RE: Contracts

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laurell3 -> RE: Contracts (1/10/2008 8:32:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Stop espousing legal advice, you're not good at it. Wouldn't that constitute putting in your two cents when you didn't know what you were talking about? (quoting you of course). I will quote Evelyn Beatrice Hall - I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. That goes for yourself and for taken. So far I have kept my mouth firmly shut, however when it impacts MY reading pleasure and what I having to shift though I am gonna rant - I am getting pretty tired of trying to read threads at the moment and coming across shitty remarks posted to taken. It's pretty insulting to the people who have bothered to answer the threads in a open manner and share their thoughts when I have to trawl through the crap of people who are ganging up. It's getting really childish. There is truth in what she said even if you and some others decide to throw that aside. It's a waste of mine and other people time who come to read the threads and get feedback and people thoughts watching people try and one up her constantly. I will probably be told I am wrong, don;t read, blahblahblah - so don't bother, heard it all before. But hey, we (generic)might not always be right, we(generic)might not like what people say but tough and we(generic) get to say its shit hey. But seriously - witch hunts just make me: yawn the.dark. Quoting the insults she made to others in threads that were removed and pointing out (as others have) that she is incorrect about spousal support isn't exactly insulting her nor are the forums real life or personal. I can understand your sympathy for her, however, chasing people to the mailbox to flame them and fling insults to avoid being modded is not exactly helping her here. I'm acutely aware of the law on spousal support. It is in fact a requirement where there is disparity of income in the majority of states and it has nothing to do with taken personally, tossing out legal advice when you have no knowlege is something I often speak about on these forums. By the way dark while I appreciate and respect your opinion on these forums, flaming for what you perceive to be flaming is also still in fact flaming as well, however, you are correct we (generic) can say what we chose within limits which includes BOTH you and I.

takenbyjohnr07 -> RE: Contracts (1/10/2008 8:44:08 PM)
i was not working when i divorced, for a disability i had back then.. i was not given spousal support. i was given child support. My ex husband could not afford spousal support so none was rewarded. So if it was law. wouldn't i have it? And, if it is enforced wouldn't he in jail for not paying it? With 700 cases you should be able to answer this one. Thanks.

laurell3 -> RE: Contracts (1/10/2008 8:45:46 PM)
If he couldn't afford it, disparity in income isn't there. Reread what I wrote instead of carrying on this silly grudge. By the way you said this "Spousal support is not a requirement by lawThe law doesn't care if you support your ex wife or not" which is not true in many places, which is precisely what I said.

takenbyjohnr07 -> RE: Contracts (1/10/2008 8:52:57 PM)
uh- thanks but no thanks. For you see in child support the judge doesn't care if you have the money or not. They may lower it here, but in Florida you either find it or you go to jail. So not being able to afford spousal support wouldn't fly here if it was the law or required which it isn't. It is awarded and not a right here. Each judge handles each case on an individual basis.

laurell3 -> RE: Contracts (1/10/2008 9:02:08 PM)
Actually child support is also based on income. Child support can ALSO be based upon disparity in income. In fact the calculations take into account who has custody, provides care, what their incomes are, what their incomes are relative to each other and determines a figure. You are correct however in that there is a minimum child support figure in most places for even those without income or on only benefits. Disparity in income means your income versus his, if he has low income, there is not great disparity and spousal support is not warranted (again what I said above). Where there is disparity, it is required and failure to pay spousal support can carry many of the same penalties as failure to pay child support including incarceration. Incarceration sure suggests "required" to me. In many places child support can be modified for decrease in income, here it is much harder to modify spousal support for the same reason, that also sounds like "required" to me.

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Contracts (1/10/2008 10:29:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Disparity in income means your income versus his, if he has low income, there is not great disparity and spousal support is not warranted (again what I said above). Are you really trying to logically argue with that child-woman? Even I, a great lover of pointless debates, recognize that trying to teach takenbyjohnr07 anything in these fora by using logic is about as effective as trying to start your car by banging your head on a brick wall. It just isn't going to happen... If you have some other motive, then have at it, but otherwise, don't waste your keystrokes... Taggard

AquaticSub -> RE: Contracts (1/10/2008 10:34:59 PM)
Yeah, but someone else might learn something.

