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RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:50:18 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

My simple and sole initial point was that the literal actions they want fall under female genital mutilation.  Its not just a definition in Websters, its a medical definition as well as legal.  To use your hair example, the difference between labiaplasty and female genital mutilation in the case of the labia minora would be the difference between asking for a bob haircut and getting your hair shaved off.  Perhaps not a big difference to you or maybe its a big slippery slope, but for me the literal difference between removing and reducing is pretty clear.

C~



To me, using strict definations of any kind gets pretty iffy in the world of d/s and BDSM. Strictly, we live in abusive relationships by the definations given to doctors who treat women and are legally required to report suspicious bruises. This is why many of us are careful about who we see and why so many threads asking about kink-friendly doctors and therapists exist.

Either way, if you want to call something that somebody wants to do to their own body for their own reasons mutilation when they are informed of the risks/rewards and it is performed by a plastic surgeon, fine. But then I don't think you should be surprised when other people can not seperate being hit from being abused.

Edited to add: Not saying you are surprised, just using it as an example

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/30/2007 3:51:10 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:52:51 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Not my thing but I've heard of people doing crazier things. If they don't like their body and want to mutilate it, let them why should I or anyone else care as long as its consensual.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to MsBearlee)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 3:58:52 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		(Using fast reply.)

I think it's probably O/our old friend, the castration guy, with another profile and a new angle.


_____________________________

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to MsBearlee)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 4:07:53 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		I really can't understand anyone having a problem with this if it's truly what the female is desiring, as is the premise of the email received.

I know of more than one female who has had her hood split to increase sexual pleasure.

I have a bar of metal through one of my labia and plan to have at least 5 more throughout my vulva.  I also had one inserted under the skin of my mons for a period.

Give it whatever label you prefer, but if it's consentual it's consentual and therefore no different from any piercing, cutting, branding, suturing, waist-training, or plastic surgery one undergoes to have their body appear or function as they desire.

_____________________________

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I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 4:11:06 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

(Using fast reply.)

I think it's probably O/our old friend, the castration guy, with another profile and a new angle.


I haveen't been around here long enough to know him. Will somebody who does PM me and let me in on the background. It just doesn't feel right.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 4:45:59 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

May i ask, and did you have it done?  And if not, why? 

No, the relationship ended before he decided to do it (it was likely years off still)

quote:

 While i understand that the original message stated she wanted to have it done and represented it as her choice... is it really?

Unless he kept her locked up 24/7, yes.  Since she's posting online, I doubt lack of freedom and money is stopping her.

quote:

  Wouldn't you agree her 'frame of mind' would be different with a Master who desired it?  My point being, if you TRULY wanted to have this procedure done, wouldn't you have done so even if you were no longer with this particular master?

That's the difference between direct pleasure and indirect pleasure.

I really want to get a good grade in a course- that means I sacrifice not going to the party on Friday night.  If I wanted to go to the party, I could go, but I'd have to sacrifice getting a good grade in my course.

It's all about deciding what your priorities are and following through.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to tricia)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 6:00:39 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Some women have big flappy inner labia. It can get very annoyin,g so they go to a surgeon to have them trimmed. It's actually pretty common these days.

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(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 8:47:04 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		*checks your profile to see if you advertise yourself as labia-less or if you are a surgeon*

Removing the clithood and the labia would be very different than removing the clitoris, which is the idea behind female circumcision in Africa.  I've seen chicks in porn who have had their labia removed.  It was an interesting look, but not one I'd want for myself.

As for the 'rabble rousers'...the internet brings out the stranger parts of people.


_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
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(in reply to MsBearlee)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 9:20:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Edited to add: While its illegal to do here, from what I've heard (this used to be a subject that I spent a lot of time involved with in college) there are probably doctors here that would do it for the right price and it would be infinitely safer than a diy job.


