be done in the basement of his home.

no in the kitchen more likely.......
I'm shocked I can be so judemental but there's nowt that feels right about his question whomever he is

(in reply to tricia)

Post #: 32

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:26:05 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

make the surgical labia and, possibly, clitoral hood removal part of a scene and have the experience be really fucking awesome....

is voyeuresse on your profile dearest.......

naw...it's the otherside of the equation....exhibitionism.....even if i don't want my labia or clit hood removed...i got a little floaty just thinking about being the female bottom in that scene....

yes I got a little floaty being in the viewing gallery...there's a travelling medical Dom here in the Uk replete with 'nurse'....maybe it's just a question of hookin 'em up.....
sorry about the font it's just the more floaty I get the bigger it gets

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 12/30/2007 3:27:33 PM >

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 33

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:28:34 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tricia

I'd still question why someone would message a complete stranger with questions about it and thank goodness he realizes its not something that should be done in the basement of his home.

That is a good point and I don't have a clue. Maybe something on the profile or something she posted on the message boards made him think she might know. I get questions sometimes because of something I've posted, athough nothing along these lines. Maybe spamming in a desperate hope of information, maybe he thought she knew of a website with kink friendly plastic surgeons, I dunno. Or maybe this is all a moot point and his kink is trying to shock people via e-mail.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to tricia)

Post #: 34

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:30:19 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Edited to add: While its illegal to do here, from what I've heard (this used to be a subject that I spent a lot of time involved with in college) there are probably doctors here that would do it for the right price and it would be infinitely safer than a diy job.

Read the links you were provided. It's not illegal in the US, and it's performed above-board. Like some other posters, I accidentally pegged this as a clitoridectomy thing, given that there was any question about it (after all, mere labioplasty, even a radical one, is rather simple these days, and done by a licenced plastic chirurgeon), but it wasn't. This is basically not all that different from male circumcision in nature and effects.

Health,
al-Aswad.

Labiaplasty is the reduction of the labia. Female genital mutilation involves the removal of the clitoris, labia minora, or labia majora. The OP states, "My slave wants to have her labia and clit hood removed."

Many states in the US have outlawed female genital mutilation and the federal government made it illegal over ten years ago. See:

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/text/104208.txt

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 35

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:31:53 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

If any modification of the body is mutilation, then I just mutilated my breasts to reduce their size and I'm planning on further mutilation to insert jewelry. I've mutilated my ears and may do so again. I may further mutilate my body by removing neck skin if I get jowls as I age. I might even mutilate my body some more by putting some metal through the hood of my clit but I've yet to hear women get up in arms about women doing that because a woman's owner wanted her to.

If that is what we mean by mutilate than sometimes mutilation can be a good thing.

I never said any modification was mutilation, I said that specific act that she wants falls under the category of female genital mutilation. I'm not sure where you got the impression I said that any body modification is mutilation.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 36

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:33:09 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

So they reduce to almost nothing. I doubt a plastic surgeon would think twice about it.

It's just wording and how you are looking at it, like a lot of things in d/s.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 37

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:35:42 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Labiaplasty is the reduction of the labia. Female genital mutilation involves the removal of the clitoris, labia minora, or labia majora. The OP states, "My slave wants to have her labia and clit hood removed."

Many states in the US have outlawed female genital mutilation and the federal government made it illegal over ten years ago. See:

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/text/104208.txt

C~

and i would argue that labiaplasty is possibly what his slave wants, and either He or she just does not know the word for it...it's like going to the hair dresser and saying, i want my hair cut off straight just above the shoulder and maybe some bangs, no layers...and the hair dresser says, "so you want a bob?"

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 12/30/2007 3:36:07 PM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 38

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:37:08 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

If any modification of the body is mutilation, then I just mutilated my breasts to reduce their size and I'm planning on further mutilation to insert jewelry. I've mutilated my ears and may do so again. I may further mutilate my body by removing neck skin if I get jowls as I age. I might even mutilate my body some more by putting some metal through the hood of my clit but I've yet to hear women get up in arms about women doing that because a woman's owner wanted her to.

If that is what we mean by mutilate than sometimes mutilation can be a good thing.

I never said any modification was mutilation, I said that specific act that she wants falls under the category of female genital mutilation. I'm not sure where you got the impression I said that any body modification is mutilation.

C~

My point is that the difference between modification and mutilation is in the eye of the beholder. Your modification is mutilation to someone else. Someone else's modification is your mutilation.

She wants to have her clit hood removed. I call that modification because of the circumstances. She wants to have her labia removed. I call that modification because of the circumstances. I wanted to lose 5 pounds of breast tissue. I call it modification. Someone else who thinks the body is holy and shouldn't be altered calls it mutilation. Now I don't like to think of it as mutilation because, let's face it, it is an ugly word. Because of that, I'm unwilling to apply mutilation to something that something else wants to do to their body. You can call it mutilation by Webster's defination but by Webster's defination many shows of affection here are abuse.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 39

RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:44:17 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty
and i would argue that labiaplasty is possibly what his slave wants, and either He or she just does not know the word for it...it's like going to the hair dresser and saying, i want my hair cut off straight just above the shoulder and maybe some bangs, no layers...and the hair dresser says, "so you want a bob?"

and...

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
My point is that the difference between modification and mutilation is in the eye of the beholder. Your modification is mutilation to someone else. Someone else's modification is your mutilation.

Or maybe they think God has told them to go and get her clitoral hood. We have no idea what their motivations are - all we can do is assume on them.

My simple and sole initial point was that the literal actions they want fall under female genital mutilation. Its not just a definition in Websters, its a medical definition as well as legal. To use your hair example, the difference between labiaplasty and female genital mutilation in the case of the labia minora would be the difference between asking for a bob haircut and getting your hair shaved off. Perhaps not a big difference to you or maybe its a big slippery slope, but for me the literal difference between removing and reducing is pretty clear.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 40

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