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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 4:01:07 PM

fsub4use

Posts: 94
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

If one has to go on and on about a dynamic-it usually points to the need to self justify doing it. I see subs doing it constantly. Very few Tops with any experience seem to need to bray on and on to sate thier catholic guilt over being what they are.

I think this is unfair to subs. It's not that we necessarily have to go on and on about a dynamic... it's that we need to protect ourselves. Many subs tend to be sensitive and gentle (that is, submissive) by nature and the world can be harsh to us. Also, sadly, many "doms" in the lifestyle cross the line between dominant personality type to demanding asshole. So, while I prefer to live as a submissive person, in the real world it is neither practical nor safe... same in this lifestyle as well. I suppose I could just kick the "doms" in the nuts, but that would ruin my shoes.

And to the OP, I think that if the world were safer for submissve types to be that way without being trampled on, you would see many more of us NOT making that statement about being submissve for the proverbial One. The statements "I am submissive but not to you." "I am submissive only to the One" - they sound pretty defensive (in a good way) to me. They are about safety. There would be those things that belong to the One but a more submissive stance would be seen, if we didn't have to build up a wall of safety imho. Of course this is all conjecture and may just be my lack of sleep talking...

and yes, I desperately need coffee but think a nap would be better.
*and I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this was already said.

peace...

edited cause i'm so tired i went in under my old name... blah... sunshine miss.

< Message edited by fsub4use -- 1/8/2008 4:03:04 PM >

_____________________________

*i can usually be found under the name sunshinemiss

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 61

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 4:07:37 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Heres my question to cami and beth:
Say you are owned, or are working towards an ownership with Dom A, and you have a party where there are other Dom's around. Say Dom A tells you to go get him a particular item in another room and Dom B a Dom that happens to be at the party tells you to get him a drink and both are demanding to be the first one done. Obviously, in most cases, you are going to choose Dom A, because he is someone you are either in a relationship with or aspiring to be in a relationship with. That makes you selectively submissive, does it not? When I am owned and can follow the orders of One man at a time. He who ever he might be will be the first orders I follow no matter what. I give my heart soul body and trust to him. He comes first, even if he orders me to follow the orders of a another person, that person isn't in control of me and I'm not submitting to them, I'm submitting to my owner. So I think in the case of ownership we are all selectively submissive to the one that owns us, because he has the say on what it is we do and what it is we don't.

-La Kitten

beth is "owned" and more than capable to answer the question directly should she choose.

My short answer - It is just not that difficult or complicated in real life.

Whatever "what if..." you can devise, observing beth for a short time will confirm her dedication and her sincerity to living true to her nature. Those wishing to do so have the opportunity tonight at our South Bay munch where you are free to observe and ask her anything in person.

And before you ask, I won't chop her arm off with a chain saw to prove her 'no-limits' representation either.

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 62

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 4:14:15 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Heres my question to cami and beth:
Say you are owned, or are working towards an ownership with Dom A, and you have a party where there are other Dom's around. Say Dom A tells you to go get him a particular item in another room and Dom B a Dom that happens to be at the party tells you to get him a drink and both are demanding to be the first one done. Obviously, in most cases, you are going to choose Dom A, because he is someone you are either in a relationship with or aspiring to be in a relationship with. That makes you selectively submissive, does it not? When I am owned and can follow the orders of One man at a time. He who ever he might be will be the first orders I follow no matter what. I give my heart soul body and trust to him. He comes first, even if he orders me to follow the orders of a another person, that person isn't in control of me and I'm not submitting to them, I'm submitting to my owner. So I think in the case of ownership we are all selectively submissive to the one that owns us, because he has the say on what it is we do and what it is we don't.

-La Kitten

beth is "owned" and more than capable to answer the question directly should she choose.

My short answer - It is just not that difficult or complicated in real life.

Whatever "what if..." you can devise, observing beth for a short time will confirm her dedication and her sincerity to living true to her nature. Those wishing to do so have the opportunity tonight at our South Bay munch where you are free to observe and ask her anything in person.

