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RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/5/2008 1:34:32 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
But judging by the drama I see in so many relationships (BDSM, vanilla, gay, lesbian, etc), I cannot believe that "stability" is anything approaching a "common denominator".  And I say that with no great joy.


Awww, I wouldn't be that cynical.  In my experience there are lots and lots of relationships that have decent stability.  It's just that they tend to be quieter, less melodramatic, and in general hidden.  I mean, from the outside looking in, there's not much to see or remark on.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Rover)
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RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/5/2008 6:57:07 PM   
dsire2plsemj


Posts: 13
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I appreciate all of your comments. As a new submissive with a Master I am learning what to expect from him.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/5/2008 7:36:19 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
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Status: offline 		An he would be the best place to learn that from... after all, rumor has it most of us are weirdos!

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/5/2008 7:55:55 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		To ensure the health and wellbeing of his slave, both physical and emotional and that her growth as an individual is encouraged and not hindered.

I just make it sound easy. =P

You can apply this concept to anything, from work, to school, to friends, to sessions, to harmful behavior etc.

And no, these things are based upon the nature of your relationship as well as both people within it. And a relationship (I equate being a Master as being in a relationship with a sub or slave) would have likely preexisted a session.


_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/6/2008 5:55:37 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

To ensure the health and wellbeing of his slave, both physical and emotional and that her growth as an individual is encouraged and not hindered.


So to insure her health and wellbeing, should I give up my job so I can follow her around all day making sure nothing happens to her?  Must I lay awake at night to hover over her and make sure she isn't bitten by a snake or rabid bat?  Do I cover her head to toe in three layers of bubblewrap?  Do I become her food taster to make sure she isn't exposed to ecoli?
 
How can you insure anyone's health and wellbeing?
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/6/2008 9:46:51 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

To ensure the health and wellbeing of his slave, both physical and emotional and that her growth as an individual is encouraged and not hindered.


So to insure her health and wellbeing, should I give up my job so I can follow her around all day making sure nothing happens to her?  Must I lay awake at night to hover over her and make sure she isn't bitten by a snake or rabid bat?  Do I cover her head to toe in three layers of bubblewrap?  Do I become her food taster to make sure she isn't exposed to ecoli?
 
How can you insure anyone's health and wellbeing?
 
John

You beat me to it. I am kind of curious as to that answer also.

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/6/2008 1:16:03 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Not going to list out anything here sorry if you are disappointed by that.
But I will make the general statement that what a Master's responsibilities are is going to be directly related to the authority he has been given.
As the authority transfer increases in either time or depth or width, the responsibilities also increase.

ie if you go from weekends only to 24/7 having the authority, then you aslo go from having the responsibility only on weekends to having them 24/7,
if you go from having consultation level authority to having decision making authority then again your responsibility has increased as well.
If you increase the number of areas you have authority over then obviously you increase the areas you also have responsibility for.



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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/6/2008 4:05:05 PM   
Masterdarkone29


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline 		A Master's Responsisbilities to me are this:

Provide for their Mental, Physical, Emotional Health as well as their secruity as well as providing rules and guidlines for them to follow when not in your presence.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/6/2008 8:03:17 PM   
leakylee


Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		i only read the first page. of course KoM and Merc summed up what i would personally hope, want, need on the D/s side of things. but truly each relationship is unique to the individual, and what i expect of my tops are the same basic morals and standards as my dom but.. they only have responsiblities to me in scene and immediately after. anything further is a gift of friendship. it is something of mutual respect that surpasses a Top/bottom relationship.

quantifying relationships in just a manner, is just to difficult a task. it covers to board of a spectrum.

lee

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I am so not right, that I left..

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/7/2008 7:32:08 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I agree that we could construct a list of "common" characteristics or responsibilities.  I would even go so far as to agree that in our fervor to preserve the uniqueness of each relationship, we often deny ourselves the benefit of learning from what we have in common. 
 


Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
 
But judging by the drama I see in so many relationships (BDSM, vanilla, gay, lesbian, etc), I cannot believe that "stability" is anything approaching a "common denominator".  And I say that with no great joy.
 
John


Face value often masks underlying needs.

Using an illustration to which I think we can both relate: many a government has promised to set its people free........considering the quirks and failings of human nature, they can't possibly hope to achieve this and it follows thus they are negotiating something entirely different.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/7/2008 3:10:35 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Face value often masks underlying needs.


True enough.  But I'm not sure how that need could be quantified, or verified, given what is readily observable.  Presuming for a moment that stability is a need, it seems that evolution has not adequately prepared humans to attain that need.  Darwin would not be pleased.

quote:



Using an illustration to which I think we can both relate: many a government has promised to set its people free........considering the quirks and failings of human nature, they can't possibly hope to achieve this and it follows thus they are negotiating something entirely different.


That's assuming that we accept those governments at their word... which I do not. 
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 5:39:45 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

True enough.  But I'm not sure how that need could be quantified, or verified, given what is readily observable.
 


Well, I agree it could only ever be subjective/never be verified, but I think an opinion built on strong foundations can be garnered through listening beyond the words, through body language, through actions etc.
 
For instance, my boss will argue 'til she's blue in the face that she's open to new ideas and utterely democratic; her behaviour indicates something else entirely as she's defensive and uncompromising.
 
In terms of stability, I'd look at the history of human behaviour; we organise ourselves and agree on rules, whether that be family, religion, work or government. I 'd say this is underpinned by the need for us all to know where we stand; in other words, the need for stability.
 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

That's assuming that we accept those governments at their word... which I do not.  
 


Nor do I, which means we agree that people don't always negotiate that which they really want - just as drama does not equate to a disinterest in stability.

Edited for quotes all over the show.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 10/8/2008 5:40:58 AM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 5:47:07 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

For instance, my boss will argue 'til she's blue in the face that she's open to new ideas and utterely democratic; her behaviour indicates something else entirely as she's defensive and uncompromising.

 
That's the "actions speak louder than words" line of thinking, and I tend to agree.  But in the topic at hand, the actions belie stability.  Which seems counterproductive to your assertion.
 
quote:


In terms of stability, I'd look at the history of human behaviour; we organise ourselves and agree on rules, whether that be family, religion, work or government. I 'd say this is underpinned by the need for us all to know where we stand; in other words, the need for stability.

 
But that same history of human behavior is replete with wars, genocide, mass murder, relationships that come and go like the morning paper, bar fights, etc.  Those actions speak loudly to me.

John 

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 6:00:43 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

But in the topic at hand, the actions belie stability. 
 



Can you explain this one in a more detail, John, before I reply.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
 
But that same history of human behavior is replete with wars, genocide, mass murder, relationships that come and go like the morning paper, bar fights, etc.  Those actions speak loudly to me.



You're right of course in the sense that violence, both organised and disorganised, is a fact of life.

But, there is a distinction to be made: we are organised into family, work, religion, government etc in every second of our lives on this planet; by comparison, war, genocide, mass murder etc are abberations. Ultimately, we will kill one another from time to time, and perhaps its sole function is to regulate the species and ensure enough to go around. Yet at our core we seem to yearn for organisation, rules and stability, on the grounds that this is a constant in our behaviour.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 6:39:35 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

But in the topic at hand, the actions belie stability. 
 



Can you explain this one in a more detail, John, before I reply.


Simply that the actions of people (divorce, infidelity, relationships that come and go more regularly than Metamucil, etc.) are not consistent with a need for stability.  If we accept the "actions speak louder than words" theory, which it seems we both do, then those actions are in stark contrast to some unmet need for stability.
 
quote:


You're right of course in the sense that violence, both organised and disorganised, is a fact of life.

But, there is a distinction to be made: we are organised into family, work, religion, government etc in every second of our lives on this planet; by comparison, war, genocide, mass murder etc are abberations. Ultimately, we will kill one another from time to time, and perhaps its sole function is to regulate the species and ensure enough to go around. Yet at our core we seem to yearn for organisation, rules and stability, on the grounds that this is a constant in our behaviour.