RCdc -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 12:06:45 AM)
The law in the US does NOT place alimony as a god given right - that is what was suggested - it is NOT manditory. And when it is given, it is classed as income. I don't see where anyone said it is NEVER given the exact statement was "Spousal support is not a requirement by law". Laurell I enjoy your posts too, is all good because we are just disagreeing on this - but if what I did was flame a flame, so the fuck what? Did I say I never flame? Nope. I quite openly admited that I was fucked off and ranting because my and others reading 'pleasure' is being lessened because there are some people here, and I know you understand that you are involved (I'm not a person to simple 'insinuate' - I call a spade a spade) because there are people posting and making genuine posts in response to questions asked and they are lost because of some stupid posts all arguing over who is 'right' and who isn't - who is nice and who is not. So people you respect and like and enjoy to read are getting absolutely no respect just because you want to make a 'point'. Do not be mistaken, I don't have 'sympathy' for the OP, I have sympathy for my own reading pleasure and my own eyes and time wasted sifting through this crap. And frankly, it's getting BORING. I don't come here to see crap, but learn something. I guess I am learning something hey - like whom I can trust my private emails with and who takes the high road too. The only other thing I am learning here is that there are people who like nothing more than to post about personal emails on a message board so as to place another persons intergrity into question. I don't really give a shite WHAT people write in a private email. Do you think it's going to effect the way I, and most other people with a brain, think about someone? No - It called BLACKLISTING. And I have seen people post on posts time after time about how 'bad' and 'stupid' blacklisting is - and now I am seeing those same people attempting to do it? Not good sport hey. But a great way of getting around TOS. Y'all want to back bite and discuss peoples emails? Do it in your groups offline here and pay a bit of respect to people posting and answering on a forum which is a discussion forum on BDSM not an outting forum for personal vendettas. Now if that is considered a flame - I don't really give a damn. I am not against flaming. Didn't say in this post that I was. I am against witch hunts and hatin' just for hatin's sake. And you are mistaken - you nor I can say what we want here - we can say what we want within the confines of TOS. the.dark. (.editcozmyspellingsucks.)

sirguym -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 2:06:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist If one thinks they can put everything in a relationship down on a piece of paper-they are sadly deluded. Yes, and that is exactly what everyone has said a contract is used for. I know that once I write a contract, I don't have to do anything, not even be there, for the relationship to work, because it is all down on that piece of paper. Oh wonderful magical paper... Taggard I don't think anybody would suggest that either of those two assertions above are valid; I certainly never would. But as many have said, negotiating a written agreement, whatever you call it, can help in the early stages, particularly when one party's experience is markedly different to the other's, plus it gives a benchmark against 'selective memory'. Any relationship needs work on boths sides to remain alive. My Indentures are only one of many measures that help with that, and probably one of the most minor. I find it helps both me and the girl(s) concerned; particularly when, as I do, I have more than one relationship existing at the same time. I am happy to accept that such things may do nothing for you; and/or that you have not yet seen a reason for them. Maybe you may never have across circumstances where the absence of a contract has exacerbated problems, precisely because the two parties' memmory of a verbal agreement came, over time, to be diametrically opposed. But I have seen that in a D/s relationship, (and in my professional careers too), and so do the paperwork, because it helps. Of course, if it gets to arguing fine print, it's too late: so one provision in my Indenture says to re-read it at least once a week. I refresh my memory of it regularly too, just in case I forget the special clauses negotiated with them in particular. But you two have just set up a false argument that nobody advanced, and then knocked it down again. How does that help?

takenbyjohnr07 -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 5:44:51 AM)
Some people feel that as long as they think something is funny. then everyone else will Sometimes it works, sometomes it doesn't. Some people use what they call humor in every post or thread that they make, because they really have nothing important to say and nothing relevant to add to anything, but they want to belong and they want attention. Luckily only a few on these boards to that. And then there are some who just want to lighten the mood of everyone and are trying to help or make their day a little lighter. Then there are people who never get the concept that there is a time and place for everything.

