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RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:30:06 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		historically incorrect, factually unproven, mind-bogglingly obtuse, and insulting to my friends
 
here in my neck of the woods we call that name calling, but you are right....were all free to voice our opinions.......

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:31:47 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am more concerned about the usage of bogglingly?  cite?

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:32:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Finding a post obtuse is not labeling the person obtuse... and where i come from we know the difference

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:36:03 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Finding a post obtuse is not labeling the person obtuse... and where i come from we know the difference



good for you....hell down here in ga we just got indoor plumbing.....i am sure some day we shall be as enlightened and smart enough to know the difference as they are out where you come from.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:36:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am more concerned about the usage of bogglingly?  cite?

Ron



http://www.allwords.com/word-mind-bogglingly.html
ind-boggling
adj
    1. colloq
      Too difficult, large, strange, etc to imagine or understand; impossible to take in.
Derivative: mind-bogglingly
adverb
      Example: mind-bogglingly large






_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:38:20 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		lol, you are so fucking cute, I can't stand it.

Ron

You gotta have a listen kids, even if you don't wholeheartedly agree.




_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:40:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Finding a post obtuse is not labeling the person obtuse... and where i come from we know the difference



good for you....hell down here in ga we just got indoor plumbing.....i am sure some day we shall be as enlightened and smart enough to know the difference as they are out where you come from.


I have visited your lovely state, I am aware of their use of indoor plumbing...

This is all very silly, I have often told people I found their statements stupid, obtuse, childish, or otherwise lacking... but I did not mean that they were these things because something they stated was. If someone tells me I am ignorant about a topic, it does not follow that I am completely ignorant about everything... there is a difference whether you want to acknowledge it or not


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:40:59 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

julia is capable of a having a civil discussion without calling names.......and i dont think she needs you coming in here going neener neener to someone who disagrees with her opinions.



I was not the one who made the comment about the US being somehow above it all.  Then realized after the fact that the statement was incorrect and obtuse.

In other words, I called your statement incorrect and obtuse and factually incorrect.  I did not call you anything.

I did make the insinuation that you are not one to stand up and go "gee, that was a rather ignorant comment to make."

If it upsets you that I did that, than I take it back.  Pretend I never insinuated that you are unable to correct factually incorrect and obtuse statements that you make.

Sinergy

p.s. the statement that the United States has only been around for 230 years, not thousands, serves only to prove that the US has not done this sort of behavior for thousands of years.  What we lack in time we are making up for in effort.  An example of this would be the fact that the United States dropped more tonnage of bombs and artillery shells on Vietnam than the total tonage of bombs and artillery shells fired in all previous wars combined.



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:42:50 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		3 million Vietnamese died... I would call that smacking of genocide

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:50:24 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		let me try this from a different approach......what do you think we should have done after 9-11?

and what top secret intelligence information would you have based it on?

and no i am not offended at all.........it is quite impossible for either of us to back up our beliefs......so who knows who is factually correct? they are what we believe based on what we know and our life experiences.  i just found it rather childish to write something out requesting me to say my opinions mean absolutely nothing, and are completely wrong.

based on the things i know, the things i stated are how i feel.  i dont ask you to agree with them, but i also dont expect to be told theyre completely ignorant just because they differ from what you believe to be the truth.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 6:57:05 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		raises hand.........

I think we should have based it on the intelligence available and not solicited it fin some form that was not real, I think we should have not killed saddam hussein when we knew what we knew, dusted off his lapels and said you go boy.

Ron
and got the fuck outta dodge
and started looking at faisal

if I may be so bold mistress
your undying and farting worm

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:01:28 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		We should not cherry pick evidence based on a premade decision that we need to invade a country... which they wanted to invade Iraq before 9-11... they just used 9-11 as an excuse and to bully those who dissented

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:16:48 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

let me try this from a different approach......what do you think we should have done after 9-11?



Modifed our approach to dealing with the airlines, frozen Al Qaeda assets, and actually done what the Clinton administration recommended we do.

Clinton recommended that the Bush administration resort to old fashioned police detective work.  Bush preferred the military solution.

But since you asked, I would have also beefed up the infrastructure of the United States, stopped offshoring our jobs, and done what I could to foster research into alternative fuels so the people in the middle east could rot.

quote:



and what top secret intelligence information would you have based it on?



The top secret intelligence information provided to the Bush administration by the Clinton administration, which was
ignored by the Bush administration.

