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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 10:53:19 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		OWK is as real as its patrons want it to be, and nothing more. It caters to fantasies of many male subs as well as some female dominants. Some of it seems stupid to me, some of it is arousing. It's all up to the individual. Trying to make more out of it than that is a waste of time.

Places like OWK, and the female supremacy theme in general, are neither a solution to the world's sociopolitical problems nor part of the problem. They're just erotic fantasies. While I prefer the (more realistic, IMO) erotica such as that on Akasha's site, it's all erotic fantasy.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 10:54:25 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

How many men who say they are female supremacists are only supportive of that so long as it makes them horny? C'mon -- you know how many guys email me and say "I am a true female supremacist, I believe in female supremacy with all of my heart," and then I tell them, "I'm actually not a female supremacist, so really we don't see eye to eye," and then they write back "Well, I'm not really one either...I thought that's what you wanted, Goddess."

Many, many men confused female supremacy with femininsm and female domination, which are all very different.  I think very few have any deep, passionate, political and social desires to adopt a female run society in a functional sense, they just like the idea in a fantasy sense. I think the further they got into the philosophical ideals of the political and social ramifications, they less time/desire they would have to think about their hot fantasies.

I am not a female supremacist or a feminist.

Akasha


I'm not a female supremacist either, and I find the idea as ridiculous and revolting as white supremacy.  I am sure you get a lot of emails from horny men with foolish ideas in their heads.  In my first post, I said that only a fool would believe that there is anything "real" about a private kink kingdom like the OWK.  Likewise, only a fool would believe that female supremacy is a good or realistic ideal to strive for.  As Mr T. says, "I pity the fools." 

But, I don't really have any desire to change their mind or engage them in deep, philosophical discussions.  They are fools after all, and you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink (pardon the cliche).  I more than happy to leave them happily delirious in their fantasy world, wanking to the sound of their own drummer.  I am sorry that women have to put up with men like that on this and other sites.  But there is not much I can do about what other men do. 

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 11:01:28 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

... essentialist feminism is stuck in a quagmire of trying to change the paradigm by changing the actors, not the problem. The problem I perceive has nothing to do with gender but with the wrong types of people who are attracted to power. The power-seeking and greedy are the ones normally attracted to our economic power bases, and it doesn't matter if they're male or female; the same problems are going to keep happening mainly because THOSE are the types of people who desire power. Idealists rather than ideologists are the ones we should be working for in placing in power, but we don't. Instead, we feed ourselves a belief that a simple solution, like more women in power, will make the difference that an even bigger change requires.
...


BINGO, littlesarbonn! I've never seen it stated better! Gender has been a proxy for power-seekers. Power-hungry women aren't any better than power-hungry men.

(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 11:36:43 AM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

(clipped)

They're just erotic fantasies. While I prefer the (more realistic, IMO) erotica such as that on Akasha's site, it's all erotic fantasy.



I think this is the crux of the argument.  If the idea of a woman who is Dominant in her relationships, politics, work, ... basically her life, is simply food for men's masterbation, then really how seriously is she being taken and how truely effective is she in her dominance?

The very idea that a woman in control is seen as a means to a male end (ie: male sexual excitment and fullfilment) is terribly patronizing and insulting.  From this very notion springs the 'do-me-submissive' and the 'insert Domme here' scenarios - both of which are dehumanizing and designed to rob women of their inate personal power.

If you expand this scenario to encompass an entire resort whose 'schtick' is the"...introduction of an Absolute Matriarchy - the only righteous social order." but whose reality is the subjegation of women to the male sexual fantasy, what you end up with is a large, vocal, presence that validates the use of 'all' women to the male libido.  This is not a case of a woman chosing to be submissive but rather a show of the greater societies determination to keep all women in their historic role - subservient to men.

I agree that this site and the idea of 'female supremecy' as expressed by many is an insult to women and our abilities to make choices independant of men's needs.