KatyLied -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 5:58:17 AM)
quote: chasing people to the mailbox to flame them and fling insults to avoid being modded is not exactly helping her here. Ah pm talk is the mostest fun! [:D]

MistressOfGa -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 6:19:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark camille, I don't believe taken wasn't refering to Omega - people often forget that the post, posted to, isn't always the one refered to. As for the point of alimony - it isn't a 'right' neither in the states nor the US. That's a bit of a myth that puts many people in deep shit when they divorce. If one partner has a large income or assets, the court may award some form of recompence, but it isn't a right and shouldn;t be expected. Alimony is NOT a requirement by law in many states or in the UK. So I am backing taken on this one. the.dark. Actually many states don't even call it "Spousal Support" anymore. It is called a Maintence Fee. Usually given to the spouse who has worked the least amount of time during the marriage. If I had been married since I was 19 years old and my husband had insisted that I stay home and raise our children til they were 18 and then he divorced me 20 years later, the court may indeed order him to pay a maintence fee til I can get on my own two feet. Or another case would be, if the wife/husband is physically/mentally ill and has not worked due to that reason, the courts may order the working spouse to pay a Maintence Fee until: 1. The ill spouse is better and able to work. 2. The ill spouse remarries. Just throwing my two cents in <s>

MistressOfGa -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 6:34:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Stop espousing legal advice, you're not good at it. Wouldn't that constitute putting in your two cents when you didn't know what you were talking about? (quoting you of course). I will quote Evelyn Beatrice Hall - I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. That goes for yourself and for taken. So far I have kept my mouth firmly shut, however when it impacts MY reading pleasure and what I having to shift though I am gonna rant - I am getting pretty tired of trying to read threads at the moment and coming across shitty remarks posted to taken. It's pretty insulting to the people who have bothered to answer the threads in a open manner and share their thoughts when I have to trawl through the crap of people who are ganging up. It's getting really childish. There is truth in what she said even if you and some others decide to throw that aside. It's a waste of mine and other people time who come to read the threads and get feedback and people thoughts watching people try and one up her constantly. I will probably be told I am wrong, don;t read, blahblahblah - so don't bother, heard it all before. But hey, we (generic)might not always be right, we(generic)might not like what people say but tough and we(generic) get to say its shit hey. But seriously - witch hunts just make me: yawn the.dark. Gawd..Here Here! I agree with this 100%. There is hardly a thread on CM boards that takenbyjohnr has posted that the same people come and try to cut her down or "one-up" her. I have had to sift through the many pages of thinly veiled insults to get to some really good reading material. I am glad that I waded through them, because I have learned a thing or two along the way. As one poster said "Can't we all just get along?" I say to them, can't y'all just back off and take a break from the "Let's get takenbyjohnr to leave this forum" campaign? Not all of us take everything she says as the be all end all of truths, so some of us do not need to read that her way is not the only way, we know this. We can read, we are not stupid. If she makes a mistake or forgets to say "IMO" or "I could be wrong" or asks a question instead of stating it as fact, big deal! Sheesh, not all of us need to be reminded that it is her opinion only. WE know. Oh and by the way, this is just MY OPINION ONLY. And like the.dark, I do not need to be reminded that I can click on ignore or that I can by-pass all the insults. If there were just a few, I would do just that, but it seems there are pages and pages of them. Hard to find the meat when there is so much gravy put on top of it.

