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RE: I need Help with a philisophical D/s question... - 1/5/2008 7:38:54 PM   
MadRabbit


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I tend to agree with Rover almost point for point on this one. I don't see the notion of "fairness" as being something fundamental to a dynamic that is based off unequality in authority. Further more, I find the idea that I am somehow required to make amends through some form of punishment or discipline to be a shift in authority.

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RE: I need Help with a philisophical D/s question... - 1/5/2008 7:51:44 PM   
Kaiynasha


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Based on the two rules given to the sub- this rule however should be overall. This is my opinion. Meaning, both shouldn't do anything detrimental to the relationship because if one does automatically it will breach the rule#2 self-esteem. And self-esteem is nothing to play around with. Also I am assuming the rule that is made for the submissive is based on the overall morality of the Dominant.

Rule #1 and #2 includes many things.  So if she cheats she breaks the rule. But if the Dominant cheats its ok? My point is that rule #1 has to be broken down in specifications and exactness. What exactly is detrimental to the relationship? What exactly is breaking ones self-esteem? Then if the sub breaks that specific rule there is consequence.

However, the Dominant needs to have accountability of what is expected of them. So let's say one of the rules for #1 is no cheating. If the Dominant breaks the rule of cheating without dicussion without talking about the subs feelings about it. The Dominant therefore sends a mix message, "Do what I say but not as I do." And that will cause serious problems within the relationship. Serious trust issues.

The consequences for a Dominant breaking a rule could be not having a sub or slave at all. The Dominant may be King or Queen of all, but Dominants are also not God and therefore need to make sure their behavior(s) will not harm their sub or slave. Talking...talking...and talking...should always be the idea.

< Message edited by Kaiynasha -- 1/5/2008 7:53:30 PM >


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RE: I need Help with a philisophical D/s question... - 1/6/2008 9:46:50 AM   
LoveAndDS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vargsten

Dear Reader,

Today I wanted to throw out a question to all you die hard bdsm’rs out there. I was recently discussing rules and punishments with a fellow colleague.  Now the debate was this: If a Dom gives their submissive a set of ground rules she is expected to follow it or reap the consequences right? So what if a Dom breaks one of the rules themselves, what should happen to them?

Here were the rules given.

Rule #1
She is to do nothing detrimental to their relationship.

Rule #2
She is to do nothing that may degrade her self esteem.

Now the idea was he (the Dom) broke Rule #1. How does not matter, the point is he is guilty of breaching the agreement set in the foundation of their D/s relationship.  What if anything should happen to the Dom?

It was my point of view that the Dom and submissive should sit down and discuss the problem, because a serious problem it would be. However I can not come up with a single idea about what should happen to him. Theoretically a Dom would never do such a thing because breaking his own rules shows a sign in lack of discipline, self control, leadership, and his lead through example.  If someone in a bdsm relationship were to do such a thing they could hardly be called a Dominant, am I right? This is still neither here nor there, all I am really interested in, is what should happen to him? Serious answers only please, I think this is a serious question and I’m looking for a good philosophical discussion to help make up my mind. Thank you for reading this and/or responding.

Chris


Hey Chris

I really like number 2 :)  Self esteem is something a lot subs/slaves need help with and it's awesome that someone else realizes that. 

With number 1 - You might want to go into more detail since she could accidently do something that could affect the relationship.  You might want to add in the word "purposfully" so it's more clear.  I know that a lot of subs and slaves will tiptoe with their Dom/Master once they've found Him so that they can stay together, and making things more detailed will help make it a more easy to understand idea.

My opinion on the Dom breaking number 1 as it pertains to an action causing negative feedback in the relationship, is that the Dom wouldn't purposfully do something that would put the relationship in jeopardy unless they didn't care about it to begin with.  Just like a sub/slave is devoted to their Master, a True Master wouldn't be dishonest with his property :)

(in reply to Vargsten)
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RE: I need Help with a philisophical D/s question... - 1/6/2008 11:19:40 AM   
julietsierra


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Philosophically, I rather like the idea that the person in charge has an even bigger obligation to live by the rules that are in place than his or her "subjects." Lots of leaders attempt to live by this rule - or at least they say they do.

However, I'd say more people than not take a more machiavellian view to rules in that what's needed for the submissive isn't such a requirement for the dominant (and no, I'm not talking about permission to buy or to masturbate or other things that are more procedural). I'm talking about the rules that are in place to protect and promote what the dominant has considered the basic tenets of that relationship - specifically what the submissive should be doing to uphold the basic tenets.

So, to answer the philosophical ideas, instead of looking for "justice" in a "turn about is fair play" kind of way, I think what is more necessary - in fact, imperative - is a way of communicating so that each person feels they've been heard, that each can walk away from that moment without walking away from each other and so that each may learn in a way that is constructive, not destructive, how to better build the relationship.

Yes, things happen - both from the submissive side of the fence as well as the dominant side of the fence. What happens though (at least in my experience) is that the trouble starts when there's a general feeling of unfairness that goes farther than dominant/submissive relationships. When a dominant feels that he's forever forgiving and giving second and third and fourth chances, eventually, he's going to run out of opportunities to fix things. When a submissive feels like she's forever having to get over the same relationship errors of a dominant with seemingly no concern on the dominant's part as to how that's affecting her...she's going to simply decide, eventually, to leave.

So, to me, rather than focus on punishment and rather than simply giving lip service to communication (it's a nice word to say but if you don't know how to do it, it's kind of a useless waste of letters), each of the people within the relationship need to learn how to LISTEN and LEARN from each other and from their own mistakes. That way, when the mistakes happen as they inevietably will, there's a process in place to deal with those mistakes that each can rely on.

I know that no one's perfect in my relationship. Both of us have proven that to each other in some rather emphatic ways. What we have done though is to develop a way of talking to each other that ensures that each of us is at the very least hearing what's being said and acknowledging to the other that we've heard. Conversations move from those points and are done in small increments at a time so that each of us can process what the other has said. And we do this until we can come to some sort of resolution that keeps each of us respecting the position of the other as well as the role we each play. Sometimes it's tedius and sometimes it's more than frustrating, but without it in place, I can name a number of occassions where we might not have survived.

And along the way, the value added piece to this has been that we've learned a bit more about each other and about ourselves.

Philosophically, that's a pretty cool thing to have done.

juliet

(in reply to LoveAndDS)
Profile   Post #: 44
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