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RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 3:40:16 PM   
ShaktiSama


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*shrug*  I sort of see Elan's point, but on the other hand even a woman who has a small farm or a house in the country might be able to bring in a LOT of fantasy material and kink supplies for $4000.  The assumption seems to be that it costs her nothing financially to keep a man chained and in 24/7 training as per his submissive fantasy for a week; we don't know this, or what resources and equipment might be necessary for "training" purposes.

'Cause you know, that troop of circus clowns that he needs to fulfill his favorite humiliation scenario won't work cheap--! 

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 1/8/2008 3:41:23 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to CdnExplorer)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 3:49:08 PM   
Saltwatergirl


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I appreciate all of the opinions. Thanks...

I guess I could have given more details but I didn't want to drag out my first post. With regrads to the week of training... it was actually I that suggested that the slave come here. I honestly would feel more comfortable doing all of this in the privacy of a place I feel comfortable in. 

Basically to have a person here for an entire week is going to take me away from regular work for that week plus it would take a huge amount of work in advance to prepare for an entire week of training. Just planning his schedule for the week took me three days and that was with the help of a another very experienced Mistress. I emailed back and forth with the slave at least 10 times that day. Now I am not saying that I should be paid for doing this because yes, it is something I truly enjoy but at the same time I need to live. So, to ask for the money that would have been spent on trips to cover my expenses this month would have allowed me to focus all of my energy and attention on planning and enjoying that week. Does that make sense? Also, I kind of feel like this slave has some rather big expectations for training - seriously - training a slave on a 24/7 basis for a week would be a lot of work no matter how you look at it and no matter how much you enjoy being a Mistress. This slave was coming here to be evaluated for a long term slave contract and one of my stipulations is that the slave be financially secure which this slave has known from day one so I felt that all above considered that it would be reasonable to contribute the funds that would have been spent on stupid hotels to the monthly expense of the household for that one month only and see how things go. Again freeing up my time to focus soley on the time spent together. Is that really whorish or unrealistic?

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
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RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 3:54:23 PM   
CdnExplorer


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You know after bringing up clowns I can't get the image of Bart Simpson cowering in the shadow of a clown bed out of my head. lol

It's perfectly reasonable to expect him to cover any expenses related to his visit. If the tribute were a piece of equipment related to his kink or training my gut feeling is that being financially secure he wouldn't object. That makes it more of a personal gift than a transaction. Heck if I were him I'd be excited about bringing a gift like that with me. Sort of like bringing a bottle of wine to a party, except more personal and fun!

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 4:04:24 PM   
CdnExplorer


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Since you suggested he make the trip to your place it could make money a more prickly issue. It's entirely reasonable to expect him to make up for lost income as a result of focusing your attention on him. That really is a cost to you, as much as food or new toys are. The big thing will be the way it is presented. Since he's a prospective long term partner he could be rather sensitive to any kind of hint, real or perceived, that he's buying something from you rather than contributing to the relationship.

(in reply to Saltwatergirl)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 4:16:23 PM   
EvilKitty


Posts: 148
Joined: 7/13/2006
From: Tampa Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


If your so well off miss large estate what is 4 grand to you???  I would be insulted if you suggested that, call you a whore and find someone else.  nuff said

BadOne

Silly man! Owning a large estate in a rural area does not mean being well off; it means one had the drive, luck or family to obtain acreage. In this country, that doesn't mean you make(or have) alot of money, only that you pay a lot of taxes.
Lady Cat

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 4:59:28 PM   
HumiliateherUK


Posts: 12
Joined: 10/30/2007
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Well my opinion is simple if your pro then fair enough.

If your not and looking for a life partner then Dom or sub asking for money is tacky - and .... well I am probably old fashioned but should training him not be a joyus experience for you also, and he is not charging YOU for Your fun is he ? 

Having a lifetime partner is going to "cost" a lot more than a weeks worth of your time in training, if your serious and he has potential its easily a worthwhile investment for the future, if you not dont do it!

(in reply to EvilKitty)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 5:33:45 PM   
HelenaTroy


Posts: 93
Joined: 8/20/2007
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If she's wanting the money in exchange for her effort then I believe that she doesn't feel much of a personal chemistry with this person and has agreed to do this 5 days worth of training as a favor to him. A favor for which she'd like to be compensated because she can already tell that she's not going to get a lot out of it personally.