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 6:49:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirguym But you two have just set up a false argument that nobody advanced, and then knocked it down again. How does that help? Uhh...that was kind of my point. I use a literary method known as sarcasm to respond to one outrageous straw man with and even more outrageous straw man. It is a common debating technique and one of the most effective in dealing with the logical fallacy that is the straw man. Perhaps I needed to be a bit more sarcastic, or surround my thoughts in <sarcasm> tags. I figured, given my previous comments on this very thread, and my penchant for sarcastic remarks, everyone would understand my comment for what it was. Taggard

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 6:55:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa I say to them, can't y'all just back off and take a break from the "Let's get takenbyjohnr to leave this forum" campaign? I am not trying to get her to leave, but when someone with such and obvious lack of expereince combined with what seems to be a below average intellect begins to dominate discussion on a message board I frequent, I feel it is well within my rights to take a stand and have my say. Her presence increases the noise-to-signal ratio and these fora would be better without her, but I am doing nothing to try to get her to leave. It is a free fora, and everyone is welcome to post. Taggard

KatyLied -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 7:00:21 AM)
And everyone should be aware that there is one sort of behavior on the message board and a completely different behavior exhibited in pm's that are flying around. So what you are seeing is not the entire story, plenty of noise going on.

OmegaG -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 7:06:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Disparity in income means your income versus his, if he has low income, there is not great disparity and spousal support is not warranted (again what I said above). Are you really trying to logically argue with that child-woman? Even I, a great lover of pointless debates, recognize that trying to teach takenbyjohnr07 anything in these fora by using logic is about as effective as trying to start your car by banging your head on a brick wall. It just isn't going to happen... If you have some other motive, then have at it, but otherwise, don't waste your keystrokes... Taggard It's interesting that you said this because I've always gotten the feeling that my 18 year old daughter and taken could be one in the same person. The impression I've gotten from taken is that she's a nice person but she's not yet gotten to a point in her life where she is comfortable with paradigms outside of her own. Teens and young adults often display this arrogence in thier thought process as they've not come to fully accept that they are OK and people who disagree with them aren't a threat to their self esteem and are equally OK.

MistressOfGa -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 7:07:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa I say to them, can't y'all just back off and take a break from the "Let's get takenbyjohnr to leave this forum" campaign? I am not trying to get her to leave, but when someone with such and obvious lack of expereince combined with what seems to be a below average intellect begins to dominate discussion on a message board I frequent, I feel it is well within my rights to take a stand and have my say. Her presence increases the noise-to-signal ratio and these fora would be better without her, but I am doing nothing to try to get her to leave. It is a free fora, and everyone is welcome to post. Taggard I understand Taggard and Katy, I am of course oblivious to the "behind the scenes" transactions that are taking place, I based what I said only on what I am seeing on the forum. Taggard, would it not be better to try and help her understand and perhaps educate her, as her questions although frequent have been very good ones.(?) I don't want to hi-jack this wonderful thread, so please excuse my outburst. It is frustrating to say the least.

Jeffff -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 7:08:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa I say to them, can't y'all just back off and take a break from the "Let's get takenbyjohnr to leave this forum" campaign? I am not trying to get her to leave, but when someone with such and obvious lack of expereince combined with what seems to be a below average intellect begins to dominate discussion on a message board I frequent, I feel it is well within my rights to take a stand and have my say. Her presence increases the noise-to-signal ratio and these fora would be better without her, but I am doing nothing to try to get her to leave. It is a free fora, and everyone is welcome to post. Taggard carefull..............or someone may take a.......CONTRACT out on you...[8D] Cosa Nostra

OmegaG -> RE: Contracts (1/11/2008 7:08:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa I say to them, can't y'all just back off and take a break from the "Let's get takenbyjohnr to leave this forum" campaign? I am not trying to get her to leave, but when someone with such and obvious lack of expereince combined with what seems to be a below average intellect begins to dominate discussion on a message board I frequent, I feel it is well within my rights to take a stand and have my say. Her presence increases the noise-to-signal ratio and these fora would be better without her, but I am doing nothing to try to get her to leave. It is a free fora, and everyone is welcome to post. Taggard I don't want her to leave, I think the roots of her questions and responses are interesting. I'd love for her to learn a more neurtal style of expressing her views though.

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