Wickad

(in reply to hardbodysub)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 12:02:20 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

I think this is the crux of the argument.  If the idea of a woman who is Dominant in her relationships, politics, work, ... basically her life, is simply food for men's masterbation, then really how seriously is she being taken and how truely effective is she in her dominance?

The very idea that a woman in control is seen as a means to a male end (ie: male sexual excitment and fullfilment) is terribly patronizing and insulting.  From this very notion springs the 'do-me-submissive' and the 'insert Domme here' scenarios - both of which are dehumanizing and designed to rob women of their inate personal power.

If you expand this scenario to encompass an entire resort whose 'schtick' is the"...introduction of an Absolute Matriarchy - the only righteous social order." but whose reality is the subjegation of women to the male sexual fantasy, what you end up with is a large, vocal, presence that validates the use of 'all' women to the male libido.  This is not a case of a woman chosing to be submissive but rather a show of the greater societies determination to keep all women in their historic role - subservient to men.

I agree that this site and the idea of 'female supremecy' as expressed by many is an insult to women and our abilities to make choices independant of men's needs.

Wickad


Again, I just don't buy this argument.  I doubt very seriously that the people behind the OWK are part of a greater plot to keep women in their place.  I certainly don't believe they designed their little theme park to "rob women of their inate personal power."  They do it to make money; plain and simple.  I see no nefarious plot by society at large to create things like this to subjugate women.  Greater society; of which both men and women make up, find most of what all of us here do to be repugnant and immoral.  Most of society doesn't even pay attention to what we do, and I doubt very seriously if most of them have even heard of the OWK. 

I understand that what the OWK puts out is not everyone's cup of tea.  It's not my particular brand of kink either.  I have seen the site, and I find it to be rather silly.  But, I don't see it as a threat to 'twue' dominant women or to men that actually seek those very real relationships.  It is just a silly website, and the "do me subs" were do me types long before the OWK or silly femdom pornography ever came into existence.  Selfishness, lust, and greed are as old as humanity itself.  Honestly if you think it's patronizing and insulting, then you have to say that all erotica and pornography geared towards males is the same.  Everything from the early pin-ups of Bettie Page to cheesy bondage magazines which mostly men purchased, should be subject to the same kind of scrutiny if you truly believe this.  As I said before, no one forces the women in these films and photos to perform and model. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 1/4/2008 12:15:15 PM >

(in reply to Wickad)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 12:22:42 PM   
ShaktiSama


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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
I don't exactly see how they or any other pornographic materials are in opposition to feminism.  That's the tired old argument from the likes of Andrea Dworkin, and frankly it's ridiculous. 


Don't set up straw men.  I could easily explain some of the difficulties I have with pornography in general, but my arguments about its negative effects would not be derived from Andrea Dworkin.  They would be derived from my own experience as an erotic photographer and my own journey through this realm as a woman, an artist and as an object of the male gaze in my society.

In this particular case, the discussion is not about pornography generally.  It is about the cataclysmic irony of a certain type of pornography, which purports to be about the supremacy of women, but exists almost entirely as a fantasy for men--a fantasy which is actually rather insulting and demeaning to women, at the end of the day.

If all white supremacy rhetoric was written and illustrated for the entertainment of submissive black men and women who were heavily into raceplay, you might see a similar effect... 

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 12:40:36 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Selfishness, lust, and greed are as old as humanity itself.  Honestly if you think it's patronizing and insulting, then you have to say that all erotica and pornography geared towards males is the same.


A great deal of it is.  I've investigated the matter rather thoroughly, and I've been reluctantly forced to admit that modern pornography is one of the sites in our culture where men fight a private psycho-sexual war against female freedom and choice.  It's a fall back position for other losses of control and privilege that men have suffered, when they lost colonial possession over the female body in other ways.  Part of a broad essential lashback against social change and any movement toward equal rights. 

quote:

Everything from the early pin-ups of Bettie Page to cheesy bondage magazines which mostly men purchased, should be subject to the same kind of scrutiny if you truly believe this.