And before you ask, I won't chop her arm off with a chain saw to prove her 'no-limits' representation either.

I would smile at Dom B and tell him that I will get his drink after I get my Dom A his drink. I'm feeling like I'm missing the hard part to that question lol.I AM with Dom A, I have been for nearly 8 years so it is more than likely that Dom B would know that as well. I would bring B a drink out of simple courtesy.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 63

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 4:16:05 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Whatever "what if..." you can devise, observing beth for a short time will confirm her dedication and her sincerity to living true to her nature. Those wishing to do so have the opportunity tonight at our South Bay munch where you are free to observe and ask her anything in person.

And before you ask, I won't chop her arm off with a chain saw to prove her 'no-limits' representation either.

'What if' questions drive me nuts. They are endless and pointless. Why can't people just ask direct questions?

Wish i could be at your munch tonight. It would be fun to be back in my ol' neighborhood, again. It would be very nice to meet the two of you in person and have a nice chat. Hope it's not too soggy out there tonight.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 64

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 6:11:09 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I will have to echo Rover- people just constantly mix up having a submissive PERSONALITY with having a submissive ORIENTATION. They are completely different- though can co exist in the same person.

And to add that having an authority dynamic IN a relationship is not the same thing as having a relationship BASED UPON an authority dynamic.

I think if people kept those concepts in mind, there'd be a lot less confusion and worry. Unfortunately, it doesn't make things easy and black and white, so most people don't like it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 65

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 6:25:36 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

I tend to be a very quiet person, not very social, very layed back, rarely abrasive or aggressive unless a boundary is crossed, and don't push to be "in charge" or "in control" of much of anything except my own life and projects that interest me. It caused me a degree of anguish because I was labeled a few times with the infamous "Only he's not really dominant" or "Your not really a dominant, your more submissive" tagline by a few people at munches.

Now with experience and better self awareness, it doesn't bother me to much. The dynamics I engage in on an intimate level with someone who's own desires allow for that aspect of myself to come out are very different then how I act with all other people, socially or professionally. In a sense, when I make a natural connection between someone, then the rest just falls into place.

I think it's much the same on the other end as well and tend to agree with Leatherist that the constant reinforcement of the notion "Only submissive to One" stems from insecurity over what someone is. Ironically, I find that same insecurity to manifest in a different way with self labeled dominants. They feel they aren't dominant enough so they attempt to be dominant to everyone.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 66

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 6:43:08 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Why do submissives claim selective submission and dominants not? I'm curious and in need of coffee.

Great questions! Personally, I see quite a good mix of subs who say "I only submit to my ONE" and contrarily "I've always been submissive and it doesn't take much to make me want to submit." The former are usually females with very outgoing personalities who want to make it clear that they aren't going to be walked all over just cause they prefer the submissive role in a relationship. The latter are usually men who are trying to impress me with just *how* submissive they are as if that's going to entice me to dominate them.

I personally prefer the type of person who is courteous to everyone but doesn't technically submit to everyone. Some people have more submissive personalities in general and prefer not to be in a leadership role in life but that doesn't mean they are submitting to the entire world, at least that's not the way I see it. Some people have very outgoing dominant personalities but that doesn't mean they are dominating the entire world either. We have to remember that D/s as we define it occurs between 2 or more consenting people and is very different from what we expect in our interactions out in the world even if those interactions do entail giving directions or taking them. It is in no way a D/s relationship to be the boss at work or an employee.

All in all, I don't think there is a true trend for doms to be domlier and submissives submissive-ier outside their relationships. You see just as many submissives who are high powered professionals in the outside world as you see dominants who are high powered professionals in the outside world. And then of course the submissives and dominants alike who can't get their lives together (but they always seem to find someone who will dominate them or submit to them nonetheless. You and I may have higher standards of who we'd consider worthy of submitting to, but if a 40 year old hamburger flipper can find a girlfriend who thinks he's the domliest dom that ever walked the earth, then who are we to tell them he's not really dominant cause he can't hold a job for more than minimum wage?