If she was really excited about the guy and interested in him as her future sub then she wouldn't want his money because she'd be excited about spending the time with him, and training him.

Miss Helena

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 6:20:20 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltwatergirl

I appreciate all of the opinions. Thanks...

I guess I could have given more details but I didn't want to drag out my first post. With regrads to the week of training... it was actually I that suggested that the slave come here. I honestly would feel more comfortable doing all of this in the privacy of a place I feel comfortable in.

Basically to have a person here for an entire week is going to take me away from regular work for that week plus it would take a huge amount of work in advance to prepare for an entire week of training. Just planning his schedule for the week took me three days and that was with the help of a another very experienced Mistress. I emailed back and forth with the slave at least 10 times that day. Now I am not saying that I should be paid for doing this because yes, it is something I truly enjoy but at the same time I need to live. So, to ask for the money that would have been spent on trips to cover my expenses this month would have allowed me to focus all of my energy and attention on planning and enjoying that week. Does that make sense? Also, I kind of feel like this slave has some rather big expectations for training - seriously - training a slave on a 24/7 basis for a week would be a lot of work no matter how you look at it and no matter how much you enjoy being a Mistress. This slave was coming here to be evaluated for a long term slave contract and one of my stipulations is that the slave be financially secure which this slave has known from day one so I felt that all above considered that it would be reasonable to contribute the funds that would have been spent on stupid hotels to the monthly expense of the household for that one month only and see how things go. Again freeing up my time to focus soley on the time spent together. Is that really whorish or unrealistic?



I'm really confused.

Did you or did you not say in the first post that you didn't get anything out of your previous meeting?

Yes -- "I have been corresponding with a potential slave since the summer. He has visited me once and things did not go that well. Now after months and months this slave wants to try again to see if things could potentially work out. The tentitive plan for the visit is five days of 24/7 training. I live in a rural private area and own a large estate." is what you said.

So my original point stands with greater confusion.

If the first scene didn't go well what sense does it make for this second meeting let alone the idea that you might get a long term contract.

Scening with someone, training someone you don't have chemistry with is a sure way to build up resentment toward him at best and at worst turn you off to scening for some time.

Why do this at all?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Saltwatergirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 6:45:56 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
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quote:

ShaktiSama:
*shrug*  I sort of see Elan's point, but on the other hand even a woman who has a small farm or a house in the country might be able to bring in a LOT of fantasy material and kink supplies for $4000.  The assumption seems to be that it costs her nothing financially to keep a man chained and in 24/7 training as per his submissive fantasy for a week; we don't know this, or what resources and equipment might be necessary for "training" purposes.  'Cause you know, that troop of circus clowns that he needs to fulfill his favorite humiliation scenario won't work cheap!

CdnExplorer:
It's entirely reasonable to expect him to make up for lost income as a result of focusing your attention on him.  That really is a cost to you, as much as food or new toys are.  The big thing will be the way it is presented.  Since he's a prospective long term partner he could be rather sensitive to any kind of hint, real or perceived, that he's buying something from you rather than contributing to the relationship.


I'll have to respectfully disagree with both of these posts.  The "assumption" here seems to be that the domme's time and money have value while the submissive's do not.  Likewise, there is an implied notion that because the submissive may get something personally rewarding from the meeting, he should pay for this.  Perhaps I'm an oddball, but I conduct relationships so that my partner and I both are both personally rewarded.  Really, I've never seen any successful relationship where this isn't the case.  True enough, both partners have expenses in conducting a relationship, which, in turn, is part of what each contributes to the relationship.  Of course, as means and schedule allow, sometimes one partner contributes more than the other, but the basis isn't one partner compensating the other.

Side note to CdnExplorer:  I found your previous post advising caution about the expectations money can create and giving safety tips for having someone in your home very sensible.  It's just here that we don't quite see eye-to-eye.

Elan.

(in reply to CdnExplorer)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 6:53:22 PM   
CdnExplorer


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*nods to Elan*

I don't really view it as the dominants time being more valuable, but most people can't afford to just take a week off work either. Given that his intention is to become part of the household (and only because of that) I thought it reasonable to help bear the costs of his rather intensive needs as a submissive. I mean, 24x7 attention is asking a lot. Even a normal 24x7 TPE doesn't involve the level of intensity indicated. In any other situation I would agree with you that money should be out of the question.