I've subjected the art of pin-up photography to more scrutiny than most men who jerk off to those photos would ever dream of.  I could point out a dozen ways in which the male-dominated pornography industry has seized power and exercised brutal and unfair control, not only over the women who modeled for those fantasies, but for women whose pioneering work as photographers helped to establish the style and tone of all modern erotica.

The most famous photos of Bettie Page as a model were always taken by female photographers--and the credit for that artwork, its eroticism and the wonderful dynamic between Bettie and the camera, was stolen by men who were nothing but bean-counters.  Hugh Hefner never took a decent photograph in his goddamn life, nor has he ever had the slightest interest in the pleasure or wellbeing of a single woman.  The photos which established Playboy as a magazine, the playful, sexy joy and light-heartedness of those images, was the work of a WOMAN pin-up photographer named Bunnie Yeager.

Ditto with the bold BDSM photography and film-making published by Irving Klaw, which is the other source of most images of Bettie Page.  The real artist there was Klaw's sister, Paula Kramer, who actually posed the models and did the shooting; it was her vision as an artist that was exploited there, without credit, recognition or reward.

quote:

  As I said before, no one forces the women in these films and photos to perform and model. 


This is also debatable.  Economic conditions in a patriarchal society are such that various sex trades are one of the few ways that a woman without professional training can support herself and her family.  Even in professional situations, sexism and sexual exploitation are often so common that whoring seems like a more honest way to make a buck.  A female friend of mine with a phD was denied by an all-male tenure committee at her university recently, because she refused to have an affair with a male professor in that department.  Does that sound like no force is being exerted to you?

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 12:51:39 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Don't set up straw men.  I could easily explain some of the difficulties I have with pornography in general, but my arguments about its negative effects would not be derived from Andrea Dworkin.  They would be derived from my own experience as an erotic photographer and my own journey through this realm as a woman, an artist and as an object of the male gaze in my society.

In this particular case, the discussion is not about pornography generally.  It is about the cataclysmic irony of a certain type of pornography, which purports to be about the supremacy of women, but exists almost entirely as a fantasy for men--a fantasy which is actually rather insulting and demeaning to women, at the end of the day.

If all white supremacy rhetoric was written and illustrated for the entertainment of submissive black men and women who were heavily into raceplay, you might see a similar effect... 


I see your point to a degree.  However, as disgusting as it would be; there would be the very white supremacist type of porn you spoke of if there was a large market for it.  It would be repugnant, but if someone could make a buck off it-they would.  I wasn't trying to set up a straw man argument; I was simply making a comparison.  I don't really believe that this type of pornography is anymore demeaning to women than any other genre of pornography.  Honestly, how many lesbian couples with enormous breasts seduce and ravish the pizza boy?  The concept is so ridiculous, that it can't even be taken seriously.  The same ridiculousness is applicable to the material put out by the OWK. 

Anyone who takes any kind of smut as realistic depictions of sexual relations between real men and women are just morons.  Unfortunately, those morons do bring their little fantasies to sites like these and try to get real women to act them out.  I understand the frustration from all women on personals sites.  But horny, simple minded men would exist whether this kind of stuff existed or not.   

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 1:21:04 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

Sodsta,

You want an honest opinion?  I think OWK is a pay site / resort designed to bilk middle aged, wealthy businessmen of their money.  Read through some of the judicial systems and taxes/fees they have.  It's fantasy wanker material and very expensive if one wants to participate.  And gee, you gotta' wonder why every picture features hot young women in bondage gear doing kinky play on men two to three times their age.  I don't take this place seriously at all.  It's just a fancy pro-domme site.  If that's what you're looking for, great, but if you want insight into BDSM and power exchange relationships (or even just a kink-friendly place to get away as a couple), I don't think this is the place.

Elan.