I think that we would like to believe that TRUE doms would be dominant in all capacities of their lives, though I know many subs who would go to great lengths to make sure you know the exact opposite: that they are NOT submissive in all capacities of their lives. Bottom line is, I don't think that there's any real rule and people come in a vast range of degrees from someone who is 100% dominant in all realms to 100% submissive in all realms to people who are the complete opposite in a relationship of what they are outside it, to people who are somewhere in between.

As to why doms specifically don't go out of their way to tell you they only dom one special person, well, I think they mostly have less of a need to and in other cases I think they do say that, but perhaps more privately than in public profiles and whatnot. I know I do at least.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 67

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 6:56:28 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Ah szobras yes. That is what I mean. I am just myself and I am submissive. Eager to help, eager to smooth the path for everyone. I don't pick and choose nor do I bow and scrape. I do however try and reach out to everyone. I try to make things 'good or easier' for people if I have the ability, I'm happy to back down at the first sign of displeasure towards me from another because that is just me.

Someone may have said this already (I'm responding as I read) but I would say that what you've described about yourself is less "submissive" and more "service oriented" or "people pleasing" when it comes to everyone (as opposed to "the one.) You're not submitting to every single person in your life but you do strive to serve them by making thing easier and a LOT of people are that way, even Dominants and people with dominant personalities (thanks for that John.) I'm not saying you're not submissive, just that you may not necessarily be as submissive to everyone as you think you are, in which case you have more in common with those who only submit to one person than you might think. Imagine that your Dom ordered you to not be so helpful all the time to other people because he wanted all of your energy reserved for him. Would you submit to that order? If so, then you'd be submitting to him, your chosen one. If you could not comply with that order because you felt the need to serve everyone equally then I would say that you indeed are the world's submissive at large. Nothing is wrong with either way, I just thought having a different perspective on it might help you understand this whole "only one" thing.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 68

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:19:22 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Why do submissives claim selective submission and dominants not? I'm curious and in need of coffee.

Usually, and I realize this is a huge generialization, usually random submissives don't run up to doms all the time trying to submit when it isn't wanted.

Oh, you innocent thing, you! ;) Try putting up a fake domme profile for a bit, especially one with a hot picture (doesn't have to even be you) and you might come back to retract that statement! I know, I know, you disclaimed it but I couldn't resist.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 69

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 7:57:05 PM

liljoy

Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline

beth,
i understand your confusion. i hope i can shed some light on it for you and others. in my everyday life my personality is submissive. If i didn't have the job that i have i might not be as able to understand the ability to switch the role i'm in with a situation or person. Given a choice i'd much rather make a suggestion if i see that something needs to be done. Sometimes though there is a life on the line literally. The nurse that called and the patient they called me for are dependent on me to know what needs to be done. Sometimes it's as simple as ok do this and the problem is solved. Other times it's more complicated and we do this, this and this. Now i need you to call the doctor and tell him/her what happened and what we did to fix it. If in either of those situations i didn't step up and take the lead to solve the problem or at least do all that i know to do to help it. i wouldn't be the slave that my Master is proud to own or as valuable an employee as we want me to be to my employer.
Sometimes there are things going on that i'm not able to figure out. Then too i need to know my limitations. i do what i can do and then tell the nurse to call the doctor or call in the team designed to deal with the situation.
So see while i can when need step into the dominant role when i have to it's not one that i prefer to be in. When i'm not a work i'm not pushed into the position of having to step into the dominant role so i can be what and who i am meant to be

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave was referring to folks who label themselves submissive, yet present themselves as switching between dominance and submission depending on the situation, individual or circumstance, not folks who don't label themselves at all.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 70

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 8:02:46 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

I personally prefer the type of person who is courteous to everyone but doesn't technically submit to everyone. Some people have more submissive personalities in general and prefer not to be in a leadership role in life but that doesn't mean they are submitting to the entire world, at least that's not the way I see it.