Of course that leads to another line of thought. If he really wants to be part of the household wouldn't it make sense for his time here to reflect what his reality will be, rather than putting so much attention on him right now? That could lead to some disappointment later when reality sticks its head into the situation.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 7:06:33 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
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FR
I can't imagine a potential submissive paying me for a training course that I would love to do regardless. I agree with Helen, if you were really interested in having a long-term contractual relationship with this slave, then money would not be an issue. The reward of finding the right slave and training him the way you want him trained should be enough. If you want money, you should have asked up front for it. If I were him, I would feel manipulated and left with no options BUT to go to your house, since this is what you are insisting. But not only are you insisting that he come to your house, you now want the money he would of spent on the hotel..ect..If you can't afford a week off to do the 24/7 training, then why do it at all? You are obviously not going to keep him. Why train him your way, just for another to have to retrain him their way? If the answers make no sense, it is because this whole thing makes no sense. The only way it does make sense, is if you were doing it for the money IMO. 

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RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 7:17:59 PM   
Saltwatergirl


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OK I have another question. What do you look for in a slave? or maybe better yet - what is your idea of the perfect slave?

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 7:38:53 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltwatergirl
or maybe better yet - what is your idea of the perfect slave?


This

Sorry. Couldn't resist ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 1/8/2008 7:57:22 PM >

(in reply to Saltwatergirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 8:35:56 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued
I'll have to respectfully disagree with both of these posts.  The "assumption" here seems to be that the domme's time and money have value while the submissive's do not.  Likewise, there is an implied notion that because the submissive may get something personally rewarding from the meeting, he should pay for this.


Now you've got it! Welcome to the world of FemDom/malesub. We hope you enjoy your stay. We accept cash, Mastercard, Visa, and gold teeth. No personal checks, please.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 10:08:15 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
Saltwatergirl,

quote:

With regards to the week of training... it was actually I that suggested that the slave come here.  I honestly would feel more comfortable doing all of this in the privacy of a place I feel comfortable in.


This makes perfect sense to me and it is the reason I've met people at my home (or theirs).

quote:

Basically to have a person here for an entire week is going to take me away from regular work for that week plus it would take a huge amount of work in advance to prepare for an entire week of training.  Just planning his schedule for the week took me three days and that was with the help of a another very experienced Mistress.  I emailed back and forth with the slave at least 10 times that day.


What in the heck are you planning?  I used to live with a slave (yes, my slave) and it never took me this degree of planning.  Are you two actually going to talk to one another or is this week all about play?  If all you do is play, it's unlikely you'll be able to gage any other kind of compatibility (which ostensibly is part of what the trip is about is it not)?  This is beginning to sound more and more like a week-long professional domination session rather than two people meeting to enjoy each other's company.  No wonder you want to be paid!

quote:

Now I am not saying that I should be paid for doing this because yes, it is something I truly enjoy but at the same time I need to live.  So, to ask for the money that would have been spent on trips to cover my expenses this month would have allowed me to focus all of my energy and attention on planning and enjoying that week. Does that make sense?  Also, I kind of feel like this slave has some rather big expectations for training - seriously - training a slave on a 24/7 basis for a week would be a lot of work no matter how you look at it and no matter how much you enjoy being a Mistress.


I've trained a 24/7 slave 365 days of the year and this didn't stop me from working and leading my life.  In fact, part of the training involved teaching the slave to do things that made our working and home life easier so as to give us more time together.  Something seems seriously out of balance with this visit.  Are you just catering to every fantasy the slave has?  Do you truly expect to keep him pseudo-chained (or literally chained) in the basement for the entire visit?  Wouldn't going to a movie or out to dinner (vanilla style) allow you to get to know each other a bit?

Why is it you need to take the entire week off anyway?  Certainly, if this man is so much work that you're incapable of holding down a job, I'd say he's not a great candidate for a life partner.  Under these circumstances, the slave would need to become your sugar daddy.  Perhaps this is why you've stipulated (both here and in your profile) that you're looking for someone well established financially.