To be honest, it scares me a bit, lol. I think it would be interesting to observe the goings-on there, but I have no interest in participating in anything. I agree, it seems a wee bit exploitative, and very much geared towards ridding wealthy submissive males of their money... not my kind of thing, but rather interesting, all the same.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 1:28:19 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I know two women who are Citizens of OWK.  One is an academic and a lifestyle Domme.  The other is a proDomme.  I don't know either of them well, but I have been to the pro's house, and a friend of mine is one of her best friends.

OWK provides women practical training, such as how to use two 5' single tail at one time -- one in each hand.  If you demonstrate higher levels of expertise, you are issued certificates and titles.  It's a little like becoming a "Grand Master" in the Masons.

Some probably recall a thread started here by the "Sublime Empress Omega."  A lot of people gave her grief about her title.  She responded that she did not choose the title; it was given to her.  It's an advanced OWK title.  Citizens are termed "Sublime Lady."

I don't see OWK as any worse than any other fraternal organization of people who share a common interest and hold rituals that seem dopey to outsiders.  In fact, as a place to gain advanced training and expertise, it provides a valuable service.  Don't just focus on the marketing to outsiders.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 3:18:41 PM   
marsneedswomen


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		OWK philosophy is about as relevant as the Playboy philosophy when it comes to changing the world. In other words, it is a marketing tool more interested in making money than anything else. It's heartening to see so many of the posters here acknowledge the obvious because it is important that BDSM is more a lifestyle than a career. Most women in real life are feminist in practice rather than thought or political action. One has to look at women wearing headscarfs/burkas in some countries and realize that it is not a fashion choice but a matter of survival to quickly realize the difference between the two. As for BDSM in the bedroom crowd, that is the status quo and ways have been done for a long time and will continue to do so. Many women throughout time have used their sexual powers to influence and shape history. Occasionally a few would rise to acknowledged power symbol status.

What is amusing as to how many dominant women prefer to be with alpha submissive slaves, which indicates that supremists are in the minority even in BDSM. The OWK is not taking applicants for submissive slaves with no income, they are accepting those with sizable incomes who must be alpha in real life. There are probably more than enough men in Eastern Europe to populate the kingdom a thousand times over, but yet the kingdom from the accounts I have read is vastly underpopulated. It it is no more a woman supremacy than Hedonism in Jamaica is a commune for the playboy philosophy.

A place that turns itself into a real functioning OWK women supremacist realm would be a tyrannical dystopia similar to the ones that exist throughout history and today. Like Disney, it is nice to visit but hell to live there (and having worked at Disney trust me it is) and better left as fiction or a subtle influence on society as a whole.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 3:32:35 PM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

littlesarbon wrote: ... essentialist feminism is stuck in a quagmire of trying to change the paradigm by changing the actors, not the problem. The problem I perceive has nothing to do with gender but with the wrong types of people who are attracted to power. The power-seeking and greedy are the ones normally attracted to our economic power bases, and it doesn't matter if they're male or female; the same problems are going to keep happening mainly because THOSE are the types of people who desire power...
hardbodysub wrote: BINGO, littlesarbonn! I've never seen it stated better!

Oh.  I read it as him basically saying that we have problems because the people who seek power are power-seeking.  Well, duh.  But, even worse, the corollary of this is that there aren't many women in power because women don't want to be in power.

<Edited because I mucked up the formatting and the attribution.  Go, me!>


< Message edited by beeble -- 1/4/2008 3:34:27 PM >

(in reply to hardbodysub)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 3:36:05 PM   
BeeQueen


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline 		to elan
pssst.....there is more then black and white
and seeing how frustrated u sound...u might try a (good) prodomme - u ll bee surprised what kind of nice ppl they can bee

< Message edited by BeeQueen -- 1/4/2008 3:42:26 PM >

_____________________________

All men are animals, just some make better pets. (note the sarcasm) personal free 3d-chat under http://members.chello.at/beequeen/

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 4:20:58 PM   
VeryCurious07