Nicely said. i treat people with courtesy and consideration and i try to be helpful but, i don't see that as being either submissive to them or being a 'people pleaser.' i took 'Assertiveness Training' many years ago and passed it. i will help anyone, when and if i can, but i also have no problem saying, "No, i'm sorry. i can't help you with that this time." i also don't have any problem speaking up and making sure that i get my voice heard and my needs met, without being pushy or rude. But, within my intimate relationship, i never say, "i'm sorry. i can't do that." i bend over backwards to please my Master and when He says, "Jump", i don't ask, "How high?", i just start jumping, knowing that He will tell me to jump higher, if it's not high enough. He's the One i serve and obey. To everyone else, i am just polite and considerate.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 71

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 8:11:23 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

beth,
i understand your confusion. i hope i can shed some light on it for you and others. in my everyday life my personality is submissive. If i didn't have the job that i have i might not be as able to understand the ability to switch the role i'm in with a situation or person. Given a choice i'd much rather make a suggestion if i see that something needs to be done. Sometimes though there is a life on the line literally. The nurse that called and the patient they called me for are dependent on me to know what needs to be done. Sometimes it's as simple as ok do this and the problem is solved. Other times it's more complicated and we do this, this and this. Now i need you to call the doctor and tell him/her what happened and what we did to fix it. If in either of those situations i didn't step up and take the lead to solve the problem or at least do all that i know to do to help it. i wouldn't be the slave that my Master is proud to own or as valuable an employee as we want me to be to my employer.
Sometimes there are things going on that i'm not able to figure out. Then too i need to know my limitations. i do what i can do and then tell the nurse to call the doctor or call in the team designed to deal with the situation.
So see while i can when need step into the dominant role when i have to it's not one that i prefer to be in. When i'm not a work i'm not pushed into the position of having to step into the dominant role so i can be what and who i am meant to be

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave was referring to folks who label themselves submissive, yet present themselves as switching between dominance and submission depending on the situation, individual or circumstance, not folks who don't label themselves at all.

liljoy,

thank you for taking the time to graciously explain how it works for you. if this slave understands what you are saying correctly, you "have to", in order to remain employed, but you would rather not "have to" take on a dominant role, ever, and therefore identify as submissive, instead of switch.
did this slave get what you were saying?

(in reply to liljoy)

Post #: 72

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 8:21:52 AM

AMaster

Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

When you find the right sub- one is all you should need.

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 73

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 9:13:19 AM

liljoy

Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline

beth,
Oh gosh i've learned so much from ya'll that i feel honored to help you understand something.
If given the choice at work i would rather make a suggestion or to do something myself than to have to tell someone what to do. Sometime there is just not time for that so i have to be assertive. Hmm now i'm wondering if assertive is the same thing as dominant lol.

Anyway i just can't imagine comming home to Master and saying because i let a nurse tell be how to do my job i let a person die. Part of my service as Master's slave is that i do my job to the very best of my ability. So to me that doesn't make me a switch because i do what has to be done at the time and then go back to being myself.

i'm sitting here trying to come up with some non work related examples that you might be better relate to but my mind is comming up blank, sorry

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 74

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 9:24:10 AM

Owner4SexSlave

Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

I hope my response will make sense here, since I'm a Dom.

My personality is Dominant, I'm very out going and forward, yet very laid back in my day to day life.   It's funny though that some people mistake my laid back attitude at times for something else, to only have it bite them in the ass later.

First and formost being Dominant does not mean I desire nor want to Dom everybody around me. That Carries with it extra responsibility.   There's a time and a place and reason to extert Dom engery.

If anything I'm very subtle and naturally gain power or control, through such things as honestly, gaining respect and being able to make decisions or tell somebody like it is. I'm also pretty damn good at creative thinking and trying to find insight to things.

I tend to not think about my Dom personality too much when dealing with people, because I fear it would get to my head. I just interact normally with other people being a freak about it.

