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RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 10:09:53 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

this slave gets what your saying, Missokyst---it's a semantics game, and this slave doesn't want to leave you or anyone with the impression that their labels, whichever they choose to use, aren't valid or real for them. it is not this slave's place to assign labels to others, that is for them to choose to do.

that being said, this slave agrees with you that few are submissive or dominant to all, which is why it's always been a curiousity as to why so many have an aversion to the label switch...they end up explaining who and when and where and if they will submit anyway, as does those who label themselves switch, so what exactly is being clarified by adopting the label submissive when there are persons, situations and circumstances that exist in their lives that would cause one to express their dominance, or dominant side?

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 41

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 10:16:48 AM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
Why would someone who is not into bdsm label themselves as a switch because they sometimes had to take charge and at others had to be ruled?
Kyst

this slave was referring to folks who label themselves submissive, yet present themselves as switching between dominance and submission depending on the situation, individual or circumstance, not folks who don't label themselves at all.

How can one explain their views in a post like this without labling themselves , how I describe my role that I have had to take on ftom the age of 20 on due to life circumstances one would say I am a dominant which is not my core personality.

It would be like a nurse in critical care whose job function is to care for the patient and monitor their vitals, but if the patient codes red and the doctor cannot get there immediately, she may have to start live saving measures on her own (the doctor role) following a procedures she has likely witnessed a doctor do a hundred or more times, she still is a nurse and definitely not less of one not is she a doctor, the only thing that has changed is her actions at that time and place due to circumstances.

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 42

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 10:37:58 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

It is probably because we are so involved in labeling this stuff we do. Labeled with a submissive tag you are more likely to find a dominant, labeled with a switch tag you may find a few submissives after you, other switches, or dominants that are not bothered by a sub who switches sides on occasion. Labels work here to identify how you see yourself. Labels are less important in the regular world, but.. we all live in the regular world too.
In this stuff that we do;
I am not a switch, though I have topped to bring people pleasure. Topping for me is a submissive act, I get no great joy from power.
In life;
I am dynamic, used to being in charge, not afraid to step back or step forward. I am not submissive there because it is not a bdsm venue. Therefore I am also not a switch. I am simply another person getting by, either by compliance, or determination to get ahead. Domination or submission has nothing to do with it.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

that being said, this slave agrees with you that few are submissive or dominant to all, which is why it's always been a curiousity as to why so many have an aversion to the label switch...they end up explaining who and when and where and if they will submit anyway, as does those who label themselves switch, so what exactly is being clarified by adopting the label submissive when there are persons, situations and circumstances that exist in their lives that would cause one to express their dominance, or dominant side?

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 43

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 11:17:42 AM

SayaNereida

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline

Camille,

I do have a submissive personality in general (by my own definition).
However, I submit myself; body, heart, mind and soul to only one.

Saya

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 44

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 12:35:28 PM

slavekal

Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

Ms. Mlicious is one of the sweetest and friendliest people you would ever meet (except for when she is drawing blood with her whips). Even though she has some authority in her job, she is never mean or bossy to people. So no, not all dominatrixes dominate people all the time and everyplace.

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 45

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 12:41:30 PM

FRSguy

Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I see here where many female submissives state that they are submissive to their One and only their One. That made me wonder about the other side, the dominants. Are dominants then only dominant to their one? Are they otherwise perfectly normal in all other areas of life such as work? Do dominants step back in every area of their life except towards their s-type

Thats kind of a complicated question to answer but in short yes and no...lol
I started out with a very sub personality when it comes to my day to day dealings that evolved as dominant over the past 5 or 6 years. I would have to say that I definatly dont treat woman in general in a Dominant type fashion at least not the way I treat my girl otherwise I would probably be in jail. I am in general dominant with woman however I am doiminant only in the way that I am decisive about things. I find that many men are not. I know what I like and I know what I want and I am not afraid to speak my mind however I dont think I act like an asshole and never really want a woman in my presence to feel as though I think they are less than myself. I would have to say that I am definatly dominant allmost all my daily type life dealings however there are a couple of categories that I have a tendency to shy away from and I still have to work at. The number one of these issues is taxes and money which I generaly get profesional help with. If you had met me some 15 years ago you would have seen someone that got stepped on in nearly every aspect of life.... I much happier now...lol

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 46

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 1:13:46 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Why do submissives claim selective submission and dominants not? I'm curious and in need of coffee.

Good question. Made me think. Glad I had a triple shot espresso awhile ago.

I can't speak for every sub, of course; but for me, as a sub (who has difficult submitting sometimes) societal acceptance has something to do with this. I have an extremely submissive personality but have been taught for many years and in most areas of my life that it is not acceptable to be submissive; therefore, I have to feel completely safe in order to submit. Even when I do have that safety, submitting can be a challenge.

Don't know if this explains it for anyone else.

