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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:20:11 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

 Oh, sorry. I don't cap 'dominant' nor use lower case for 'submissive'. I hope that doesn't lead to confusion. I do speak of those here that are dominant or submissive and not the population in general.


I think you misunderstood my post.  I made the distinction in capitalization in order to better distinguish between being Dominant in a relationship dynamic, and being dominant as a personality trait.  It's not some sort of requirement.
 
John
 Thank you for clarifying, I indeed did misunderstand your post. I think that while I am on this site the difference fades for me because this is tailored to a lifestyle of dominant and/or submissive mindsets. Not for everyone I am aware, but for a lot of people here.People here don't post from a non BDSM viewpoint in general so I tend to focus on that.

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:22:33 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		More coffee is always good!
 
You are making sense camille, and I do think it comes from people who feel a need to define themselves and it is a bit of a power struggle hey.
 
If I go around proclaiming - 'I am not submissive to anyone else' - to me, that would be like demeaning our relationship.  I shouldn't have to explain myself to anyone, and it should simply be quite evident that I am his.  To have to proclaim it would be a sign of insecurity IMO, which is (I think) kind of what Leatherist was mentioning.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:24:41 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		If one is happy with something, they don't feel any real need to seek validation from outside.

They are, they don't need anyone to TELL THEM they are.

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:25:31 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Because if people said, I am submissive whatever, then that would be admitting that others have power over them.  And people do not like to admit that.
 
the.dark.
 Thanks, you brought up something. Why would that be hard to admit?If/when I admit that I don't grant power to anyone. I'm just saying what I am.Why the struggle?I'm submissive. Very much so. Yet I don't physically submit to everyone but I don't need to be a bitch to get that across.I think part of my confusion is the entire 'I'm submissive but a bitch' ideal. For me being a bitch is not something to aspire to. I can stay to my point or need without using that. Erm am I making sense or should I get more coffee?


Why does one have to be submissive or a bitch?  There are civil ways of being assertive.  I rarely raise my voice, swear or make a sceene but I also rarely submit to the whims of just anyone.

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:27:10 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

If one is happy with something, they don't feel any real need to seek validation from outside.

They are, they don't need anyone to TELL THEM they are.




the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:34:02 AM   
kimba1


Posts: 46
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Camille,

The way Rover explains it makes sense to me. I'm one of those who is dominant in the workplace (have to be, and want to be), and in almost all my dealings with people. I mentioned to a close friend that i am in a D/s relationship, and she mistakenly, instantly assumed i am the Dominant one. On the contrary, i crave submission in this relationship, but only in this one. My friend, she is the opposite. She is very submissive at work, and with just about everybody she meets. Even with me, she instantly becomes extremely submissive (it drives me nuts as i have no desire to domme her or anything like that!). But, in her intimate relationships with men, she is Dominant -- there is no doubt, and she loves it.

i'm not sure if that helps answer your question ...

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:34:05 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think that as I have grown into myself, accepting that I am what I am rather than trying to fight it as I did for many years I have become more dominant or assertive in other areas of my life. Not saying that is always a good thing. I work in a town of liberals, some of which are borderline communist in their equality for all fervor. Add that to the fact that women have a whole bunch of unspoken and unwritten "rules" that will always confuse the hell out of me.

Then, the fact that I actually live in a rural area where many women are quite subservient to their men, even if it is not their nature. Lots of angry undercurrents there. Lots of swaggering men and angry women running around, both not to fond of my style because they either feel threatened or jealous. That is without adding in the gender preference issue. I try to keep a fairly low profile with both issues, not tossing it in people's faces. However, there will always be a certain amount of the dominance and self assurance that seeps into interactions with people. That can work for me or against me, depending on the situation and the other people involved.


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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:36:21 AM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Cami,

 I personally chose to submit to those I know and trust with my submission. I do not submit to everyone because 70% of Dom's that claim as such do not deserve it. Will you personally give over your submission something precious and in some cases worth much more then just a word or a feeling to someone that has no respect and in general is an ass to you?  Many submissive selectively submit because this is usually a Dog eat Dog world. Kindness and submission stall you in the job world. I personally was refused a job because I was too nice to the interviewer. It also in some cases has a lot to do with the submissive fighting who they are. Coming to terms with this life and accepting it if its socially unacceptable where you live is hard. But in general its mostly a defense to make it in the vanilla world. I'm paranoid at times when it comes to some "flagging" Doms. This brings out the bitch in me. Someone I just met ordering me around like I'm some puppy dog, when I do not know or do not trust them. Isn't first going to fly and second isn't going to happen. So I guess I'm trying to say it has to do with in a job situation, making it in the vanilla world with out working minimum wage, and in the D/s world, not getting into someone who’s using the life as an opportunity to abuse the gift you freely hand over.

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:46:43 AM   
burningdesires47


Posts: 120
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		Switch perspective here...

