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Punishment - 1/3/2008 6:36:08 PM

Srch4BiSub

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/2/2008
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I am wondering if any Masters can help me with a dilema. I am Master to a collared submissive and we have been together for a long while. She is everything I could ever have asked for. I am currently on TDY with my job and will be out of the Country for several months. Thank God for the internet and cell phones.

This has made our separation that much easier. Recently she did something (I won't go into details here) that totally astounded me and was nothing short of total disobedience and disrespect. After a very long phone call and a reading of the riot act to her, she pled guilty to the crime. Had I been within driving distance she would have been severly punished immediately. However, being out of the Country that is not possible, plus I will not be returning for several months. She fully understands the severity of what she has done and it's possible consequences and agrees that she should be punished.

My dilema is how? Do I wait until I get back - which would be like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted or do I find some other punishment that can be administered now, at a distance. Since I am in daily contact with her, my initial thought would be to deprive her of my contact. But, this in effect punishes me since I very much look forward to speaking to her each day. I have read where a Master enlisted the help of a local Master to administer punishment on his behalf, but I am not sure whether this is a good idea or not.

Has anyone come across this situation, or can anyone offer some pointers in the best way to deal with it.

Vince

Post #: 1

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 6:46:13 PM

SirMIkeSD

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline

My choices would be to tell her that when you get back she is going to have a punishment like she has never had before and remind her of this now and end to keep it in her mind.

or

Come up with some type of punishment that she could do and mail to you, for example take a book that you enjoy and have her hand-write it out for you and send it to you.

As for asking someone else to punish her, that is not something that I would do unless I know the person and it was discussed in advance.

Mike

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 2

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 6:48:26 PM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline

Not knowing what she did IE crime i would not know how to punish .the best punish is ignore time but it also cuts you off too , then again not knowing the offence i would not know the severity of the punishment .

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 3

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 6:51:05 PM

Srch4BiSub

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline

Mike

Thank you for your response. I had the same thought about getting someone else to do administer the punishment for me. The only upside is that she would feel totally embarassed having to present herself to someone else for punishment. Other than that, I am not sure I would want to risk handing her over to someone else.

Your idea of getting her to perform a task is a good one, and at least it would make her think about what she did and understand the severity of it.

Vince

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 4

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 6:57:08 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I would be careful of cutting off contact as a punishment when you're out of country Yes she did wrong and admits it and yes you're unhappy, however I don't think simply ignoreing someone is wise. I know that when I did wrong was when I needed my Doms contact the most, and him with drawing and ignoreing me made my behaviorial issues worse not better, and at one point I became pycsically ill from the stress of the worry he would come back and say we're done. Now you don't have to be as lovey dovey and sweetness and cake like when they're not in trouble, I would of accepted that just as long as he did call, but his complete can't be bothered to talk to you attitude made things worse and alienated me from him.

I think it's important for doms to check in when they're away and will be for a very long time. And I wouldn't recommend turning her punishment to someone else unless you knew them very well. it could end in disaster.

I liked the idea of making her hand copy a big book and mail it to you. all though I really do think the punishment should fit the crime in most cases, so since I don't know what she did I just give you the advice above.

(in reply to azropedntied)

Post #: 5

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 6:57:22 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

punishment via webcam?

she could spank herself...inner thighs perhaps while you watched her face...and she could show you after...
wooden spoons or fly swatters work well...

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 6

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 6:58:17 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Have you tried finding out WHY she did it? I mean, the real, core meaning? Usually, huge transgressions are a sign that something deep is wrong and it's a cry for help.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 7

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:05:22 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Have you tried finding out WHY she did it? I mean, the real, core meaning? Usually, huge transgressions are a sign that something deep is wrong and it's a cry for help.

Master Fire

I'd like to second this, just in case you haven't.

Otherwise, if you are in contact via e-mail and she isn't busy writing other papers (as a student this one wouldn't work out for me well), you could always have her write a paper of reasonable length on a subject. Perhaps the offense itself, why she thinks she did it and what can be done in the future to prevent it from happening, be it something she can do, you can do, or that you can do together. I suggest this because, honestly, physical punishment doesn't do a lot for me. What kills me is knowing that I let him down, knowing that he is upset with me. You couldn't possibly hope to match that pain with a paddle.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 8

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:09:15 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I'd imagine that her acting out like this is a direct reaction to your being out of the country. That although intellectually she knows it isn't true, emotionally she feels abandoned. And if this is so, the worst thing you could do now is cut off contact and truly abandon her.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 9

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:12:57 PM

Cage

Posts: 202
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Srch4BiSub

My dilema is how? Do I wait until I get back - which would be like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted or do I find some other punishment that can be administered now, at a distance. Since I am in daily contact with her, my initial thought would be to deprive her of my contact. But, this in effect punishes me since I very much look forward to speaking to her each day. I have read where a Master enlisted the help of a local Master to administer punishment on his behalf, but I am not sure whether this is a good idea or not.