Are you suggesting that you have "top secret intelligence information" and I dont?  I have had a security clearance in the past.  The last thing anybody with such a clearance ever does is advertise what information they may know.

quote:



and no i am not offended at all.........it is quite impossible for either of us to back up our beliefs......



I have backed up my opinions with researched articles and books.

The only person you can speak of it being impossible to back up your beliefs is you.

Point taken.

quote:



so who knows who is factually correct? they are what we believe based on what we know and our life experiences. 



Life experiences.

I thought we were talking about the Bush administration and counter terrorism.

Do you want to talk about Dr. Phil instead?

quote:



i just found it rather childish to write something out requesting me to say my opinions mean absolutely nothing, and are completely wrong.



Scholars publish papers hoping for and expecting review and argumentation.  While it is interesting you consider it childish, an argument over unsubstantiated opinions is something which has as much value to adults as it has to first graders.

quote:



based on the things i know, the things i stated are how i feel. 



There is the problem.  I ask you to provide evidence or source materials to back up what you claim you "know."

The Hale-Bopp comet guy "knew" aliens were coming and instructed his followers to drink Kool-ade laced with cyanide.  I dont recall the aliens ever showing up.

You have the right to your own feelings.  You have the right to your own opinions.  You do not have the right to your own facts. 

Sinergy

edited because I got my wackos with insane personal beliefs unsubstantiated by empirical evidence mixed up.  My bad.


< Message edited by Sinergy -- 1/4/2008 7:30:50 PM >

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:32:23 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		i had a   security clearance from 1981 to 1984-no i am not implying that i have that now.....i am saying neither of us does.

we know what they have told us.  if i cared enough i would find papers and documents to back up my views, but then you would say the sources were not accurate and reliable i suspect.

we read the facts put forth to us by various entities, and we decide what we want to believe.  some swear by the fox news spin on things, some by cnn.  some by the new york times, some by what their commanding officers tell them.

and i personally think dr phil is a communist. or at least a nutcase with a holier than thou complex big time.


< Message edited by SeeksOnlyOne -- 1/4/2008 7:33:45 PM >

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:33:32 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

let me try this from a different approach......what do you think we should have done after 9-11?


LEAN on our "friends" the Saudis until they Extraordinarily Rendered OBL to the FBI for trial.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:35:38 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

i personally think dr phil is a communist.


How did we get from Iraq to Dr. Phil? No, don't tell me.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:44:58 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Sinergy care to cite exactly what it was the Clinton admin thought we needed to do.  Why don't you tell us what the Clinton admintration thought about the Al Shifa plant in Sudan, and why Clinton commited all those acts of war against Saddam?

And are you really sure Clinton was opposed to militarily removing the Taliban from Power in Afghanistan, and instead simply wanted "good old fashioned dectective work", in response to 911?

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 1/4/2008 7:48:01 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:47:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

and what top secret intelligence information would you have based it on?


I would have based it on all the information, not only the information that supported the desire to invade Iraq... and that is really what this is all about. Bush took the patriotism of a bunch of shiny faced kids that trusted their government and desire to defend their country against its 9-11 foes, and invaded Iraq instead of doing what needed to be done to defend us..

Now the intelligence community has come out and state that Bush was only interested in invading Iraq, not objective reality. I watched the UN hearings when Colin Powell became the laughing stock of the world for his presentation about WMD in Iraq.. we had to bribe the "Coalition of the Willing" to join us. If there was serious evidence that Saddam had the wherewithall to attack anyone, much less the USA, we would have had more support than we did... but he didn't have that evidence because it didn't exist...


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:53:07 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

i had a   security clearance from 1981 to 1984-no i am not implying that i have that now.....



So you have no access to top-secret classified information.  That is a red herring and irrelevant.

I have cited sources elsewhere which discussed the approach the Bush administration took to being briefed on the danger from Al Qaeda.

You are entitled to your own opinions.  As my deceased mother in law used to point out "Opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one and they all stink sometimes."  You are welcome to yours.  This does not mean anybody else will believe it.

Feel free to provide some empirical and substantiated evidence if you would enjoy continuing this conversation.

Sinergy



Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Defining Victory in Iraq - 1/4/2008 7:53:18 PM   
desadeoftheeast


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		Get the fucking kafirs out of Iraq. Then there will be peace.

I'm sure Americans would welcome their invaders with flowers and chocolate.

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 120
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