Once again, the sense I get is that this visit isn't about getting to know one another.  If you're both itching to get your groove on for a week of non-stop BDSM play, hey, that's fine, but call it what it is then.  Deluding yourself that it is something different is likely to cause problems.  Indeed, once you two both agree on this, working out the financial arrangements will be much easier.  Under the circumstances you've described, it actually makes sense that the slave would pay your wages for the week.  I mean, geesh, it sounds like this slave is about to become your full-time job.  This is where loose definitions in BDSM cause confusion.  To me, what you've described isn't a slave or a submissive, but he may be either (or both) of these things to you.  In my own terminology, what you have is a "do me" boy and yes, were I you, I'd want to be paid for the "doing".

Here's a novel idea.  For the purpose of this next exercise, I'll assume you're both genuinely interested in one another as long-term, romantic relationship partners.  So... how about having the slave share in the planning of your mutual visit?  Tell the slave what you like to eat, what restaurants and theaters you like to frequent, and what things you like to do.  Ask your slave what he likes and discuss things you'd like to do together.  Once you've shared these things, instruct the slave to make an itinerary to entertain you both.  The slave can figure out what's on at the local theater that may be of interest to you, he can make dinner reservations, he can... drum roll please... cook, clean up, and wash dishes, prepare your bath, and get things ready for you to go to work the next day.  Now the visit can happen without reams of toil on your part and without you needing to take a week off work.

If you really want to see how the two of you get along, do some actual living while enjoying each other's company.  During courting, it's kind of essential that you do quite a few vanilla things together.  This is how you unwrap the greater quality of a kinkster and determine broader compatibility.  And hey, if you want to get kinky, you don't need elaborate methods to get someone's attention.  Often simple and effective means get the job done equally well.  For example, grab a hair band and wrap it tightly around your slave's balls and the base of his cock.  Now sit and play cards.  I guarantee you'll have the boy squirming in his seat.  His mind and the sensations will do all the torture work for you.  When you've had enough fun watching this predicament and the boy's delicious expressions, slap his face, throw him down, and fuck him however you'd like (or have him pamper you in whatever way you'd like).  Voila!  Plenty of fun with no special equipment or laborious planning required.  (Safety note:  if you're binding the cock and balls in any way, it's a good idea to check periodically that enough circulation remains.  Or, from time-to-time, you can have the slave report on his condition.)

Regarding emailing your slave ten times a day, put a stop to this.  Delegate tasks to the slave and leave him to do them.  If I can be so bold as to make this comment, part of being an effective dominant is making the best use of the resources you have.  Your slave is a resource.  Besides using your slave as a play toy, for God's sake make use of him functionally too.  Have him help plan, prepare, and manage the visit.  You'll enjoy your time together much more if you're both involved in planning and making it happen.

quote:

This slave was coming here to be evaluated for a long term slave contract and one of my stipulations is that the slave be financially secure which this slave has known from day one so I felt that all above considered that it would be reasonable to contribute the funds that would have been spent on stupid hotels to the monthly expense of the household for that one month only and see how things go.  Again freeing up my time to focus solely on the time spent together.  Is that really whorish or unrealistic?


You may both want to enjoy each other in whorish ways and this is fine.  Enjoy each other.  However, it sounds like the two of you are not working together to make this visit mutually enjoyable and realistic.  Yes, your slave can buy you the week off, but do you really want to spend an entire week placating someone?  For the first day or two this might be fun, but it gets tedious very quickly after that.  I'm still unsure whether the two of you have the same goals and expectations.  If what you're both after is to determine long-term relationship compatibility, it doesn't sound like you're setting the stage very well for this.  Ironically, if all you both want is a week of carefree, kinky play, I don't think you're setting the stage particularly well for this either.  At this point, I'd recommend the two of you chat about what it is that you're doing.  Drop the kinky talk and just communicate as two human beings.  Truly, I think you'll get much farther discussing this outside a BDSM context.  If you decide your goals are the same, you can work together at planning a mutually enjoyable visit and deciding on whatever money (if any) is to be exchanged.

Elan.

(in reply to Saltwatergirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 10:22:47 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
quote:

ElanSubdued:
Perhaps I'm an oddball, but I conduct relationships so that my partner and I both are both personally rewarded.  Really, I've never seen any successful relationship where this isn't the case.  True enough, both partners have expenses in conducting a relationship, which, in turn, is part of what each contributes to the relationship.  Of course, as means and schedule allow, sometimes one partner contributes more than the other, but the basis isn't one partner compensating the other.