1. In your position, I would take the "deprivation of contact" option. Not the nicest choice, I know. But punishment is like that. Punishment, in the BDSM context, and by its very nature, is tough on both parties. But what you could do is make it a little tougher on her. I would have her write a 3000 word essay on the the subject of her misdemeanour, and then have her send it too you at the end of the punishment period. (Note: not in installments.... that is, in her mind, communicating with you.)

2. The idea of having someone else do it for you is a very good idea. Unfortunately, you really need to have a very well established, perhaps reciprocal, agreement with another trusted Dom to do this. There are many other spin offs to an arrangement like this, but for now, interpreting between the lines, it is too late.

Cage

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 10

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:15:25 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Thirding!

She's done something totally out of character, totally willingly and had to be lectured into admitting it and the first thing you do is react and punish?

No, find out why it happened- otherwise all you're doing is reacting to the behavior, not fixing it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 11

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:32:18 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMIkeSD

Come up with some type of punishment that she could do and mail to you, for example take a book that you enjoy and have her hand-write it out for you and send it to you.

Evil bastard, aren't you? EVIL!!

(in reply to SirMIkeSD)

Post #: 12

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:32:55 PM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

My experience with this long distance stuff (I've spent years in overseas postings) is that email, IM, and phone are very disjointed communications devices. Many many misunderstandings are caused by not being able to be close, to read each other's body language. I personally (but this may not work for you) take no decisions whatsoever until we're together, and can sit down and work it out. I would also be very careful in reading anyone the riot act remotely, as you are able to dish it out, but you're not there to provide the aftercare .

A "caretaker" dom can be a good idea, but you should have set that up before you left. Should be someone you both know well, mutual respect, friendship, etc., and then the caretaker dom does the investigating, the talking, at your request, then feeds back to you, and the three of you, on a conference call, determine what the right course of action is.

I'll give you an example of something that went wrong. One of my past subs was hiding something from me. I could feel her wriggle, but never could figure out what it was. She was several states away, in college, and she could only make it down a couple of times a month. I ripped her to shreds, in night long telephone calls, reduced her to tears.

It turned out that what she was hiding from me was the fact that she had bulimia. When she eventually blurted it out, I went "so what's the big deal" - my first wife was anorexic, and I know very well how to behave around anorexia and bulimia. Now she really flipped - I had just reduced her big secret, her big bugaboo, to complete irrelevance. And as I was not with her, I could not provide the TLC she very clearly needed, right then and there.

As you know, bulimia is an illness that needs treating by a professional, and I had just made the classic mistake - I'd gotten mad, just like everybody else in her young life who didn't know how to handle that. Yes, it is appropriate to be angry when someone lies to you - but it is extremely counterproductive to be angry at a person who lies as the consequence of an illness.

So be cautious, and, as you are far away, keep it cool. You can get back to intense when you're, well, back.

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 13

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:42:47 PM

SirMIkeSD

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMIkeSD

Come up with some type of punishment that she could do and mail to you, for example take a book that you enjoy and have her hand-write it out for you and send it to you.

Evil bastard, aren't you? EVIL!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Why thank you batshalom, I will take that as a compliment.

Mike

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 14

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 7:46:17 PM

ligar59

Posts: 55
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline

IF you feel it necessary to discipline your submissive, make the punishment fit the crime.The idea is to correct the behavior, not build resentment and anger.
Whatever you decide, I feel it should be done quickly. Your sub does not deserve to have this hanging over her head.
I do not believe it would be a wise decision to allow another Dom to administer any sort of discipline, she is your sub, your responsibility.

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 15

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 8:50:28 PM

Srch4BiSub

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline

I want to thank everyone for their input it has been very helpful. It is probably a good idea to explain what happened. In a nutshell, she got into a conversation online with another submissive who she did not know. At this point I don't even know whether that person was a submissive, a Dom or whatever. Anyway, during this long conversation the other person asked her a lot of questions, where she lived, what she did for a living, questions about me, if i had kids, etc etc etc. Since my sub is an avid communicator and loves to meet people she answered a lot of these questions. At the end of their conversation, she emailed me with a copy of the covnersation since she thought I may be interested in what she had been doing. I was totally shocked. The covnersation was very one way with this other "sub" asking many personal questions and when my sub asked a simple question like this person's real name she avoided answering. My suspicion was quickly aroused and I have to confess that I did get rather annoyed with her. Despite the time, I immediiately phoned her and discussed what she had done. She could easily have compromised her own safety As soon as I pointed out to her the various suspicions I had of the conversation, she got pretty upset and apologetic and instantly realized how stupid she had been. I think she was more upset at the fact that I was angry and upset at what had happened. I asked her if she felt she needed to be punished for her actions, and she agreed.