Clearly can't be submitting to everyone if I'm going to top/Domme others. But rarely do I take either position with someone I am not sexual/in a relationship with. Similarly, I don't think it's confusing at all to say "I am a girlfriend/wife/partner" without having to say the part where it's "only in a romantic relationship with this person" (Ok, not confusing for a monogamist anyway). Why would it be confusing for someone to say "I am a submissive/Dominant" without having to specify that they are only in such relationships with person/people of their choosing?

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:49:10 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Dominant is me.

How it plays out is based on the situation and the appropriateness of the setting. Realizing that those differences exist is a sign of maturity in my opinion. One can have dominant desires or a dominant personality and behave in a respectful and appropriate manner. In fact I'd go so far as to say that if one cannot be appropriate then perhaps one is not master of oneself enough to consider themselves dominants but more bullies or a-holes.

Being selective and appropriate are also good skills for folks who feel submissive is part of being them.

I think my mind is still mostly back at the conference this past weekend. Sorry if the above makes little sense.

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(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 8:02:57 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		I was a submissive personality still am to a certain degree but I spent 28 having to look out for myself, raise a child and go to back to school for a job in a male dominated field,  even though I changed careers I am still in a job that is male dominated, if I did not stand up for myself and prove I could do jobs just as well as a man, I would still be living in poverty and likely living and had to raise my son in welfare housing, I also needed to set an example for my son, I was constantly having to deal with male authority figures, if I would not stand up to them, I would never have gotten loans at decent rates, or my home, I would not have gotten the jobs I did, I would have been stuck with lower paying jobs or lower grade jobs,  and in a male dominant workforce I would have be eaten up or given all the grunge work or forced out, when my son broke his arm I argued with the ER doctor to disagree with his opinion that my bones set at a 30 degree angle would not affect his abilities later in life, I got the second opinion I demanded from an orthopedic surgeon as a result and I was correct in believing it was unsatisfactory to leave as is.  I had to change and behave more dominantly if I wanted my needs met, it does not change my core of who I am, I want a life partner to that I can submit to, but I have become strong enough and secure enough to know I do not have to submit to everyone

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 8:09:16 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Why do submissives claim selective submission and dominants not?


camille65,
 
this slave has often wondered the same thing, and has come to the following two conclusions:
 
because selective submission is seen as acceptable, good and right to society at large.  to claim anything else would potentially earn one the "doormat", "mentally ill" or "incompetent" label.  One can run around espousing dominance of one's life, self, career, family, etc. and no-one bats an eyelash...it is seen as "healthy".
 
because, in our society, most of us are conditioned that ANY submission, especially from a modern-day woman = weak.  from day one most of us are taught to be in control of ourselves and bodily functions and not to submit to strangers, only the authority of the parental units...and even then only if they don't touch us the wrong way.  we are conditioned to believe that selective submission is "safe", "good" and "right".
 
this slave has always been curious as to why those that switch between submission and dominance don't embrace the label of switch instead of submissive.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/8/2008 8:18:00 AM >

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 8:14:39 AM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Camille,
 
I usually tend to stay away from this topic in particular because I feel my views aren't very popular and frankly, most of the people here can out talk me :)  But, with that being said, I consider myself a person with a submissive personality.  A proud submissive woman who surely doesn't drop to her knees to everyone.  Rover's first post made a lot of sense to me.  In distinguishing between the two differences.  I guess from a submissive point of view -- I am both.

What is always going to puzzle me is why people who label themselves as submissive are always screaming how they are NOT submissive in their every day lives.  As if even they see being submissive as also being weak or something to be ashamed of.  And that is fine that they are not,(submissive in their everyday lives)  but I am  - and I still manage to be a single parent and all those other things we speak of.  And I manage to do it well.
 

< Message edited by tricia -- 1/8/2008 8:16:09 AM >

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 8:40:34 AM   
raneMJH


Posts: 16
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline 		i can only answer for me, and i am a submissive who claims to be only submissive to one ( when i have a one).

for me it is trust, i only submit to someone i trust completely.

For many reasons that basically are just everyday life ( kids, finances, work, etc) i cannot submit to people in general nor would i even think to. That doesnt mean i am not nice or helpful to people, but i dont see those as submissive traits just good ones.



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rane

*A life lived in fear, is a life half-lived*

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 8:42:44 AM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Camille,

I believe your question deals with much more than selectivity on the part of both dominants and submissives, with is not clearly stated.

All of us, sub switch or dom has the right and ability to seek and focus upon finding partners that suit our needs. If we are not selective often we will miss good matches in the confusion of trying out incompatible folks.

A submissive may be puuting his or her life at stake when submitting to someone. This is certainly a great reason for selectivity. The dom could also be getting into danger, but generally they have much more control of what is to happen.

Your question also implies that monogamy is a situation the selective person seeks, while poly or multiple partner relationships are not. I know you do not say this, but I got that feeling from the note.