Read the links you were provided. It's not illegal in the US, and it's performed above-board. Like some other posters, I accidentally pegged this as a clitoridectomy thing, given that there was any question about it (after all, mere labioplasty, even a radical one, is rather simple these days, and done by a licenced plastic chirurgeon), but it wasn't. This is basically not all that different from male circumcision in nature and effects.

Health,
al-Aswad.



Labiaplasty is the reduction of the labia.  Female genital mutilation involves the removal of the clitoris, labia minora, or labia majora.  The OP states, "My slave wants to have her labia and clit hood removed."

Many states in the US have outlawed female genital mutilation and the federal government made it illegal over ten years ago.  See:

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/text/104208.txt

C~



This is not a clitoradectomy, it is called a clitoradotomy... which is basically very legal, and can be safely done..

quote:

Clitoral hood removal is basically an elective surgery whose purpose is usually to serve for the enhancement of sexual response in the woman. However, this procedure should not be confused with clitoridectomy, infibulations or excisions which are all forms of Female Genital Mutilation. These procedures are usually done on non-consenting women or girls with the intention of minimizing or eliminating their enjoyment of sexual pleasure so that there is less chance of them needing to change sexual partners in search for enhanced sexual pleasure.

http://www.revirgination.net/clitoral-hood-removal.html

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/30/2007 10:30:45 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Yikes, this thread is causing me to cross my legs really tightly....

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 1:53:39 PM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		ok if it's your girl and you respect those parts of her, why are you allowing her to have it done....

i have no advice for you because it's one subject of the lifestyle that i am completely against.

~meticulous~

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 2:31:11 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		This shows as being in response to me so...

If I love her and respect her, why wouldn't her allow to do what she wants to do with her own body as long as she is aware of the risks/rewards, has it done safely and has given it careful consideration? If I had a girl it wouldn't matter a lot to me what modification she did to her body so I wouldn't be controlling it for my own pleasure. I would want her to be happy with her body. If she wants to get a little plastic surgery and has the money for it, I'll hold her hand and support her decision to do what she wants with her body to the end.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to meticulousgirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 3:00:01 PM   
unforegvn


Posts: 159
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline 		Tell them that you are not a consultant for the kinkisters of the world nor are you the yellow pages ~ I agree with the others that say contact a plastic surgeon and get a consult.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to look your best.  Just because you think it is wrong doesn't mean it is :)  it certainly is not mutiliation in my book.

I never get this kind of email - I usually get "aliens" from Roswell inquiring about my whips and chains collection.

(in reply to MsBearlee)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 3:15:18 PM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

This shows as being in response to me so...

If I love her and respect her, why wouldn't her allow to do what she wants to do with her own body as long as she is aware of the risks/rewards, has it done safely and has given it careful consideration? If I had a girl it wouldn't matter a lot to me what modification she did to her body so I wouldn't be controlling it for my own pleasure. I would want her to be happy with her body. If she wants to get a little plastic surgery and has the money for it, I'll hold her hand and support her decision to do what she wants with her body to the end.


i completely understand what your saying here but, here is my theory:  this is a fantasy of Your girl's correct?

yet at the same time aren't somethings just better left as that....a fantasy.  I mean there is really no going back, once those parts are taken away, they are gone, what if one day she gets out of the lifestyle, chooses not to be a part of it anymore and finds someone else, eventually that person will want to know the whys and at that point she may or may not regret doing it....i personally and this is just me wouldn't want to have to explain that. 

It's my only limit in the lifestyle, nothing that would leave permanant modification ie:  branding, tats, other forms of modification and piercing.  (Piercing i may consider but, it's never come up in conversation). 

To each their own, i just wouldn't want to see someone have the fantasy of doing this and hate themselves after for allowing themselves to go through with it all because it was a fantasy that maybe should have been left as that.  No more, no less.

If she chooses to go for it, more power to her but, she just needs to make sure it's what she really wants.

~meticulous~

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 3:24:54 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

This shows as being in response to me so...