I do enjoy being in charge of things, I don't walk around insisting that I should be though. It just kind of naturally happens.

I don't get along well with control freaks, the bad kind that everybody bitches about. I might tolerate dealing with them I have too. If anything I have gained the respect of some of these so called wacko control freaks through their very own weaknesses. I tend to engage in blunt logical and honest conversations with 'em. Honestly is more fun compared to not expressing myself.

Last Saturday night, I actually had a long conversation with a Dom personality control freak from hell.   I even told him I had been saying "Fuck <insert name>" to other people in the social group during the week.   What the Hell, he can't say I was talking behind his back.   My Date for evening slide away for a bit, thinking a major fight might break out or something.   The thing is to express myself in a respectful and honest manner, and not in anger.   Blah, blah, blah... Basically, I had explained to him how his actions were causing other people to loose respect for him.  Hell, I even went into detail about how his control freak issues was in fact undermining the control he was trying to get from people. Like they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it.

Like I said, I'm pretty laid back for the most part. But press my buttons and I can kick up to Uber Dom mode. Not a pretty sight for other DOM personalities that mistake my Laid back attitude at times for being a passive submissive type. I have had a number of experiences where I ended up putting somebody back in their place.   At times, I might not do it right away. Timing can be everything.   Seeing me in Uber Dom mode while I'm pissed off is not a pretty sight though. LOL.. but even when I'm angry and pissed, I still have logical and rational mind going on. Think of Spock being pissed off still using vulcan logic.

I do play well with other DOM personalities that are not off the wall control freaks. Call it a matter of mutual respect.   I in fact enjoy brainstorming sessions with other DOM personalities. Might appear as arguments to people around us, but it's good clean honest constructive debate that is going down.

There are situations where I simply operating on a passive mode, why? Because I'm indifferent to WTF is going on. The trick about control is knowing what one can or can not control. At times, it's good to simply grin and deal with it, and depart from it, or make plans to depart or confront it later on.   Coming up with a solution to it might require some extra thought and observation.   Oh yeah, I tend to observe people around me and what the Hell they are saying and doing.

One thing I have found is that people, everybody, wants a sense of purpose or direction. Including other Dom personalities. Everybody enjoys it when you find the good things about them. Since praise and compliments goes a long way. I'm not talking about insince flattery here. I'm talking about good old fashioned honestly.   Many people look for the bad qualities in one another, and don't try to look for the good things.   Don't really know how to explain this in anymore detail. I have told people that they have been acting like an asshole lately, instead of just being a person talking behind their back. Some people are not worth the effort or my breath.   I'll keep things short and simple with 'em.

The thing is that I don't treat people outside of any BDSM lifestyle relationship like I owned them. Instead, like I said... I try to keep their respect, and give advice and direction to take in situations. I also tend to try to encourage people to GO for it, when it comes to self improvement, or trying new things.   Help them believe in themselves and their talents and what they are capable of.

Well, I'm in need to DOMing my own ass right now. I'm ordering myself to post this and get back to work now.

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 75

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 10:16:44 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Fast Reply to no one in particular....

Lifestylers are humans, and as such I expect to find any of the common human frailties equally distributed within the BDSM community. Still, that does not stop me from feeling a twinge whenever I run across inferences of superiority assigned to people's personal choices. And frankly, I cannot ignore the "I'm subbier than you" attitude associated with those who infer that others who are submissive in their relationship dynamics but dominant (small "d") in their employment or have what they consider to be dominant (small "d") personality traits are "really" switches, not submissives/slaves.

