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RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:42:39 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

.. and the lack of rules and structure is what is killing it now.  When the public can't recognize play from violence... who's to blame?  The ambiguity of it all for fear of being "made wrong" is the real BS.

Oh really... I wasn't aware it is dying.  Seems to me it growing, expanding and evolving at a prodigious rate... exploring new territory, new ideas.

As for who's to blame for what the public thinks you might as well blame all those people who insist on pushing this lifestyle into the public eye, making it increasingly mainstream, part of TV shows and literature to the point I've even seen it mentioned in HS sex education!  Why if only all those "fools" had just kept things behind closed doors nobody would know what we were up to... our secrets safe, our conspiracy still beneath the radar, we could do as we please... in the dark.

And you're a fine one to talk of fear of being made wrong... you who just proclaimed this was all bastardized and stolen and ... wrong.  Tell me, is it difficult talking out both sides of your mouth like that?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:42:57 AM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		Is that really a problem?

Are there cases of coercion and abuse that the BDSM community (whatever that is) turns a blind eye towards because they feel that others might like it?

I mean, I can see that happening and that would be a problem indeed.

I personally have not noticed excessive physical brutality imposed on reluctant subs.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:48:01 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		In many instances I feel that someone clinging so very hard to rules, regulations and the twue way set by others is simply afraid. I follow others rules when visiting them, such as dressing properly for certain dining establishments. Being quiet in a movie theater or during a speech being made.However I will never follow arbitrary rules set by others just so I will fit into a social scene. I have no need for that, as a kid I did but as an adult? No way. I just do not have that insecurity anymore. To me that is a sign of maturity and adulthood, not needing to fall into anothers expectations so that I will be accepted. I am fine being who I am, infact I really like who I am.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:49:31 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Face it.. we have stolen and bastardized this "lifestyle" from the gay male community  .. it was theirs to begin with.
 


The way I live my life has nothing to do with what another group of people did, nor did it "belong" to anyone else.  Before I even knew there was a "lifestyle", I was this way.  I just thought something was wrong with me.  Only when I found like minds was I able to relax a little and start to embrace who and what I am.

I think your premise is wrong.


I think this fits my feelings best.

I have rules and protocol....MINE.

I could give a rat's fat ass about anyone else's take on it. I don't care if the greater percentile of people that call themselves BDSM dress up in lavender tutu's and eat orange sherbet from antique frosted pink glass cups then shout from the rooftops that I don't belong or am not a "real" dominant because I refuse to put a lavender tutu on my ass, and prance around eating orange sherbet from antique frosted pink glass cups.

This is MY life and I will live it as I choose. If what I choose does not fit some testy true domme's uptight vision of what BDSM is "supposed" to be, then big fucking deal. I do not need, or want, to belong to a group that tries to force me into their constrictive narrow minded little box. If I want a box, I will build it myself, to fit me and mine. I don't need to belong to some group of "one true wayers" to validate MY way. It is no better than yours and certainly no worse. It is just mine.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:50:32 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Fuck  'em

Doris Day

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:51:07 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Suck 'em

Rock Hudson

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Traditional vs Contemproary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:52:11 AM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Perhaps we need to revisit the concept.  I think what people mean by a "true"  domination is one with a more traditional approach.  Guys want Betty Page (it doesn't matter if she can do shit or not..she just has to look the part)  and Women seek Conan the Barbarian (intelligence optional) types.
 


I have no idea what twue domination usually looks like, but if you want people who think conan the barbarian is way to go and also want an external set of rules, you can join the Gorean crowd.



(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:52:40 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		You bad, bad man Ron.  LOL... thanks for the laugh.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:52:55 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

Is that really a problem?

Are there cases of coercion and abuse that the BDSM community (whatever that is) turns a blind eye towards because they feel that others might like it?

I mean, I can see that happening and that would be a problem indeed.

I personally have not noticed excessive physical brutality imposed on reluctant subs.


