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Gift? - 1/4/2008 5:44:29 AM

Twicehappy2x

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This subject came up in a conversation a while ago. Couple that with a wedding I recently attended and I realized that while the subject has been discussed on these boards a thousand plus times I wanted fresh view points.

Here are two dictionaries definitions of the word gift. They pretty much are how I have always defined a gift as well.

Gift :

1) something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without expectation of compensation

Gift :

1) something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present

2) something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned

So when I hear that submission or domination is a gift I just do not get it at all. To me a gift is something freely given without any expectation of payment in return.

When an ad says “buy any two books and get the third as our gift to you” to me that is not really a gift. Why? Because you have to pay for the first two.

Honestly, do any of you offer the “gift” of your submission or domination without expecting that you will be dominated or submitted to in return?

But if you expect to be paid back then how is it a gift?

(A quick pair of notes here)

To those to whom I owe return emails, my company just went home so I will get to them by morning.
And a huge thank you so much for your visits and I already miss you to both Mistoferin and Abraxus.

< Message edited by Twicehappy2x -- 1/4/2008 5:46:47 AM >

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

Post #: 1

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 5:49:10 AM

KatyLied

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From: Pennsylvania
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I don't consider them gifts. I consider them personality traits or part of who a person is. I don't think there is anything gift-like or magical in being who you are. I get turned off when dominants send me messages expressing how much they enjoy the "gift of submission." I've even noted how I feel about the gift in my profile.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 2

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 5:57:06 AM

Rover

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I don't consider Domination or submission to be a gift (in truth, it's an exchange/barter because we all expect something in return). The only saving grace to such an analogy is that it substantiates the consensual nature of both.

John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 3

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 6:00:54 AM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
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From: Stockton, California
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I've learned over the years to avoid (like the plague) dictionary arguments. We're in an eclectic community that uses terminology differently than the status quo, so there are a number of different types of activities that using Webster's is not conducive to harmonious interpretations. What happens is you end up arguing over semantics instead of discussing possibilities of relationships. Quite a few concepts do not "translate" into the status quo, even though used in scene vernacular.

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(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 4

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 6:06:07 AM

scottjk

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Joined: 4/18/2005
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I suppose it could be argued that submission or domination is a gift in terms of behavior, or talent, but as something given or received? Not really.

My guess, as is human nature I suppose, the term 'gift of submission' was either misinterpreted or, in an effort to manipulate others, corrupted into something that can be given or received.

I'm often disappointed of the girls I've spoken to that have taken the view of submission as a gift that can be given. More often than not, they're unwilling to give up on the flawed concept because it was taught to them as a matter of doctrine.

But then, I have a flaw to over-analyze things to death. :) Now that can be either a gift or a curse. :)

_____________________________

Thou art fertile ground and I will plant a garden in thee.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 5

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 6:27:21 AM

LATEXBABY64

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I think the term gift in the lifestyle is more metaphoric then politcally correct
like you are such a gift to me

(in reply to scottjk)

Post #: 6

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 6:40:32 AM

Vanatru

Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
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Of course there is disagreement when people apply fantasy to what they do. When they'd like to fantasize that being submissive is some sort of gift. The dictionary definition is at least pretty consistent. So, instead of being hypocritical and expecting others to nod their heads, instead of twisting words until they mean nothing, how about viewing the whole thing with a good dose of reality for a change? Also, most any "ordinary" person already has a pretty good idea of something being dominant or submissive (or most any term used in bdsm), this isn't a secret society where we need our own "special" language, handshake, or whatever. We aren't a different race, breed, or type of being.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I've learned over the years to avoid (like the plague) dictionary arguments. We're in an eclectic community that uses terminology differently than the status quo, so there are a number of different types of activities that using Webster's is not conducive to harmonious interpretations. What happens is you end up arguing over semantics instead of discussing possibilities of relationships. Quite a few concepts do not "translate" into the status quo, even though used in scene vernacular.

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 7

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 6:41:53 AM

KatyLied

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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

We aren't a different race, breed, or type of being.

Well congratulations. That's going to piss off a slew of people who think we are special.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Vanatru)

Post #: 8

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 6:52:54 AM

catize

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I believe that on rare occasions a gift can be given without expectation of getting anything back, but I don’t believe submission fits that category.