I don't think "organization" is the functional equivalent of "stability".  True enough that some level of stability arises from organization, but I think that's a tangental coincidence.  We have not always organized into families in the modern context, and there are those who view the high rates of infidelity and and divorce as evidence that this construct is unnatural.  Work is organized for the purpose of efficiency... not to appeal to man's need for stability (though stable jobs may result).  Religion has been the source of tens of millions of deaths over the centuries, and is the greatest source of instability in the world today. 
 
It may simply be a matter of viewing two sides of the same coin... I don't know. 
 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 10/8/2008 6:40:10 AM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 7:06:33 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Simply that the actions of people (divorce, infidelity, relationships that come and go more regularly than Metamucil, etc.) are not consistent with a need for stability.  If we accept the "actions speak louder than words" theory, which it seems we both do, then those actions are in stark contrast to some unmet need for stability.
 


I don't think actions are in stark contrast to the need for stability, but I think we're discussuing this in more detail further down, so I'll leave it for there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I don't think "organization" is the functional equivalent of "stability".  True enough that some level of stability arises from organization, but I think that's a tangental coincidence.  We have not always organized into families in the modern context, and there are those who view the high rates of infidelity and and divorce as evidence that this construct is unnatural.  Work is organized for the purpose of efficiency... not to appeal to man's need for stability (though stable jobs may result).  Religion has been the source of tens of millions of deaths over the centuries, and is the greatest source of instability in the world today. 
 
It may simply be a matter of viewing two sides of the same coin... I don't know. 
 
John


I'd say organisation, with its inherent rules and regulating behaviour, is geared toward engendering a stable co-existence. Obviously, it's all very subjective, though.

On your work comment, I was talking of the focus that work (macro sense) provides, rather than having a stable job (ie. the principle of work, rather than moving between jobs). 

Religion and government can get out of hand from time to time, but, when they do, the first thing we do is call for a curb on their activities in order to realise......stability....whether economic, political or social. The principles of toleration, limited monarchy and rule of law weren't ideas waiting to be discovered; they were a practical solution to the chaos and disorder of the day and, ultimately, a tool for achieving stability.

In terms of family, well, I think time will tell on that one. I have a feeling that as divorce rates go up and society is increasingly deemed to be broken, there will be a clamour among intellectuals to reaffirm the values of family and marriage. We seem to have a habit of giving ourselves space, over-stepping the mark and then reining ourselves in. I can't believe that any generation of intellectuals will forgo order for anything, and if that means imposing the belief that family breakdown is to be feared, they'll find a way to do it.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 7:25:18 AM   
manxcat


Posts: 673
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline 		Let’s take it out of the M/s arena for a moment.
      In the workplace, responsibility without authority means inability to do the ‘job’ properly/fully. The inverse is that authority must have responsibility, for the job to be done properly as well.  It works this way in virtually all out of home areas, e.g. taking your car to be repaired, volunteerism, as well as in most in home areas. 
      If I leave my children with a babysitter, in authority, it is his responsibility to ensure their safety.  Without requiring that responsibility, I may as well park them in front of a TV and hope for the best.  That does not mean every minute must be micro-managed.  It also implies that the children have their responsibilities, to behave in reasonably expected ways.  These expectations are learned over a period of time, and deviations require attention in some way, be it punishment or re-evaluation of the expectations.
Quote:       “I may get shot down here, but in my view none; the only responsibilities a Master has are the ones they impose upon themselves. It is my responsibility to give myself to someone who won’t hurt me, it’s my responsibility to be open and honest about myself to prevent that harm, it’s my responsibility to be with someone I am compatible with, not his.” (Corrected for punctuation; oh god i am turning into my mother, shudder.)
         Someone also made mention of not being responsible for another’s happiness. 
      While both of these are true, in my family/work it is in part my responsibility to help those within my authority to discover how to find what pleases me, and them, and their own happiness.  Again with children, it is in teaching them to think.  In other familial areas, and this includes the D/s relationship, it is helped by clearly defining the don’ts – hard limits – and allowing for room for error on everything else, when those thoughts/actions don’t agree with something not previously addressed.  I certainly do not want an automaton that runs only on a program.  This allows growth, and quite often a better solution and/or even more pleasure in a given situation than I would have found.