Egad.  This is worded in a rather difficult way.  Let's try one more time:

"Perhaps I'm an oddball, but I like relationships where my partner and I enjoy each other's company and both feel personally rewarded.  Really, I've never seen any successful relationship where this isn't the case.  True enough, partners have expenses in conducting a relationship, which, in turn, is part of what each contributes to the relationship.  Of course, as means and schedule allow, sometimes one partner contributes more than the other.  The basis, however, isn't one partner compensating the other.  It's a much more mutual and simultaneously organic thing."

There.  That's a little better. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 10:53:58 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
quote:

Saltwatergirl:
OK I have another question.  What do you look for in a slave?  Or maybe better yet - what is your idea of the perfect slave?

undergroundsea:
This

Sorry.  Couldn't resist ;-)


Undergroundsea:  Touche!

Saltwatergirl:  What my domme friends look for isn't much different than what I look for.  Take a look at the following thread:

How do you attract a submissive?
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1286511/mpage_1/tm.htm

Elan.

< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 1/8/2008 10:56:47 PM >

(in reply to Saltwatergirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 11:06:51 PM   
VeryCurious07


Posts: 45
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltwatergirl

Now after months and months this slave wants to try again to see if things could potentially work out. The tentitive plan for the visit is five days of 24/7 training.  I live in a rural private area and own a large estate.


I bolded the part that struck me as important in your post. Since enough people already spoke about the problematic issues in trying a relationship again that didn't work out the first time, I will not bother with that. However, what I am wondering is, why on earth are you looking to charge this guy for the week, if you and he are considering a mutual relationship? Correct me if I am in error, because perhaps this is the norm when people in the BSDM community hook up, but in my admitted ignorance of the lifestyles, I am scratching my head wondering what you are thinking. Though my experiences are obviously vanilla, I have never paid a woman to spend a week with her, nor charged for my "services". I guess what I'm trying to say here is are you a pro or a woman seeking a relationship with this person? If you are a pro, then fine. You are entitled to be paid for your services. If, on the other hand, you and he are considering forming a relationship, then might the financial transaction at the outset of your time together at least have the potential to start the relationship off on the wrong foot?

Again, if a "dowery" or monetary payment from a potential slave is the norm here, then I apologize for my ignorance.


<Just an edit to make an additional point> If there are expenses involved, such as you needing equipment, supplies and of course, food and other staples, then of course he should pay his share or even all of the added expense.

< Message edited by VeryCurious07 -- 1/8/2008 11:13:20 PM >

(in reply to Saltwatergirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 11:08:08 PM   
GoddessTeaze


Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
Saltwatergirl,
I do get the feeling that you really would like the aproval of... all of Uus, for what you we're planning on doing...?
-correct Me if I'm wrong-

I don't know how you live Bdsm, is this the first time that you want to train a sub 24/7?

That second question you've posted about what do you seek for in a slave, a perfect slave even...
-as if they exsist ?-

Again gives Me the feeling you arent sure about this slave..
and it's not about what all Wwe seek, but what is it that you seek in a slave.
Nobody is perfect, Wwe're all humans, and make mistakes, so maybe you should figure that part out first, and lower your expectations, before stepping into this.

I wish you loads of wisdom.

GoddezzT`


_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Need your opinion - 1/8/2008 11:14:57 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
This


Close, but deficient in the all-important "desperately attracted to me and oh-so-very-available" categories. 

Seriously:  for what I'm looking for in a submissive partner--character traits are a huge thing.  The one thing that is most likely to attract my interest and even move my heart is a consistently positive attitude--especially toward me and my power.  Ambivalence toward either is a turn-off.  Surrender, Dorothy!

After I've been attracted, the perfect slave is a person who genuinely loves me (real love being defined as "the desire to make someone else's life better"), and who genuinely loves my power and wants to nourish, encourage and increase it.  Even a good friend can sometimes show me what I need in this respect.

I had coffee tonight with a friend who gave me a late Christmas present:  a 19th-century Korean longsword.  I turned to him with a smile and said "Gee, hon--no man has ever loved me enough to give me 26 inches of sharpened steel before!" 



_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 40
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