RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (Full Version)

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Gwynvyd -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/11/2008 7:14:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl
 
In my opinion, if one takes on the life of another as property, they should take on a very aggressive role in the protection of said property.
 
Thoughts?
 
jen


I absolutely agree!  It's not just the big stuff either. In our relationship, there's a lot of little things he does to protect me as well. For example, when we walk the dog together, I have a standing rule to walk so that he's always nearest the street. He has me go first onto escalators so he can catch me if I fall. He sits with his back to the wall when we go out so he can be the first to see if there is some danger coming our way, takes my arm when we have to cross the street (very important when it's so icy in these parts!)

Additionally, he protects not just my physical health, but my mental and emotional health as well and I am required to do what is within my ability to keep his property safe as well (stay focused while I'm cooking so I don't burn myself, take my meds as required, watch where I'm walking so I don't trip, etc.)

Eh, it gives me the warm fuzzies. What can I say? ::grins::

Celeste


To me these are all the things that just make sense that you do for the other person in a relationship. They used to be caled Gentlemanly. I am Poly.. but my main realtionship is with a fellow female, and I do these things for her because I care for her, love her, and watch out for her welfare.
I always sit facing the exits to see any danger. I am always aware of our surroundings, and make her walk away from the traffic. Being that she is submissive to me, I have that protective nature naturaly. It is just a no brainer.

She is a big strong girl.. but I love her, and want her to be taken care of.

Gwyn




WhipLash803 -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 11:29:26 AM)

Wow...two for two today, I agree with Rover!!
No matter how intense, regimented or the extent of Power Exchanged...at the very end of the day we are each responsible for our own welfare. If a sub is constantly being "attacked" online...the simple solution (with your Dom's permission) is inform the powers that be at the particular hosting website and make a complaint...in the mean time get off the computer. I can do a lot of things to Lead, Guide, Role-model and yes Protect my sub...but as Rover Say's "I can't be a Forcefield of Protection" to imply otherwise creates unrealistic expectations for the sub and impossible responsibilities for the Dom. If all you do is run around putting out every fire that your sub creates...how will they ever learn from their mistakes. If your not careful, you'll end up with a sub, with both the behavior and competence of a 10 yrs old.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover



I believe a Dominant (or submissive/slave) is responsible for whatever has been agreed upon.  However, I cannot imagine how a Dominant can become responsible, making a submissive/slave irresponsible.  In other words, they both have to be responsible adults, and responsible to their relationship, in order for it to work.
 
There is limited "protection" that anyone can offer in terms of blackmail.  Those that scoff at the use of safewords should cough up a hairball over the issue of a Dominant offering complete protection like some kind of force shield. 
 
John




WhipLash803 -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 11:41:42 AM)

Well Done!!! Here is a sub with similar problems to the original poster. Each party filled their duties responsibly, protected thenselves, protected/supported each other and the problem was resolved. By the Dom letting his sub handle her own problem like this, instead of going and yelling or beating someone up. He has helped her learn a lesson that she can apply in other circumstances and probably in the end has a improved sense of self- esteem and ability. Call me crazy but this sounds like a very healthy dynamic to me!!

Whiplash
quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

i very recently had to go before a judge to aquire a restraining order.
ive been harassed for quite some time by a person with a severe mental illness.
my guy could not fill out the paper work for me, call the phone company to change my number,
or make the person leave me alone.
but he could offer advise, and go to court with me and hold my hand. in fact if i remember correctly,
his touch never left me even while i was speaking to the judge.
his responsibility to me was to offer moral support and yes, to be a sounding board to me
when i was a nervous wreck and needed someone to hear me.
he went above and beyond for me, none of it was his business in the first place.
me- im responsible for four people on earth, to make sure they are healthy and safe,
have what they need and want, and are loved.
there can be different definitions of responsibility




Lordandmaster -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 11:46:02 AM)

I agree.  Great post, domahpet.




MadRabbit -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 12:10:38 PM)

I agree with Rover, but people can have whatever metaphysical reasoning they want to their relationship.

That's all I have the energy to contribute. I'm still burned from the last ten page debate I got into argueing the viewpoint's expressed by Rover as to why the notion of total and complete responsibility isn't a realistic concept.

This place is wearing me down.





ownedgirlie -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 12:24:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

That's all I have the energy to contribute. I'm still burned from the last ten page debate I got into argueing the viewpoint's expressed by Rover as to why the notion of total and complete responsibility isn't a realistic concept.



Wow, I missed that somehow, I think.

Complete protection, I believe, is only possible if you put the slave in bubble wrap with an oxygen mask in a fire resistant home....you get the idea.  Life happens.  Shit happens.  And if the owner does not equip the property with the means, knowledge and tools to protect his/herself, then the owner is not really protecting the property at all.  I don't care what kind of car or gate or suit or armor has been purchased for safety purposes.  Now, if some owner wants to don himself in a cape and ride his white steed saying he is completely and absolutely protective of property, more power to him.  I contend there is a difference between reasonable protection and absolute, complete protection, but if others want to disagree, that's their option.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 1:56:19 PM)

quote:

You have the last word, Merc.  You can either address the issue sincerely and directly, or shirk and duck it.  Your response will be the final chapter in our latest (but surely not last) debate (of course, I cannot be responsible for what others may post).