What I meant was.. when a "scene" is discovered between two people.. or someone hears about it and calls the police to investigate.. the "lifestyle" always comes out on the short end of the stick because.. there are no definitions by which proves something is consensual or not other than the word of the "victim" which COULD be coerced.. it's a hard call.  They will always err on the side of worst case scenario.
 
and to Padriag.. please don't bastardize my post. 

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Traditional vs Contemproary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:54:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:

Perhaps we need to revisit the concept.  I think what people mean by a "true"  domination is one with a more traditional approach.  Guys want Betty Page (it doesn't matter if she can do shit or not..she just has to look the part)  and Women seek Conan the Barbarian (intelligence optional) types.


I have no idea what twue domination usually looks like, but if you want people who think conan the barbarian is way to go and also want an external set of rules, you can join the Gorean crowd.





You would be surprised at the number of Goreans who would say that Betty Page wouldn't do a thing for them.

Knute AngurVadel

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:54:30 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

Is that really a problem?

Are there cases of coercion and abuse that the BDSM community (whatever that is) turns a blind eye towards because they feel that others might like it?

I mean, I can see that happening and that would be a problem indeed.

I personally have not noticed excessive physical brutality imposed on reluctant subs.


What I meant was.. when a "scene" is discovered between two people.. or someone hears about it and calls the police to investigate.. the "lifestyle" always comes out on the short end of the stick because.. there are no definitions by which proves something is consensual or not other than the word of the "victim" which COULD be coerced.. it's a hard call.  They will always err on the side of worst case scenario.
 
and to Padriag.. please don't bastardize my post. 

 How then, does living by a set of rules change that? How does it prevent someone from the 'outside' from crying abuse?

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:55:45 AM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline 		Tuck 'em

RuPaul


Hell, I want Bette Davis and Conan The Librarian.

chia* (the pet)

< Message edited by chiaThePet -- 1/2/2008 12:00:26 PM >

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Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:56:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Chuck 'em


Rock' em Sock 'em Robot Master

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to chiaThePet)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 11:58:22 AM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		Now, on the other hand, I -do- believe there are cases of the lifestyle being too open minded and supportive to everybody to the point that they become blinded by some strange need to accept EVERYBODY...including dangerous people.

Believing this, personally, do I think we should have more exclusive rules and protocols?  No.  Being exclusive wouldn't stop these dangerous people from doing what they wanted, and all the rules in the world wouldn't deter them.  They'd still do it...and the rules would turn a lot of good people away from being curious about the lifestyle.  If they see something that doesn't look like they're able to fit into it, or something that more resembles a cult than a way of life...they'd likely be -very- intimidated.

Remember, not everybody finds the lifestyle.  Sometimes the lifestyle finds them.

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 12:01:01 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

You would be surprised at the number of Goreans who would say that Betty Page wouldn't do a thing for them.


She doesn't do much for me either. She looks pretty like a painting to me, but not sexy.

quote:


What I meant was.. when a "scene" is discovered between two people.. or someone hears about it and calls the police to investigate.. the "lifestyle" always comes out on the short end of the stick because.. there are no definitions by which proves something is consensual or not other than the word of the "victim" which COULD be coerced.. it's a hard call. They will always err on the side of worst case scenario.


I'm not sure who came up with the template for signs of abuse in vanilla relationships. Probably some social workers and others in the medical establishment. And maybe some feminist activists. If you want, you can ask such people to construct some way of determining if an SM scene is abusive.

I do not think it is common for vanilla people to out kinksters like this though.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Traditional vs Contemproary Domination - 1/2/2008 12:01:56 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline



[/quote]

You would be surprised at the number of Goreans who would say that Betty Page wouldn't do a thing for them.

Knute AngurVadel
[/quote]

Betty Page is dead.......I am not that kinky

Tal
Irving Klaw

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 12:02:29 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

Is that really a problem?

Are there cases of coercion and abuse that the BDSM community (whatever that is) turns a blind eye towards because they feel that others might like it?