If I love her and respect her, why wouldn't her allow to do what she wants to do with her own body as long as she is aware of the risks/rewards, has it done safely and has given it careful consideration? If I had a girl it wouldn't matter a lot to me what modification she did to her body so I wouldn't be controlling it for my own pleasure. I would want her to be happy with her body. If she wants to get a little plastic surgery and has the money for it, I'll hold her hand and support her decision to do what she wants with her body to the end.


i completely understand what your saying here but, here is my theory:  this is a fantasy of Your girl's correct?

yet at the same time aren't somethings just better left as that....a fantasy.  I mean there is really no going back, once those parts are taken away, they are gone, what if one day she gets out of the lifestyle, chooses not to be a part of it anymore and finds someone else, eventually that person will want to know the whys and at that point she may or may not regret doing it....i personally and this is just me wouldn't want to have to explain that. 

It's my only limit in the lifestyle, nothing that would leave permanant modification ie:  branding, tats, other forms of modification and piercing.  (Piercing i may consider but, it's never come up in conversation). 

To each their own, i just wouldn't want to see someone have the fantasy of doing this and hate themselves after for allowing themselves to go through with it all because it was a fantasy that maybe should have been left as that.  No more, no less.

If she chooses to go for it, more power to her but, she just needs to make sure it's what she really wants.

~meticulous~


I agree with you that some things should be left to fantasy. But I don't this as being one of them. This is something that vanilla women are getting done on a regular enough basis because they don't like how it looks. Why would I prevent my girl from doing something to her body that she likes that vanilla women are free to do because she might regret it?

I spent several years considering my breast reduction - not entirely vanity but there was a lot to consider. If my girl lost a lot weight and wanted plastic surgery to remove the excess skin, I wouldn't bat an eye. If a girl under my care spent time considering this, researching it, and was sure that it was what she wanted, why should I give it any more consideration than a vanity surgery of implants or getting a rose tattoo on her butt?

I really understand wanting to prevent your submissive/slave from doing something that you think they will regret but if they have researched it, considered it from all angles, I see no point in denying them something they want just because they belong to a particular lifestyle - unless of course Master/Mistress is denying it because they would hate how it looks. That makes sense to me.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to meticulousgirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 4:12:10 PM   
littleLily


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		[/quote]
http://www.revirgination.net/clitoral-hood-removal.html
[/quote]

The site you provided a link for has an inaccurate statement: "The clitoris is a small, but important part of the female reproductive system."

The clitoris is not small. It averages nine inches in length; the little nub you see above the vaginal area is but its tip. It extends behind that little nub and then splits to encircle the vagina. Its depth and distance from the vaginal walls are what determines how easily a woman can orgasm from vaginal penetration. All female orgasms are clitoral.

I know a woman who had (the tip of her) clitoris, her labia minora, and her labia majora removed as a young girl in Saudi Arabia and could still experience orgasm. Most of a woman's clitoris is buried deep inside her genital area. Let's not tell the Saudi's that, shall we?

I know some here will be incredulous reading this--as I was when I first discovered the extent of the clitoris--but I come from a medical family, and it's true.

Sunny Tawse
Sadien Domina
Archon of Rings
http://AthenorLodge.com


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 4:14:32 PM   
littleLily


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		Oops, sorry... over at my cousin's house using her computer, as mine had a slight hiccup today. Lily's going to have a fit when she sees this! LOL

Sunny

(in reply to littleLily)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 4:19:05 PM   
littleLily


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		It doesnt matter as i'm thinking of taking down my profile anyway i'm too old for this stuff. Nobody would mistake me for you anyways Sunny!

lily

(in reply to littleLily)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 4:35:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Actually the average clitoris is only about 4 inches in length.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to littleLily)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: OML, yet another request for female mutilation. - 12/31/2007 4:44:36 PM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		are we really going to argue what "average" is...holy cow.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 60
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