RE: 90%??? (Full Version)

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dawntreader -> RE: 90%??? (1/7/2008 9:33:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Just because a relationship ends, at some point, doesn't mean that it was a failure.  Every relationship i have had, except for my current relationship, has ended, and i don't see them as failures.  i got something positive from each of them.  Just because a relationship doesn't last 'forever' doesn't mean it wasn't a good relationship or wasn't successful.  
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David


Since we are talking %  in this thread[:D]
i have to agree 100% with joy's statement above~



robertolapiedra -> RE: 90%??? (1/7/2008 10:02:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks

I've read that 90% of Master/ slave relationships fail.
Why do they fail?
For those of you in the 10% that succeed; to what do you attribute your success? [:)]


Hello GostWhoWalks. 90% ? I am very sceptic. When a relationship is based on kink and the rest is
just some sort of ''container'', I think you would have to be very lucky for this to last very long...

But if it based on love, mutual respect and understanding all these type of relationships be they vanilla,
Ds, Ms have a tendency to last longer.

Some people are slaves to impulse and immediate gratification and do not not want to commit to the
long term with it's ups and downs. That includes subs that are in love with "sub frenzy" and doms just looking
for kink for kink's sake.

I know a lot of traditional couples who do Ds. They may or not be much into BDSM type kink, but they last. In
my relationship it is the same except my wife actually loves to be a sexslave. But first and foremost she loves
to please for the pleasure of pleasing. From my point of view, the sex slave is just a bonus.

What is important is natural compatibility first, then you go to kinky heaven. Not the opposite. RL



LadyHugs -> RE: 90%??? (1/7/2008 10:15:35 PM)

Dear GhostWhoWalks, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I would have to say the successful relationships I have had, was due largely by being brutally honest with one another.  Getting all our pet peeves, gripes and things that really plucks on the last nerve out on the table first.
 
Understand we're humans with flaws and imperfections -- no perfections here/exists.
 
Being brutally honest with each other about our 'heart's' desires, passions for whatever interests we have as individuals.
 
Identify our absolute will not tolerate.  Identify the other levels of tolerances.
 
Agree to not scoff at one another's sense of important issues, dreams, goals and or ideas.
 
Agree never to tamper with the area of employment and advancements.
 
Know the person as a friend first and include the 'vanilla' side into the M/s courtship and scene relationship.
 
Agree to part civil and respectful to one another when/if that time comes.  And, come to the aid of another if necessary and or wanted/needed--even if we are apart and pursue a new relationship and or involved in a new one.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



angelslave77 -> RE: 90%??? (1/7/2008 10:20:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Actaully, I think the majority of D/s relationships fail because they don't take the time to figure out if they actually like each other. They base the relationship on the fact that they're both into D/s instead of basing the relationship on each other.


I think Osidegirl hit it on the head here.



amaris -> RE: 90%??? (1/7/2008 10:32:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks

I've read that 90% of Master/ slave relationships fail.
Why do they fail?
For those of you in the 10% that succeed; to what do you attribute your success? [:)]


what do you mean by fail, relationships running their course, or other internal factors, whats the time length for a definition of fail, 2 months, 3 months, a year..

Relationships fail.. full stop.




domtimothy46176 -> RE: 90%??? (1/7/2008 10:41:28 PM)

Relationships change, evolve, grow or wither and, sometimes, end because people are not constants but rather constantly in flux.  The intimate relationships that last a lifetime are anomalous, IMO, and run counter to the natural tendencies of the human animal.

Timothy



julietsierra -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 1:26:08 AM)

I once read an article in which the longevity of relationships was explored. Admittedly, the people interviewed were vanilla. However, to me, the rationale remains the same.

The people had the same problems, crises, etc that other people had had in their lives who weren't as successful in their relationships. They'd had approximately the same doubts, same fears, same troubles. They'd lived through rough times together and good times together and still, 50 years out, were still together while their counterparts weren't. What kept them together was amazingly and ridiculously simple.

They didn't leave.

That's it. That's all any of them could come up with as far as what made them stick it out verses follow the trend to end their relationships. Some of their relationships were matches made in heaven. Some of them, probably closer to hell, but they figured a way through what they were involved with and found a way to survive. Most of the people interviewed had relationships that were thriving.