_____________________________

The television, that insidious beast, that Medusa which freezes a
billion people to stone every night, staring fixedly,
that Siren which called and sang and promised so much and gave, after all, so little.
Ray Bradbury


(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 7:57:01 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

On your work comment, I was talking of the focus that work (macro sense) provides, rather than having a stable job (ie. the principle of work, rather than moving between jobs). 


I'm not sure how things work there in England, but here in the US when given the choice between working and not working, folks tend to choose not working.  Not everyone, of course.  But folks work so they can retire and not work.  They go on unemployment so they don't have to work.  They mooch off others so they don't have to work.  In short... they work because they have to in order to live in the manner they desire.  They do not work for the love of work itself.

As further evidence, removing the financial incentive to work should reveal whether folks work for some other reason.  But as was demonstrated in our own Jamestown colony, and in socialist regimes the world over, people do not and will not work for the communal good nor for the love of work itself.

quote:


Religion and government can get out of hand from time to time, but, when they do, the first thing we do is call for a curb on their activities in order to realise......stability....whether economic, political or social.


And how is that working for you with the Islamic extremists in England?

quote:


The principles of toleration, limited monarchy and rule of law weren't ideas waiting to be discovered; they were a practical solution to the chaos and disorder of the day and, ultimately, a tool for achieving stability.


Actually, historically there has been far greater stability under absolute monarchy, dictatorship, etc.  And that has been the manner in which many of those governments "legitimize" themselves today (though one should not confuse "stabililty" with" prosperity).  Even in the western world, when there is instability in financial markets (instability caused by government social engineering policies... but that is another discussion) there is a rush towards more government control in order to give the impression of "stability". 

quote:


In terms of family, well, I think time will tell on that one. I have a feeling that as divorce rates go up and society is increasingly deemed to be broken, there will be a clamour among intellectuals to reaffirm the values of family and marriage. We seem to have a habit of giving ourselves space, over-stepping the mark and then reining ourselves in. I can't believe that any generation of intellectuals will forgo order for anything, and if that means imposing the belief that family breakdown is to be feared, they'll find a way to do it.


There are many degreed sociologists and anthropologists who believe that our current Western familial unit is unnatural.  I'm not educated enough to know who is right, but enough so that I recognize the issue is far from settled.
 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 10/8/2008 7:59:44 AM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 6:02:25 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

To ensure the health and wellbeing of his slave, both physical and emotional and that her growth as an individual is encouraged and not hindered.


So to insure her health and wellbeing, should I give up my job so I can follow her around all day making sure nothing happens to her?  Must I lay awake at night to hover over her and make sure she isn't bitten by a snake or rabid bat?  Do I cover her head to toe in three layers of bubblewrap?  Do I become her food taster to make sure she isn't exposed to ecoli?
 
How can you insure anyone's health and wellbeing?
 
John


Oh please. I said Emotional & physical wellbeing, the physical being applied to during a session as in to hurt but Not damage.

< Message edited by Daes -- 10/8/2008 6:03:23 PM >

_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: What IS the Masters responsibilities - 10/8/2008 6:24:15 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline 		I've always been in relationship with my D/s partners (ie; they've been my girlfriend), and my responsibilities are pretty much similar to any good relationship, I think.
D/s is a method by which we have fun, but also by which we explore one another and explore and/or express ourselves. I see my responsibility as being supportive and encouraging in those endeavors.

That, and to be safe with toys and equipment and stuff.

I've felt more "lovable and capable" (I'm borrowing that phrase, but I forget where from..) as a result of being in relationship with someone, and I hope that I can give that back, too.

(in reply to whippedattitude)
Profile   Post #: 60
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