Posts: 45
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Interesting site. They also have some message boards on Yahoo and a couple of other sites. After looking at their main page, I tend to agree with the majority of folks here that this a toothless organization that is not truly designed to lead anyone, least of all the entire world, toward Matriarchy. It is definitely a place of fantasy catering to submissive men and meant to separate said men from as much of their money as is humanly possible. When I first checked them out, after reading the OP in this thread, I was hopeful that it was an organization devoted to Goddess worship (female deity, not women) and that it was an organization devoted to attempting to create a worldwide Matriarchy, but alas, from what I can see, it is nothing more than taking the Domme-sub fantasy to the next level.

By the way, on a semi-related topic, I have a strange question. I believe in Goddess, and I believe that the world, political system and religious organizations should be Matriarchal, but I do not believe that women are superior to men, and more than I believed that men are superior to women when I was a Christian, or thought I was a Christian at any rate. The problem I have with "female supremacy" is the same problem that another member in this thread had with "white supremacy" as well as male supremacy. Anyway, my question is, why is it that a belief in Matriarchy automatically labels me as a "female supremacist"?

I firmly believe that both men and women are equal, though women are inherently superior in some ways and men in others. One of the areas that I believe that women are superior, is that I believe they would make better world and local leaders, as well as Church leaders under a Goddess system, rather than a male God based system. Does this mean that I believe women are better or superior across the board to men? No. However, it seems like most people believe it should mean this.

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 4:35:56 PM   
SolangeRichards


Posts: 170
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline 		Why is the whole thing an issue anyway folks.......it's a PAY SITE......

It's not even like an Indian Reservation in the USA where you can make a plausible case that it is sovereign land.  I can't find anything in the information concerning the Czech Republic that they consider this as anything other than a marketing dream of some fanciful entrepeneurs....

As to who better to lead and build a society around, well, I'm a fan of the feminine, but at the end of the day we are all humans, and regardless of gender, I favor the one who can lead............

(in reply to VeryCurious07)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 4:36:12 PM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Minor point, but, er, why does this soi-disant female supremacist organization call itself a kingdom?  Just wondering.

(in reply to VeryCurious07)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 5:03:19 PM   
oliderid


Posts: 63
Joined: 1/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Places like OWK might not be the answer, but at least they draw somewhat of some attention of a different nature than patriarchy is all that there is. Sometimes major movements require little steps.


I had a subscription to OWK. Good pictures, more or less good video clips...I found what I was looking for But owk is a porn site.

Why did it open in eastern Europe and not in Switzerland? Because Eastern europeans 'actresses' are cheaper (the backbones of the OWK services, not the occasionnal pro-dommes visiting it) .
If it was truly about woman supremacy, why should they spend hours supervising men works and punishing them (in fact rewarding them)?
Don't you think they would prefer doing their things whatever it can be until the job is done? What's the point to be nude and be seen by millions of strangers, if you are truly dominant why should you be part of a porn show? This is fantasy. A male fantasy.

This is the exact opposite of a matriarchy. For what I understand about female supremacy (I'm not) it states basically that the society would better run by women only...They don't want to transform the whole society into somekind of a chaotic orgy.

I really enjoy SM and fantasies but sometimes you have to go back to the real world.


(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 5:05:31 PM   
oliderid


Posts: 63
Joined: 1/1/2008
Status: offline 		-


< Message edited by oliderid -- 1/4/2008 5:08:08 PM >

(in reply to oliderid)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 5:45:18 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
I see your point to a degree.


Yes, I see your points as well, which is why I thought it was worthwhile to clarify my position.  I am not a sex-negative person at all, and ultimately my difficulties with porn as an industry are not about the depiction of sex per se, or the marketing of sex as a product.  They are about power, money, and what I suppose I should call "vocality"--the fact that women in these industries are robbed of a voice.