We have since discussed this on a second occasion and she is very sorry for her actions but feels she needs some form of punishment to remind her of what she did. She has even confessed that just thinking about the incident upsets her and I wonder if maybe this is punishment enough for her.

Having given it some thought and reading some responses, I do think that denying her contact may not be a good idea. Whilst it will punish her it will also deprive me of hearing her voice and talking to her, but I also think that she may feel abandoned.

I also feel that it is something that could have had dire consequences and something she should not forget.

Vince.

(in reply to ligar59)

Post #: 16

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 8:56:49 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

There have been a lot of "To punish or not to punish" threads. Whenever this comes up, the posters with the most real-life experience in building successful relationships -- people like Fire, Michael, LA -- and Aquatic here now -- always say that punishment is a sucky relationship dynamic, figure out what is really wrong and deal with *that*.

I don't have their M/s experience, but I've had successful relationships and I've dealt with more shit than the average person. Bottom line: if you are reacting, you are not in control. Control means you are directing motion toward a successful outcome. Find out what's really going on and make a plan with her to solve whatever the real problem is. Once you have done that, *if it would help her* then punish her as part of a larger plan for the relationship.

To ignore her now would be foolish, bordering on relationship-terminating.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 1/3/2008 8:58:18 PM >

(in reply to ligar59)

Post #: 17

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 9:21:24 PM

girlygurl

Posts: 6973
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Have you tried finding out WHY she did it? I mean, the real, core meaning? Usually, huge transgressions are a sign that something deep is wrong and it's a cry for help.

Master Fire

What a wise woman

Besides, the ignore shit, will eventually piss me off which will lead to more misbehavior... "IF" it were me.

girly

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 18

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 9:21:57 PM

Cage

Posts: 202
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Srch4BiSub

I want to thank everyone for their input it has been very helpful. It is probably a good idea to explain what happened. In a nutshell, she got into a conversation online with another submissive who she did not know. At this point I don't even know whether that person was a submissive, a Dom or whatever. Anyway, during this long conversation the other person asked her a lot of questions, where she lived, what she did for a living, questions about me, if i had kids, etc etc etc. Since my sub is an avid communicator and loves to meet people she answered a lot of these questions. At the end of their conversation, she emailed me with a copy of the covnersation since she thought I may be interested in what she had been doing. I was totally shocked. The covnersation was very one way with this other "sub" asking many personal questions and when my sub asked a simple question like this person's real name she avoided answering. My suspicion was quickly aroused and I have to confess that I did get rather annoyed with her. Despite the time, I immediiately phoned her and discussed what she had done. She could easily have compromised her own safety As soon as I pointed out to her the various suspicions I had of the conversation, she got pretty upset and apologetic and instantly realized how stupid she had been. I think she was more upset at the fact that I was angry and upset at what had happened. I asked her if she felt she needed to be punished for her actions, and she agreed.

We have since discussed this on a second occasion and she is very sorry for her actions but feels she needs some form of punishment to remind her of what she did. She has even confessed that just thinking about the incident upsets her and I wonder if maybe this is punishment enough for her.

Having given it some thought and reading some responses, I do think that denying her contact may not be a good idea. Whilst it will punish her it will also deprive me of hearing her voice and talking to her, but I also think that she may feel abandoned.

I also feel that it is something that could have had dire consequences and something she should not forget.

Vince.

Having read the above, I too would just keep it to the essay. I had assumed something much worse.... But I do think that the essay is a good idea.

Cage

(in reply to Srch4BiSub)

Post #: 19

RE: Punishment - 1/3/2008 9:33:54 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

There have been a lot of "To punish or not to punish" threads. Whenever this comes up, the posters with the most real-life experience in building successful relationships -- people like Fire, Michael, LA -- and Aquatic here now -- always say that punishment is a sucky relationship dynamic, figure out what is really wrong and deal with *that*.

Just as an aside...

I don't recall ever saying that punishment is a sucky relationship dynamic. My own dynamic involves punishment, simply not physical punishment such as paddling often as we don't find it effective for us. I do think that punishing and not figuring out why the submissive in question acted out is a bad idea. Sometimes it's minor, like the submissive not paying attention, sometimes there is something major going on, like the dominant just isn't around the way they used to be or the submissive isn't voicing their needs. If you punish without figuring out what is going on, it isn't going to solve the behavior.

That is a far cry from saying that punishment is a sucky dynamic.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 20

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