I really don't think D/s relationships are any different. Most people stay in the relationships they're in because from the beginning of their relationships to the present time, when they've faced the possibility of simply saying "forget it!" and leaving, they've rolled up their sleeves and done what needed to be done (whatever that was) to stay. They're still together because they didn't walk even though other people might have in those situations.

We've been together now for 5+ years. There have been times when it's seemed easier to just throw in the towel. There have been times when I've questioned my beliefs, my choices, my SANITY. And yet... here I am. I'm not going to let little things things get in the way of my relationship with the best man I've ever known.  So, if we have problems, we talk about them. We work through, as best we can, the things that happen to us - and the things we do to each other in our lives. And we try very hard to be patient with each other. And when all that doesn't work, we simply dig in our heels and work harder.

To me, communication, living in a real world, not a fantasy one, time spent together, common vanilla interests, mutual respect, the committment to living life naturally rather than under artificial constructs, the committment to living a life together rather than based on the concensus of our friends as to HOW we should be doing things, and most of all, a committment toward each other, in addition to all the rest are what give us the framework in which to be successful. The committment to not give up on each other or our relationship, no matter what, is what, so far, guarantees our success.

Ultimately, what's worked so far for us is that we choose not to leave.

juliet



PonyGroom -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 2:50:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl
The actual # of lifestylists is very small.  I have also seen a TON of pro's or tribute Dom's.  More than i have ever seen in my life and funny that i have never seen a pro who was male, only female.  Why is that?

Because women rarely pay for sex. Also, women rarely pay for non-sexual dominant services, such as being spanked or tied up. It's a marketing thing.

Collarme is huge. But the number of non-pro, non-swinger, serious-about-the-life people on here is pretty small. 




DesFIP -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 3:54:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl
I have also seen a TON of pro's or tribute Dom's.  More than i have ever seen in my life and funny that i have never seen a pro who was male, only female.  Why is that?


Because you're reading the wrong sites. I've seen plenty of ads of male pro doms. In gay magazines.

Men's drive for sex is stronger than women. Women on average want sex to be part and parcel of a relationship that fulfills other needs as well. Men are more likely to be fine with a sex/play only relationship.

Thus male pro doms cater to the gay community.

M/s relationships fail for the same reason vanilla ones do. Problems with communication, differing expectations, different goals, unstated expectations, and just life stresses.

90% of couples with handicapped ums get divorced also. Life stresses.



Evility -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 4:12:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl
I am not sure if those statistics are correct, but if so, the main reason would be the same that any relationships fail.
 
Lack of communication.


So any couple that communicates will survive... regardless of their incompatabilites.

That's a new one. I'm taking notes.



SailingBum -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 4:17:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: egovillan

I don't think that there's any difference between the success rate of vanilla and alternative relationships, it simply depends on how the two (or more) parties thoughts are on the relationship. Regardless of how kinky the relationship is, if at some they have different ideas about where the relationship should be headed then it's all over. Oh, and I read that 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Just throwing that out there


Agreed.  It's kinda like asking why is the divorce rate 50%. There are a million and one reasons for it.



michelleryder -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 4:52:38 AM)

90% fail? I can't see that being right if thier genuine M/S relationships rather than just one off play sessions.



subtee -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 7:13:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Men's drive for sex is stronger than women.


Hmmmmmm....

~checks herself for a penis~



Mercnbeth -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 7:44:50 AM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
90% failure? The specific percentage isn't critical. Would anyone argue that "success" is in the majority?
 
There are many who aren't prepared to be in a relationship. They don't know themselves well enough. They don't know what they want except that they want to be in a relationship. People need and should be in a relationship. Growing up isn't that what we were told? Being alone is 'not good'. BULL! I believe you may be better suited for a long term relationship if you are first comfortable, content, confident, and HAPPY being alone. Think of it this way; if you're not happy with yourself long term - how can you expect anyone else to enjoy your company long term?
 
Counter intuitive I'd say that a big reason is too much compromise going into a relationship and not enough once considering yourself in one. Add to the equation the frustration of serving multiple 'masters' (Not pointed exclusively to the submissive side of the flogger.) and most relationships are doomed to fail at the start.
 