Men and women around the world should be able to say today that they are fans of Bunnie Yeager and Paula Kramer--these artists should be revered in the same way that the male painters who created pin-ups are revered, like Elvgren and Vargas.  The fact that these women are obscure and unknown is unjust and unfair to both women and men.

Similarly, I do not particularly care if people make "huge-titted lesbians rape the pizza boy" porn.  What I care about is that they make nothing else.  Women have no power to express their own desires in the industry.  They don't write the scripts, they don't get to direct, they aren't behind the camera, they aren't calling the shots.  Women aren't deciding whose orgasm is worth shooting and whose is not worth the time and trouble to achieve, whose body is sexier than whose, whose time is worth more money, etc..  This isn't a business that allows women a voice, and this is pretty much the sum total of what's wrong with pornography in my opinion.

People can say that the only market for pornography is male, which is why the only voices creating it should be male--but this is a worthless line of reasoning, a tautology.  Who knows how much porn women would watch if there was more porn for women?  I can't wait to see Akasha's boy-on-boy movie; even if gay porn isn't particularly my thing, I would go out of my way to see a film I knew she had directed, because I am dying to see the artistic result of a woman controlling that many male bodies at once.

Whether men would enjoy watching erotic scenes that represented a woman's erotic wants and needs remains to be seen, if you ask me.  I will say, however, that I think the capacities of men to be aroused by female-created erotica are VASTLY underestimated.

I have shot a great many erotic photos at this point, of a great many subjects--women's bodies, men's bodies, t-girls, couples, the works.  The one photograph I've ever taken which has gotten the most powerful reaction from all the straight men I've showed it to, regardless of orientation, was actually of a man's body in mid-orgasm.  For whatever reason, a lot of men seem respond to the emotions and the pleasure that the model was experiencing at that moment in a positive way.

*shrug*  Maybe all the "dumb horny guys" wouldn't be so "dumb" if they had more options?   

quote:

However, as disgusting as it would be; there would be the very white supremacist type of porn you spoke of if there was a large market for it. 


Perhaps so.  But the existence of a market for a product is not necessarily an argument in favor of the product's moral right to exist.  There is a large market for child pornography:  child pornography is nonetheless morally reprehensible.  There is a large market for non-consensual slaves, in certain industries.  Nonetheless, non-consensual slavery is morally reprehensible, whether people will pay for it or not.

Similarly, stupidity, crassness or thoughtless desire to objectify women does not necessarily justify the existence of a product which satisfies those urges, from a moral standpoint.  That fact that you can make money doing something is not a moral justification for doing it--it's not a good thing to commit murder just to cash in a life insurance policy. 

Anyhoo.  Many thanks for the stimulating discussion.  I have probably put a few too many strokes into this dead horse.  I am glad to hear from some other posters that there are some women who visit OWK and enjoy the Femme Supreme Disneyland.  I guess it can't be any worse working there than spending all day dressed as Mickey.  It's for the kids, right? 

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Other World Kingdom - Femdom State - 1/4/2008 6:06:06 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
Women have no power to express their own desires in the industry.  They don't write the scripts, they don't get to direct, they aren't behind the camera, they aren't calling the shots.  Women aren't deciding whose orgasm is worth shooting and whose is not worth the time and trouble to achieve, whose body is sexier than whose, whose time is worth more money, etc..  This isn't a business that allows women a voice, and this is pretty much the sum total of what's wrong with pornography in my opinion.

While this statement is largely true about vanilla porn, once you start considering porn based on discipline and role play -- where ejaculation is not the centerpiece -- the situation changes dramatically.

Take spanking.  Eve Howard founded and owns Shadow Lane.  Jennifer Brooks founded and owns HotSpankings.  Clare Fonda and Chelsea Pfeiffer both own multiple web sites and production companies.

Yes, every aspect of the Bettie Page story was a travesty -- including the fact that she is still alive and impoverished.  But don't allow your frustration to blind yourself to the fact that more and more women are leaders in the fetish industry.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
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