I mean, I can see that happening and that would be a problem indeed.

I personally have not noticed excessive physical brutality imposed on reluctant subs.


What I meant was.. when a "scene" is discovered between two people.. or someone hears about it and calls the police to investigate.. the "lifestyle" always comes out on the short end of the stick because.. there are no definitions by which proves something is consensual or not other than the word of the "victim" which COULD be coerced.. it's a hard call.  They will always err on the side of worst case scenario.
 
and to Padriag.. please don't bastardize my post. 



The only way you would avoid that, would for all relationships to stick to conventional views of what a relationship is - BDSM is not a set of rules it's a simple acronym. I again challenge you to define what the programme is.
Again You aren't talking rules or structure but what everybody else defines and finds conventional.
 
In a sense you are correct - nearly everything comes from somewhere else, how else would life move forward or evolve?  However, If you are afraid of evolution, then do not crawl out of the pool.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 1/2/2008 12:03:46 PM >

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Traditional vs Contemproary Domination - 1/2/2008 12:04:37 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Did she just tip over?  I hadn't heard beyond her going to the hospital over some pneumonia a couple weeks ago.....I had thought it was from performing airstarts at 83 years old in the frigid LA smog............

Sammy the Bull



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 12:11:18 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

This is MY life and I will live it as I choose. If what I choose does not fit some testy true domme's uptight vision of what BDSM is "supposed" to be, then big fucking deal. I do not need, or want, to belong to a group that tries to force me into their constrictive narrow minded little box. If I want a box, I will build it myself, to fit me and mine. I don't need to belong to some group of "one true wayers" to validate MY way. It is no better than yours and certainly no worse. It is just mine.



I am SO glad to hear that.  Because groups that have a structure and represent themselves with dignity are the ones society pays attention to.  They can EXPLAIN themselves.  But then, it's the outer fring tag-alongs that draw the negative attention.  It's SO much easier to point a finger at someone else as the probelm, no?  (remember, when one points a finger, there are 3 pointing back at them)
 
About boxes... ever work in an office that didn't have assigned mail slots?  Either the mail ends up in one big pile waiting for the recipient to find it or someone has to hand deliver it to each and every addressee which is rather a big waste of time and lays the responsibility on one person or department.
 
Everyone lives in a box.  whether it's a defined box or one of ambiguity. 
 
For those that know me, part of my charm is my "certainty"  :)

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Traditional vs Contemporary Domination - 1/2/2008 12:12:03 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

How then, does living by a set of rules change that? How does it prevent someone from the 'outside' from crying abuse?

It won't, the only thing that will eventually "cure" that is familiarity.  History is a clear teacher of that.  Anytime someone or some group started doing things a new way or differently... that is in a way that was unfamiliar... there was resistance, ridicule and the occasional burning at the stake.  People have a natural fear of the unknown, and that's not entirely unhealthy.  That resistance to change is part of what allows societies to hold together and maintain a cultural identity.  But change is inevitable, it happens, and its often at least a little painful... again, its just how it is.

But look around, you see this lifestyle gaining more and more recognition, and with that gradually comes familiarity.  Look at how much more widespread and accepted things are now than they were say 20 years ago... 50 years ago.  Things have gotten better in very tangible ways.  Are there still hurdle to get over, sure.  Give it time and in the meantime be reasonably careful.  I don't see this lifestyle as dying at all, I see it doing just the opposite, growing and thriving on an increasingly expanding scale and with increasing diversity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
and to Padriag.. please don't bastardize my post. 

If you can't take the commentary then you have two choices, lay off elitist and patronize attitudes or stop posting... either is just fine with me.  I can happily engage in a reasonable and open discourse on any of a wide range of topics and very much enjoy such.  I can just as easily handle any vitriol, nonsense, or rubbish you care to dish out.  I would have thought you knew better than to make some of the outlandish statements you did... apparently I over estimated you, my mistake.
 



_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 60
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