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Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 5:41:24 PM   
geishagurl


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline 		I think Dominants sometimes do not realize how MUCH power they have over their submissive, emotional wise.  If he is happy, she is happy.  If he’s unhappy, she is unhappy.  If he’s disappointed in her, she’s even more disappointed in herself.  If he withdraws from her for punishment, she withdraws even further.  If his withdrawal from her lasts too long, she can go into depression.  I think sometimes Dominants forget or are unaware just how sensitive submissives are to their Dominant’s satisfaction and/or acceptance of them.

What’s your take on it, anyone?

< Message edited by geishagurl -- 1/3/2008 5:42:22 PM >
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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 5:42:54 PM   
CalifChick


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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I think sometimes people should take more responsibility for their own emotional health. 

Cali


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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 5:44:23 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		That sounds like codependency, in a bad way. You need healthy boundaries, so if his boss is snarling at him you shouldn't have a break down. Sympathize with his stress, certainly. Try to ameliorate other stresses, of course. But be wound up by his mood with no line drawn between him and you, no thanks.

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 5:50:16 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.codependents.org/




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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 5:58:55 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline 		You bring up an interesting concept. 
I don't want to discount Cali's answer because I think she is right.  We adults are all ultimately responsible for ourselves.

The question, however, brought to mind a conversation I had with my pet not an hour ago.

He was a little anxious that he had done something to cause me to be angry with him and he asked me directly if I was indeed angry at something he had unknowingly done or had forgotten to do.
I was caught off guard by the question because I was so wrapped up in my college work that everyone else in the house ceased to exist for the moment (in my mind). 
He thought I was angry because at some point I looked at him, gave a ghost of a smile and went back to whatever held my attention and he says it has been his experience that when I "ignore" him like that, or don't acknowledge his existence, that I am displeased.

So while Cali and DesFIP have some good points, I understand to a point what you are trying to say.

I read your question to say that the emotional distance was being utilized as a punishment for something done wrong or not done at all, which would be different than you being unhappy when he was upset because his boss sniped at him.
And that care needs to be taken with this type of punishment because as a hard whipping will leave physical scars, an emotional withdrawl can leave emotional scars.

Lady Jag

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 6:04:56 PM   
geishagurl


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Status: offline 		PsyVamp,
 
That is exactly what I'm talking about.  Thank you for understanding that.
 
I appreciate the other's comments, but I think you came closer to the understanding of the post.
 
Geisha

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 6:20:08 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		There are many people who do not realize how their actions affect others--dominats included.  When he's sad or angry, I try to sympathize with him and be a sounding board for him because I love him, but my own happiness and fufillment is not all tied up in his.

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 6:26:40 PM   
geishagurl


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline 		Hi JuneCleaver...

I'm talking about his being sad, disappointed, upset or angry with "your" actions... not something he's going through out in the world. When he is upset with you, does it not affect you emotionally?  If he were to withdrawl from you for days because of his disappointment in you, how does that, or would that affect you?

Thanks.. 

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 6:49:26 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

If he withdraws from her for punishment,

In my eyes, that is not how a Dominant man/woman behaves; that is how a weak, spiteful, person acts.

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 6:52:36 PM   
geishagurl


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline 		IrishMist..
 
How do you think a submissive should be punished?  What are your ideas on it?
 
thanks... :)

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 6:55:44 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geishagurl

IrishMist..
 
How do you think a submissive should be punished?  What are your ideas on it?
 
thanks... :)

I don't believe in punishment; I believe in discipline....punishment is one sided; only one person benefits from it...discipline involves everyone.

My ideas on it? Act like mature adults and even discipline would not be needed.

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:02:32 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		Well I agree with the point that doms sometimes forget just how perfectionist and exagerrated s-types can be, and how deeply they seek approval- after all, they are there to perform for the authority of their doms. 

However, what the OP describes goes a bit too far and some perspective taking needs to be taken on all sides.

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:02:49 PM   
geishagurl


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline 		IrishMist,
 
Just pick'n your brain here.  If discipline is needed at any time, unfortunately, what types and how do you feel it should be administered?  Can you give me some examples?