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 47

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 1:43:57 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I doubt most dominants call their mothers on Sunday afternoon and bark orders at her. Or tell a police officer to stfu when being lectured on speeding. Or even talk back to their boss. At least, not the ones who stay out of trouble, keep a steady job and have a strong support system.

As far as being submissive to everyone, does that mean if a drunk construction worker shouted at you to show him your tits that you would? Do you refuse to ask for correct change if the cashier counts it out wrong?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 48

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 1:53:26 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

As far as being submissive to everyone, does that mean if a drunk construction worker shouted at you to show him your tits that you would?

Well duh. Yes. But who waits for the shout to do it?

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 49

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 1:58:19 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Why do submissives claim selective submission and dominants not? I'm curious and in need of coffee.

Usually, and I realize this is a huge generialization, usually random submissives don't run up to doms all the time trying to submit when it isn't wanted.

Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen - I know it does. But I would bet there is a higher frequency of dominants trying to control submissives that aren't theirs than submissives trying to submit to dominants who aren't theirs. Which is why I think you hear that phrase "Only submissive to one", it evolved because it was needed.

I never stop being submissive. But I don't submit to every man - not every man inspires me to submit. Even those that do, they can't control me because they aren't my dominant. I will probably get them something to drink if they ask nicely but at the end of the day they aren't my dominant and Valyraen doesn't want me serving others without his permission.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/8/2008 2:02:18 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 50

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 1:58:29 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

As far as being submissive to everyone, does that mean if a drunk construction worker shouted at you to show him your tits that you would?

Well duh. Yes. But who waits for the shout to do it?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 51

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 2:31:30 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Very few Tops with any experience seem to need to bray on and on to sate thier catholic guilt over being what they are.

But... but... but.... I AM Catholic!! I'm ENTITLED! (Wow...not often that I can get away with saying THAT!!!

We're taught from the cradle catholics we begin as to invest heavily in guilt...they put it in our bottles, they mush it up in our food, and when we finally get to the solids, we get whole PLATEFULS of that catholic guilt, so don't go telling ME I can't sate my catholic guilt via my submissiveness! I've EARNED IT!! I HAVE!! ... oh dear... I feel so badly that I've said that!

Beyond that...quit blaming the Catholics for my submissiveness!!
lol

*sigh*

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 1/8/2008 2:37:23 PM >

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 52

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 2:35:02 PM

Honsoku

Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline

With some reiteration of what others have said;

People claim selective submission to say that they are not submissive to everybody. While this is true for some, it does have a "thou doth protest too much" quality to it. Some people find there submissive side is either satisfied by being submissive to just one person, or that they only know one person who can bring it out, so their submissive side just isn't present towards others.

Most people are selectively dominant. As another mentioned, someone who exerted dominance all the time would be an outcast, criminal, etc. Such a person would have no compunction against breaking laws whenever it suited them. We all spend most of our lives in some degree of submission to social rules and laws (unless you are a hermit).

There are several reasons why people don't claim selective dominance. One of the big ones is that around here is that it is perceived as being less dominant, and thereby less attractive or less authoritative. The other reason is that we tend to categorize behavior into two classes, dominant or submissive. One does not have be acting submissively if they not dominating. If I stand in line at the bank, I'm not dominating the situation by cutting to the front of the line, does that make me submissive?

I would say that being selectively dominant would be a mark of intellectual maturity and mental mastery. It is a mark of maturity as it acknowledges one's own limitations, that one does not know everything and that others can know more and have excellent judgment as well, so one would be unwise to try to dominate every situation. Think about what a feat of mental mastery it would be to take that part of one's self that so many say is innate and unchangeable and, if only for a short time, be able to turn it off.

To answer Beth; While some may switch roles, they may not be satisfied with the other role. I don't particularly like driving my car, does this mean I never drive it? Just because someone acts in a submissive/dominant manner because they need to, doesn't mean they enjoy it. Claiming submissive or dominant is just stating their default personality or preferred relationship state.

Honsoku

< Message edited by Honsoku -- 1/8/2008 3:09:03 PM >

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 53

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 2:36:12 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

I am very submissive to the IRS.......

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Honsoku)

Post #: 54

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 2:36:38 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Define "perfectly normal"...

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
I am just myself and I am submissive. Eager to help, eager to smooth the path for everyone. I don't pick and choose nor do I bow and scrape. I do however try and reach out to everyone. I try to make things 'good or easier' for people if I have the ability, I'm happy to back down at the first sign of displeasure towards me from another because that is just me

What you have written here may be adding to the confusion. I do not consider what you have written above as being submissive. Those things do not equate to submission, they equate to being a people pleaser to me. I see that as you doing your will which is to please others, help them, make their life easier. It is an admirable trait, but not what I consider submission.

Several years ago, I was a people pleaser in an unhealthy way. I would do for others at the detriment to my own well-being. I no longer do that; I have learned to balance that trait with maintaining my own well-being.