Not surprisingly, some of the folks who make such inferences do so with regularity, no matter how many disclaimers may be profered.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)

Post #: 76

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 10:33:23 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

Rover,

this slave has no sublier than thou attitude and made no inference that she was in any way superior to others---if that's the perception you got from her, or any of her postings, you couldn't be further from the truth.

this slave does not go about debasing anyone's chosen label, folks can call themselves purple spotted goats and it would have no bearing on this slave's estimation of her position.

perhaps it is because this slave doesn't see ANY one label or orientation or personality as superior or inferior to the other that she has such a hard time understanding the ones folks choose.

curiosity of something one does not understand does not equal inferred superiority of that which one does.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 77

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 10:36:22 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

If given the choice at work i would rather make a suggestion or to do something myself than to have to tell someone what to do. Sometime there is just not time for that so i have to be assertive. Hmm now i'm wondering if assertive is the same thing as dominant lol.
Anyway i just can't imagine comming home to Master and saying because i let a nurse tell be how to do my job i let a person die. Part of my service as Master's slave is that i do my job to the very best of my ability. So to me that doesn't make me a switch because i do what has to be done at the time and then go back to being myself.

i'm sitting here trying to come up with some non work related examples that you might be better relate to but my mind is comming up blank, sorry

joy,
Don't concern yourself, no additional reference is needed for my (Merc) response. If beth needs further clarity I'm sure she'll address it.
The problem with "what if..."scenarios, work scenarios, or debating whether a particular act or action is dominant or submissive isn't the nature of the submission or dominance representation that we are making. We are talking about a philosophy of life that we are comfortable living.

I feel I have dominance over my life and yet I submit to every traffic light, submit to paying taxes, submit to paying bills. Why does that reflect dominance? The decision is mine to do so. Not paying would take my dominance out of my hands. I'd be in the control of my creditors, the government, or my prison guard if my failure to submit to traffic laws pilled up. Meanwhile, I love dominating and do so at every possible opportunity, be it the exact table at a restaurant, seat at a concert, or where I live. beth may not have limits, but I do. Financial, time, and ability limits among others are constantly in play. My dominance over those limits is important to both of us. I never exceed them or get close to shouting my safe-word.

Its the same with your assertion at work. Your Master has your job as part of the service dynamic to him. Handling the assertive requirement of your job - You are submitting.

I assign beth full control over our dogs. I have no skill and no desire to gain skill in that regard. she is extremely effective and our dogs listen to her much quicker than than do to me. If she applied the same assertiveness and I allowed he, using the same words, and tone for that matter as a pro domme - she'd have men waiting in line. Yet if I did, the activity would still be submission. Regardless of how dominant she is with our dogs or would be with 'customers' her life is nothing but submission. I very grateful and consider myself 'blessed' that I am now the focus of her submission.

There were two recent threads about voting and a Master's power to control a slave's vote. beth was in the minority, I thing there was one other, saying that I did have the right to make her vote for whoever I chose. That brings up another aspect of this issue; because you CAN you are NOT required to DO. I wouldn't dictate her vote, but I know I can. There are a whole bunch of other things that I know I can do as her Master but I don't.

Neither of us have anything to gain by providing proof about any aspect of our dynamic. We hope that everyone feels the same about their dynamic, or has it as a goal for the dynamic they aspire. I'll say it once again. You can not ask a magic question, and neither of us can provide a magic answer, which would provide an absolute image of beth's submission or my dominance. We don't feel it is a matter of semantics, but if you do we wouldn't argue long on the issue.

We know for sure two things; we live our lives true to our nature as it is today. A nature 'discovered' after a lifelong and ongoing process of self awareness. As we grow old and our experiences lead to new perspectives our paths may separate but for now, we leave only one set of footprints in the sand. I'll leave it to others to determine who is carrying whom. The second thing is more absolute. My dominance and beth's submission are meaningless without the other.

(in reply to liljoy)

Post #: 78

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/9/2008 11:19:20 AM

liljoy

Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline

Merc,
Thank You for the dog example. i was trying to think of a more people based example so the other one works even better for what i was grasping for. So thank You for that one also.
As far as voting goes i am in the minority with beth. If Master ordered for me to vote for one person over the others i would do it. Not because i think i'm more subly than anyone else or to prove to anyone that i am. The reason i would do it would be because i would know that if Master saw fit to make such an order He would have a darn good reason. He wouldn't give the order on a whim or just because He can.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 79

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