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Shadowkeeper -> RE: Submission. East Vs West (1/9/2008 7:33:10 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hisannabelle
greetings shadowkeeper,
i didn't "grow into" anything. i grew as a person. there is a difference. we are always growing as people. i was a perfectly good slave when we got together and i'm a perfectly good slave now, i'm just different, because i've been through different things in the last two years than i had in the 18 before that. it isn't about "growing into" anything or becoming a better anything or anything along those lines.
you're right, i haven't lived in the middle east - however, i do have extensive ties to people who have lived in the middle east, i've talked to middle eastern women, i know what it's like to be a western submissive woman, i've studied islam from the point of view of both history and academia to some extent and plan to study more, and have studied other eastern cultures in which women might be seen as "more submissive" far more extensively as well. actually, before i realized you were only talking about the middle east, i was thinking in my original post of the archetype of the submissive indian woman, because from my own experience in southeast asian studies and women's studies and talking to indian women and reading about indian women, indian feminism, and western women who study and live in india, i would never draw the conclusion that indian women are "naturally" or "culturally" submissive. i don't see how that is any more true for middle eastern women. as a woman, i don't see how you can even find it "generally" true for all women (particularly since, if we're discussing qualifications, where did you get your qualification to speak for women?).
edited to add: i don't get the "direct/indirect guidance" issue or how that relates to your earlier argument that submission is determined by, as someone else so eloquently mentioned, reductionist cultural and gender categories. i haven't seen any reasoning in your posts that actually points to the idea that men and women "need different guidance," and your earlier posts sounded a lot like you think women need men's guidance, not that it's a two way street. furthermore, where do intersexed and non-heterosexual people fit in?
respectfully,
annabelle.
My post was directed towards my opinion on women in two specific different cultures. Yes I did not mention anything about the effect of the woman on the man. Why would I? This post was not intended for that. By no means does that mean I do not believe there is a two way, although different, street. You can say one is a street and the other is an underground tunnel.
Like I mentioned before, that is a whole topic on its own. And my thoughts exclude, and I actually said that already in one of my replies, Lesbians, gays, asexual and any other sexual minority.
I am not speaking FOR women. I am speaking ABOUT women, or rather my opinion of women in two regions of the world. I am by no means a representative. I am an explorer and observer.
You may have been a good slave before meeting your current Master and you may be still a good slave after being his. My question is, has his ownership of you, helped you become better? Or grow further? Both to meet your and his needs. Better perhaps is not the right word to use.
I shall rephrase the question. Can you deny that his ownership of you has made you more in tune with yourself? And your slavery or choice of submission? Vs when he did not own you?
Of course he is not the only influence. But he must have played and is still playing a big if not a main role in influencing your development.
Then again polyamorous relationships sometimes have a bit of a different dynamic than monogamous ones. So the size of your Masters influence may not be as big as I think.
Once again this last part is whole topic on its own.
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