In fact selectively chosing the best compatible and safe partners to join you in monogamy or in a poly relationship are both very good survival traits.

Some female or male subs can not handle sharing. Some crave it.

Some female or male doms can not handle sharing, some can.

LOL the major religious systems of the USA primarily encourage monogamy as an ideal to strive for. When this does not work we end up with serial monogamy, where one must end it with one partner before seeking another.

There are a lot of religions and value systems in the world which do NOT see monogamy as an ideal and encourage various forms of poly behavior.

Whether my slave has a sister slave to help serve me or has a male or female slave of her own to serve her is OK as long as all are honest consenting adults who knowingly agree to join the relationship.

Whether or not a mistress who enslaves me also has a master or mistress she serves is no problem as long as all knowingly consent to the situation.

Naturally the trust question gets quite important in a poly situation since it is the job of everyone to insure that all fluid bonding in the realtionship involves only safe partners.


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As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 9:00:50 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am trying to imagine a world where all dominant males exerted their dominance over everyone.  Each dom would be trying to outdo the other to show how much more control they had. 
Poor little submissive personalities would be following along, doing things to make it easier, and smoother for each dominant (not just one because they must please all the dominants), people running around not knowing what to do until..
One dominant in the country would decide his way was IT and all people had to follow it.  And those who chose not to follow must be destroyed.
Hmm... sounds vaguely historical.

Seriously, what is so hard to get about people being more than a single mindset?
I would not be submissive to my children or they would have grown up to be brats. I see being submissive in some (most) situations as something which does not enable offspring to learn to stand on their own as adults.  I would not be submissive as an employer or there would be no company.  I would not be submissive to the public at large because there are simply not that many hours of the day.  If I was submissive to everyone and I did find another mate, what would be left for him?
People who are submissive to everyone, or dominant to everyone confuse the heck out of me.
I like to think people are more than one dimension.
Kyst


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 9:07:08 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Perhaps because not everything in life can be labeled in BDSM terms. 
I am submissive in a bdsm way. 
Why would someone who is not into bdsm label themselves as a switch because they sometimes had to take charge and at others had to be ruled?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave has always been curious as to why those that switch between submission and dominance don't embrace the label of switch instead of submissive.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 9:20:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst 
Why would someone who is not into bdsm label themselves as a switch because they sometimes had to take charge and at others had to be ruled?
Kyst


this slave was referring to folks who label themselves submissive, yet present themselves as switching between dominance and submission depending on the situation, individual or circumstance, not folks who don't label themselves at all.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/8/2008 9:21:34 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 9:22:19 AM   
JDEmpath


Posts: 34
Joined: 1/5/2008
Status: offline 		Ok.

Since you asked...

I think I might be the only male Dominant so far to chime in who freely admits specifically to being NOT socially dominant. I find the idea of social dominance bothersome, primarily because it by definition implies that consent is not given. I do not dominate those from whom consent has not been given. In everyday life, I consider my ideal personality to be one of "Non-resistance". Essentially this means going with the flow of things.

This is a complex subject, since the dynamics of human society are fluid and can never be completely understood. Our society (especially in the West) has evolved to be mainly power-based. I eschew this concept and do everything possible to not participate in its many facets. This does not mean that I do not have opinions, or courage. I tend not to ask for something unless I am certain that it is what I want, and am very clear about it. I also have had numerous times in job-related situations where I have spoken my mind, truthfully and honestly, to someone with higher "office". Occasionally this has proven fatal to my job, sometimes it has caused me to gain more respect, but I do it purely for the reason that were I to withhold my honest and true input, it would be disrespectful to them and me, a kind of lie. The result, over time, is that I am doing just fine in business, thank you.

I might also point out that I have been privy to a great many complaints (behind closed doors) coming from those who are more socially dominant than me, and aimed at their "superiors" in work situations. It seemed that they might behave in a socially domineering fashion, and yet when push came to shove, they lied or withheld their opinions because they were afraid of losing their position. So much for the Alpha.

I refuse to play this game, from either aspect. I choose to respect people as people, not as positions. If this makes my demeanor appear to be socially submissive, so be it. I have no qualms about it. I will respect you for WHO you are, not WHAT you are. I expect the same treatment, but society has yet to grow up from adolescence. In my castle, however, we play by different rules.




(in reply to vield)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 9:47:44 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I think that often when people identify themselves as dom, sub, switch, ect, having embraced themselves and their kink, they just carry it over into the regular non kinked world.  Few people are always submissive, or dominant to everyone.  We are just people who may label themselves as only sub or dom to one person and not in general,.. but they do so to clarify that for many of us, there is more to our life than this stuff we do. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave was referring to folks who label themselves submissive, yet present themselves as switching between dominance and submission depending on the situation, individual or circumstance, not folks who don't label themselves at all.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 40
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