Laziness comes into play. Many have being in a relationship as a life goal. STAYING in a relationship doesn't get the same priority. I don't think it should be 'work' but it requires ongoing focus and dedication. It's a good reason to have rules, responsibility expectations, and goals documented at the start. 'Communication' is a talking point but what does it mean to apply it as a maintenance tool important to an ongoing healthy relationship? Regular review and re-dedication is important. People evolve and desires expand; the ability to be open about a new fantasy and a partner willing to explore it with you is practical communication.
 
Another big problem is that people forget to focus on fun. Long term financial investment takes precedent over short term fun. Pragmatic gets assigned to housing and  transportation; but just as important is a line item budget for FUN. It doesn't even have to be expensive. Time is a most valuable of assets and it is the ultimate 'hard limit' for us all. When a decision needs to be made involving $$$ versus time with your partner - pick the partner every time and your never regret it. There aren't many long term fond and fun memories in a checking account reconciliation.
 
There is no beacon providing a perfect example. Any such beacon can only be spoken of in the past tense after one or both of the partners die. There are too many absolutes and and 'what if...' situations to speak of any relationship lasting forever. I know I've never had a "successful" relationship. By definition, without death, you can't apply a past tense to success and relationship. I belief I'm in a "successful relationship" now. However, I but would never be so bold, lazy, or complacent to consider this to be forever.  I think the day I do, I risk it ending. I avoid the reference to 'working' on a relationship because the reference implies effort and effort's definition doesn't fit. Does gravity imply effort? I think that force and the trust in the effect is more relative. Similar to gravity, I trust that we both have the same the same goals and are equal in our desire to continue what we share.



thetammyjo -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 7:55:08 AM)

What is the definition of failure?

If it is ever having more than one "relationship" or if it's one a relationships ends then I'd guess the rate was near to 100%.

I mean, I doubt most people have not only only one "sexual/romantic" partner in their life but I also doubt that it is rare for those folks to die at the same time.

So someone gets left behind and the relationship ends (at least on this plane). Is that a failure?

I think that's life.

I've had relationships end and the only way I'd classify them as failures was if I never got anything good or positive from it, not even a lesson learned that helped me in the future. It took years for me to realize that success and failure need not be the only two options. I strive for success and work to avoid failure but that doesn't mean I always succeed or that I fail, merely that I learn and grow.



OmegaG -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 7:58:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
90% failure? The specific percentage isn't critical. Would anyone argue that "success" is in the majority?
 
There are many who aren't prepared to be in a relationship. They don't know themselves well enough. They don't know what they want except that they want to be in a relationship. People need and should be in a relationship. Growing up isn't that what we were told? Being alone is 'not good'. BULL! I believe you may be better suited for a long term relationship if you are first comfortable, content, confident, and HAPPY being alone. Think of it this way; if you're not happy with yourself long term - how can you expect anyone else to enjoy your company long term?
 
Counter intuitive I'd say that a big reason is too much compromise going into a relationship and not enough once considering yourself in one. Add to the equation the frustration of serving multiple 'masters' (Not pointed exclusively to the submissive side of the flogger.) and most relationships are doomed to fail at the start.
 
Laziness comes into play. Many have being in a relationship as a life goal. STAYING in a relationship doesn't get the same priority. I don't think it should be 'work' but it requires ongoing focus and dedication. It's a good reason to have rules, responsibility expectations, and goals documented at the start. 'Communication' is a talking point but what does it mean to apply it as a maintenance tool important to an ongoing healthy relationship? Regular review and re-dedication is important. People evolve and desires expand; the ability to be open about a new fantasy and a partner willing to explore it with you is practical communication.
 
Another big problem is that people forget to focus on fun. Long term financial investment takes precedent over short term fun. Pragmatic gets assigned to housing and  transportation; but just as important is a line item budget for FUN. It doesn't even have to be expensive. Time is a most valuable of assets and it is the ultimate 'hard limit' for us all. When a decision needs to be made involving $$$ versus time with your partner - pick the partner every time and your never regret it. There aren't many long term fond and fun memories in a checking account reconciliation.
 
There is no beacon providing a perfect example. Any such beacon can only be spoken of in the past tense after one or both of the partners die. There are too many absolutes and and 'what if...' situations to speak of any relationship lasting forever. I know I've never had a "successful" relationship. By definition, without death, you can't apply a past tense to success and relationship. I belief I'm in a "successful relationship" now. However, I but would never be so bold, lazy, or complacent to consider this to be forever.  I think the day I do, I risk it ending. I avoid the reference to 'working' on a relationship because the reference implies effort and effort's definition doesn't fit. Does gravity imply effort? I think that force and the trust in the effect is more relative. Similar to gravity, I trust that we both have the same the same goals and are equal in our desire to continue what we share.