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:02:58 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geishagurl


I'm talking about his being sad, disappointed, upset or angry with "your" actions... not something he's going through out in the world. When he is upset with you, does it not affect you emotionally?  If he were to withdrawl from you for days because of his disappointment in you, how does that, or would that affect you?



Ah, this is a very different post than your first one and therefore garners quite a different answer.

But actually, it depends. Some subs like emotional sadism, having their moods go back and forth in response. They find that dealing with this sort of thing makes them stronger, like humiliation play. For them it's a good thing.

But for a lot of the rest of us, myself included, we've got more than a touch of codependency going on in our makeup. It's what makes us so sensitive to others moods, that fuzzy boundary where healthier people have firmer ones.

And what makes us so good at judging their moods and helping them feel better on bad days is the same thing that makes us so damn sensitive and reactive to their moods. It's the flip side of the coin and you can't have one without the other in my experience.

And for those of us with this, who don't get stronger in response, we need more than most to be extremely careful in picking a dominant because of this.

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:05:10 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

I don't believe in punishment; I believe in discipline....punishment is one sided; only one person benefits from it...discipline involves everyone.

My ideas on it? Act like mature adults and even discipline would not be needed.


You know, I would absolutely adore it if people would act like mature adults, follow through on promises and not "push" like children, that would be utopia.

And I often do "ignore" my pet when he "misbehaves"  What I am really doing when I'm "ignoring" him is that I'm not reacting to whatever it is he has done.  There are times when I have to step back and ask if he's doing (insert whatever) to annoy me or if he is doing (insert whatever) because he enjoys it or doesn't think its a big deal.

I am a person that looks at things from all sides before reacting.  I also try to think ahead on things I'd like to do to imagine possible outcomes.  While this may seem like a good thing, it isn't always the case.  There are times when I forget to have the actual conversation with my pet about whatever I was contemplating because of the way I analyzed the situation and already "talked" to him during the thought process.  This isn't always the case, mind you, but because I talk a lot, about everything, I may not remember that I never mentioned that "one thing" that bugged me.



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Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:09:32 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geishagurl

IrishMist,
 
Just pick'n your brain here.  If discipline is needed at any time, unfortunately, what types and how do you feel it should be administered?  Can you give me some examples?

It does not matter what my examples would be; they would be of little use to almost anyone else. I am a masochist; not only physically, but emotionally and psychologically as well...what works for me does not and most probably would not work for others.

As for the rest; I have never concerned myself with matters that are of no business to me...such as how  an owner should discipline or chastise me...such things are best left to those who should be making such decisions.

Either way, it really does not matter because TWO or more ADULTS should not have to have a 'discipline or punishment' plan in place in a healthy, ongoing  relationship. If a person is unhappy with another; sitting down and discussing such things is much more apt to solve the issues than discipline, punishment, or ignoring the person.



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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:11:41 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I was not berating you for you own methods; if it works for you and yours...go for it...I was asked my thoughts on it, I gave my thoughts on it as it pertains to me. Nothing more, nothing less.

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:12:39 PM   
geishagurl


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well I agree with the point that doms sometimes forget just how perfectionist and exagerrated s-types can be, and how deeply they seek approval- after all, they are there to perform for the authority of their doms. 

However, what the OP describes goes a bit too far and some perspective taking needs to be taken on all sides.


That's my thoughts too, LuckyAlbatross.... we want so badly to please HIM, that I think he sometimes forgets how much his actions causes our reactions. Not in all cases, but some.  I think you also understood what I was trying to get across... thank you. :)

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:16:10 PM   
geishagurl


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline 		Very in interesting, DesFIP,  I have to agree with you fully.  I need to re-read your words again. Good insight.  :)

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RE: Action vs. Reaction - 1/3/2008 7:50:36 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Anyone who ties themselves to controlling the moods of other people is basically fucked.

Subs seem to be very guilty of this. You are supposed to do what they want-not do thier thinking and feeling FOR them. It's not your place.

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