Submission to me is following the will of someone else. It is authority exchange; one person has the authority within the interaction and the other does not. When I say that I am submissive, I mean that I am more likely to follow someone else's will during an interaction rather than my own. When I say that my Lord is dominant, I mean that he is more likely to follow his own will rather than someone else's.

I am in a M/s relationship with him and by that we mean, that he has complete authority within my life and he exercises it at his discression. There is no other person in my life whose authority supercedes his. In many interactions with others, I do submit to their will and my motivation for that is because it is my Lord's will that I do so (i.e. officers of the law). In many other interactions with people, I do not submit to their will because it is his will that I do not (i.e. employees). Some people whether I submit to their will or not will depend on the situation, circumstance and what my Lord wants at that time. The person that is motivating my submission is my Lord and not anyone else.

In many situations, though I would rather follow someone else's lead, I end up being the leader. I am good at it, but it doesn't fulfill me. I do not see a problem or a disconnect between being a good leader, but being fulfilled by submitting to someone else's authority. I do not see a disconnect between being assertive and being fulfilled by following someone else's will. In many ways, I get at little of the best from both sides. I get to do the things that I am good at and I also have an intimate relationship that is structured in a way to provide me deep fulfillment and joy.

For me, it is selective submission to another person's will, but the person who selects whether I submit or not isn't me; it is my Lord. However, if you read that sentence using your understanding of submission, you will not know what I mean by it. In order to understand what a person means by submitting to only one person you have to know what their perspective of submission is and look at it from their point of view.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 55

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 3:02:06 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
this slave has always been curious as to why those that switch between submission and dominance don't embrace the label of switch instead of submissive.

For myself, I do not label myself as switch in regards to submission or dominance because I have no desire (at this point) to have an intimate relationship with another person where I have the authority within the relationship. When speaking about the totality of my life, I don't think of myself in terms of submission or dominance so the term switch has little meaning. When speaking of how I prefer my intimate relationships to be structured, the term submissive definitely applies, but the term dominant does not.

Whether I end up labeling myself as switch in terms of wanting to top as well as bottom, only time will tell. I have the desire to explore that aspect of BDSM and maybe one day my Lord will allow it.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 56

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 3:05:45 PM

Honsoku

Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am very submissive to the IRS.......

A switch! A switch! she's a switch!

(Reference: Monty Python and the Holy Grail; the weighing of the "witch" against the goose)

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 57

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 3:07:17 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
Dominant personalities.For myself I am submissive to just about everyone, I always have been. Hearing people say that they are only submissive to the people they select confuses the heck out of me. Why do submissives claim selective submission and dominants not? I'm curious and in need of coffee.

Well, i have always been submissive to the men i have had intimate relationships with and no one else. Being submissive is how i relate within my intimate relationships and nowhere else. There's no reason and no benefit, for me, to be submissive to anyone else. i confess that i don't get why anyone would be submissive to 'just about everyone.' But, that's okay. i don't need to understand it because i know that everyone is different.

As far as the Dominant men i have had relationships with, for the most part, they have all been men who didn't take any crap from anyone but, they also didn't go around trying to dominate everyone. Two of them had jobs that required them to be dominant over their subordinates but, only within the established constraints of the law and 'the company.' In the case of my ex-husband, he had been an Army Drill Sergeant and, after he left that job and became a First Sergeant and then a Sergeant Major, he was always known as a "Mean Son of a Bitch" but, only to the people who he was in charge of, not with everyone. With me, he wasn't mean at all, just kinky and Dominant.

Like John (Rover) said, exerting your dominance over just anyone can get you slugged or arrested. So, being 'selectively dominant' is probably a good idea, in my opinion.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 58

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 3:31:58 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am very submissive to the IRS.......

A switch! A switch! she's a switch!

(Reference: Monty Python and the Holy Grail; the weighing of the "witch" against the goose)

Oui, and a witch and a bitch...........so I have heard in the past

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Honsoku)

Post #: 59

RE: Selective Submission vs Selective Domination - 1/8/2008 3:50:38 PM

hopelessfool

Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Heres my question to cami and beth:
Say you are owned, or are working towards an ownership with Dom A, and you have a party where there are other Dom's around. Say Dom A tells you to go get him a particular item in another room and Dom B a Dom that happens to be at the party tells you to get him a drink and both are demanding to be the first one done. Obviously, in most cases, you are going to choose Dom A, because he is someone you are either in a relationship with or aspiring to be in a relationship with. That makes you selectively submissive, does it not? When I am owned and can follow the orders of One man at a time. He who ever he might be will be the first orders I follow no matter what. I give my heart soul body and trust to him. He comes first, even if he orders me to follow the orders of a another person, that person isn't in control of me and I'm not submitting to them, I'm submitting to my owner. So I think in the case of ownership we are all selectively submissive to the one that owns us, because he has the say on what it is we do and what it is we don't.

-La Kitten

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 60

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