I couldn't agree more



JDEmpath -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 8:08:14 AM)

So much has been said on this subject so far!

The most resonant thing about this thread for me is that there have been almost as many (widely varied!) answers as there have been people to give them. Clearly each of us has a quite distinct personal definition of "success" and "failure" in a relationship. If I were to simply add my definitions, I think I would be being untrue, since I am more likely to agree with the previous posters who were not able to see an ended relationship as a "failed" one.

Success and failure are concepts that each of us defines in our own way, and I believe they are personal and ego-driven. This is not to say that the concept is a "bad" one, but it is important to remember the source of your own perception of success or failure, as well as the tendency to define your own quality by said successes or failures. There can only be a certain degree of agreement between two parties as to the amount of "success" or "failure" in a shared endeavor such as we are discussing.

My slave (now former slave) had to recently move away from the area permanently. Circumstances are such that I am unable to move, and in fact I am unwilling to relocate for anyone. We are still in love, and there has been no loss of feeling, but our relationship as we knew it is now over.

I have had just about every emotion to experience (and quite likely will again) and certainly the idea of colossal failure has been one of them. When clarity comes though, I realize that there is no failure, and no success in fact. Our time together has been wonderful, and I would not have changed anything. By any criteria it was a tremendous success while it lasted, and a terrible tragic failure due to it's end, but I simply choose not to see it that way.

A relationship is simply life, walking on your paths in the same direction at the same time. If I were to be attempting to ascribe "success" to the relationship during its time I think I might have missed out on the chance to really just live life during those times. My former slave agrees with this notion as well, and I do not believe that we had ever looked at the relationship as either a success or failure.

I was married a number of years ago. That ended in divorce. She was also my submissive (although not a "slave"). By societal standards that should be considered a complete failure. In contrast to the more recent situation, my marriage ended with some troubles. Nevertheless, I cannot see it as a failure, although I admit to being much less aware at that time and quite likely was attempting to pass judgement on the relationship during its time, as I believe my ex-wife may have been as well. I am not saying that our tendency to define our relationship in terms of success and failure was the cause of its demise, but it is an interesting viewpoint in any case.





MadRabbit -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 10:14:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

It fails because most people are in this for sex and nothing else.  they dont want relationships.  they want quickies.  they want to add a 3rd in the bedroom.

Its become a swingers lifestyle having nothing to do with bdsm.

Want proof?? Read profiles.  You'll see things like "we are a couple looking for a 3rd...absolutely no men no men no men...blah"

The actual # of lifestylists is very small.  I have also seen a TON of pro's or tribute Dom's.  More than i have ever seen in my life and funny that i have never seen a pro who was male, only female.  Why is that?





Aww....finnally....someone I can go to for answers.

Could you clue me in on what exactly the "lifestyle" is?

I have been searching for the answer for sooooooo long.

(I also thought I would mention that from what I know about history, the Leather scene back in the 50's that is the Holy Church of this "lifestyle" involved quite a good bit of anal sex and blowjobs. I've always wondered where exactly this modern "Holier-Than-Sex" attitude derived from, given the origins of this "lifestyle" seemed to have a very different attitude. Maybe one day someone will provide some insights past my own personal speculation. 



SirJohnMandevill -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 6:25:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Actaully, I think the majority of D/s relationships fail because they don't take the time to figure out if they actually like each other. They base the relationship on the fact that they're both into D/s instead of basing the relationship on each other.


Well said! You have to spend time getting to know the man or woman behind the kink, or it won't work.

Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)



wisteriaV -> RE: 90%??? (1/8/2008 7:25:05 PM)

Master and I are real time for over three years. We are successful. For us we not only have to be honest and communicate but we have to LISTEN and HEAR what is being said by  the other person. Its not  all a bed of roses, its hard work, falling on your bum and scraping your knees in the process. Washing stinky socks is not my idea of a fun time nor is having to clean the toilet, or going to medical appointments, but those jobs have to be done.  Also we are looking for a third girl not as a play thing but as someone to complete our family, unlike the assumption faerytatooedgirl previously stated as a general comment.



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