The concept of submission as a gift may have started as a reminder to those who need reminding that it is important to appreciate what your partner brings to the relationship. But that goes for both partners and holds true in any relationship.

A vanilla man and woman meet, date, get to know each other and have sex. They both have healthy libidos and both are satisfied with the physical release. It would be a bit silly for either of them to insist that sex is a gift to the other.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 9

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:01:02 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
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From: Chicago, IL
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my submission to Daddy is viewed as a gift between us. it was freely without any expectations of receiving something back. however i did receive something in return - His love, guidance, and caring dominance - that and more in which i appreciate every single day.

when my SO collars me, i shall offer my gift of submission to him not expecting anything in return yet i know i shall receive in return like i did with Daddy.

it's merely a matter of interpretation and the relationship

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

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(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 10

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:02:14 AM

EvilGenie

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From: Morocco and Maine occasionally
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I see the person, in this case mine who is my husband, as a great gift in a time when I was at one of my lowest points in life. But I see who he is as the reward.

Off to find some alive horses.

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Some things in life are like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 11

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:04:54 AM

Twicehappy2x

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

We aren't a different race, breed, or type of being.

Well congratulations. That's going to piss off a slew of people who think we are special.

Damnit, you mean we are not special?

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 12

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:07:23 AM

Twicehappy2x

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Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

A vanilla man and woman meet, date, get to know each other and have sex. They both have healthy libidos and both are satisfied with the physical release. It would be a bit silly for either of them to insist that sex is a gift to the other.

Lol, not to change the subject but i know a lot of women vanilla and otherwise who use sex as a bartering tool. You know "if you do this for me, then you can get laid".

I personally could not do that, i want it as much as they do.

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 13

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:13:24 AM

Twicehappy2x

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Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

my submission to Daddy is viewed as a gift between us. it was freely without any expectations of receiving something back.

And that is lovely.

Not to argue semantics as some other poster have brought up but i would like to ask this; If he gave nothing in return would you continue to offer him this gift?

I for one would not continue to be submissive to my dominant partner if they suddenly quit being a dominant. I do not mean if they ceased or did not offer BDSM activity but if the dominant half of any M/s or D/s relationship ceased being dominant i would certainly cease being submissive after a while(the exception being short term periods due to any reason such as illness, stress etc).

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:17:37 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
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submission comes naturally. just as being dominate is a natural trait. you are born as such.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 15

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:21:45 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

if Daddy just suddenly stopped being Daddy, i would cease to exist as His daughter. there would be no point in continuing our relationship with Him.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 16

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:23:20 AM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

I personally could not do that, i want it as much as they do.

Grins and nods, me too !!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 17

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:28:42 AM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
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I don't go with the view that submission is a gift because if it is a gift then I wouldn't expect anything in return. As a slave I expect to be cared for, protected, loved etc. It isn't something that I just give away. Our M/s relationship is a mutual one, I serve him in the way he wants and I get my need to serve met amongst many other things. My submission is a need and for me and to fulfill that I need someone with the reciprocal need. To me that isn't a gift.

I think there is a romantic notion that it is a gift and while that is nice it doesn't cover what my being a slave is to me.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 18

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:28:45 AM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x
And a huge thank you so much for your visits and I already miss you to both Mistoferin and Abraxus.

LOL....now I'm "COMPANY"??? Miss you too, it's always just the best at your place and it doesn't get to happen nearly often enough. We really are going to have to do it again much sooner....but I have to have a talk with Scooter about binding your hands so someone else can get a shot at the dishes!

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 1/4/2008 7:29:22 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 19

RE: Gift? - 1/4/2008 7:58:51 AM

scottjk

Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I believe that on rare occasions a gift can be given without expectation of getting anything back, but I don’t believe submission fits that category.

The concept of submission as a gift may have started as a reminder to those who need reminding that it is important to appreciate what your partner brings to the relationship. But that goes for both partners and holds true in any relationship.

If that is true, then the message is frequently lost. More often than not, I see it being discussed as if it's something that is given or received. Sadly, I'm a pessimist in this respect. With so many players out there, it's easy to see it the way that I've described.

_____________________________

Thou art fertile ground and I will plant a garden in thee.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 20

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