John,
The responsibility I have includes deferring to anyone better qualified. I see that as my unqualified responsibly you don't. I didn't built the house, car, stove, bed, bathroom. I didn't make the clothes or plant the cotton or sheer the sheep to get the materials of which they are comprised. I dropped out of Med school, had no interest in becoming a chiropractor, or podiatrist; and always belief myself better suited to causing pain as opposed to alleviating it. Yet - I still feel responsible for beth's access to any and all of those things and more.

You began by replacing responsibly with a "guarantee". You backed away from that. I never make a guarantee that taking this responsibility servers to protect her. I know better, as I said, I'm also responsible for the consequences. My guarantee is that I'll do everything in my power to meet my definition of total complete unqualified responsibility. In many regards I view it as selfish; however that's my life. I love it. I'm enjoying the hell out of it. I enjoy being responsible as effectively as I know how.  

I defer to your expertise, semantic or otherwise. I'll continue to live my life - If it's a "shirk" its a very comfortable one. I don't know why you found the need to attack my principles of my life - but if you gained from it, I'm happy for you. I live, we live, as we represent. You don't like it, or disagree - fine. Don't see it as principled - again fine.

I need no last word permission. There is no insight I wouldn't be happy to provide - but would it really matter to you? I seek no agreement. You have many, you said so yourself  - congrats! Feel free to speak your mind as you will, live as you will.




kc692 -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 2:02:01 PM)

**looks in***...nm




BytorOH -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/12/2008 2:03:47 PM)

Could not agree more.  Maybe I am just a throwback to an earlier era.  Could that be why there is so much interest in reneaissance faires here on CM?




MistressOfGa -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 2:33:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692

**looks in***...nm

<Catches KC walking out> Well? Any better? <Sees the look on her face> Ok, never mind. Want to go have a cup of nog?




Justme696 -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 3:49:35 AM)

IS this really a lifestyle question? Wouldn't you help any one that is close to your heart?




Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 5:08:39 AM)

Well, regardless of what anybody else thinks or does, here's my thing about this.

1. I will give or provide moral support and sounding board.
2. I will give out advice or actually will tell her how to deal with it.
3. If Problem still contines, tell the person to basically leave it alone or knock it off.
4. Get the Law involved.
5. If the law is aware of the problem, dude still is not leaving it alone.  Let's just say, the last thing he wants to do is show up in the doorstep, or physically engage her. 

Basically, if anything physical happens.  This is after the law is become involved.  Police have warned the dude, restraining orders issued and whatnot.  Dude shows up, I believe in doing what is required to protect ones self and property.  I'm fully prepared to face whatever legal drama that comes of it, with the paper work trail that has already been established.  Stalker type Assholes tend to have some more of bad legal history for this crap anyways.   I myself don't have any criminal record.   So, contacting the police and going through the legal channels is a good thing to do.

Now from my past dealings, I have found that local police, county law enforcement are not as effective as "state police" are.  At least anywhere I've lived.  Basically, ask other people around the community which one is more effective and better at their job.  Plus State Police have a wider juristriction to go GET 'em or deal with the problem.  

Generally, simply not feeding into the stalkers attempt work well.  Assholes like this try eveything in the book to get attention.  Basically suck somebody back into talking to them.  Even if it's for an argument.   When they can get you to engage in a converation of some form, it's only giving them positive reinforcement to thier bad behavior.   Basically, just tell them it's over to not have anymore contact, else the authorities will become involved.   Then if they keep it up, do the follow through with your words.   If you make threats against a stalker and don't take action, they will call your bluff.   They have to get it in their head, it's a bad idea to keep things up.   Most sane stalkers will back off.   Those insane ones, have to ask themselves how far are they willing to go at personal risk and exspense.

I generally will get calm and confront people like this, then keep it very short with them.  Short one or two word replies.   Not engaging a conversation.  A simple "I don't want to talk with you" or "I don't want to talk about it".  Works good, hang up the phone or walk away from them.

It's important to keep of log of events and what's going on too.  Do it so you have the exact dates and times and what happened.   It's a little difficult to reconstruct and present this history a month or weeks later.   Plus, let other people know that you are being stalked.

In one of my last relationships, where she was being stalked, actually kept a bag of stuff.  Evidence.  i.e. recorded phone messages, letters, cards and crazy shit.  Including a Bible that had been stabbed with blood on it.   Oh yeah, I've been involved in the middle of crazy shit like this before.  The Dude went so far to actually cut himself to get attention.  This was when all else was failing.   Should have heard some of his lovely phone call messages too.. ranging from threats, to declarations of love, to threats to doing himself in.  Guilt trip city, a mind fuck within a mind fuck is what he was.

The law managed to straighten him out, along with the phone number being changed, email accounts being dumped, IM accounts being dropped.  Basically, cut off the communication lines.   Press charges, if they push too hard.   If you are a DOM, think about how far you are willing to go in protecting your sub/slave from this shit.   This will not be easy for either sub/slave and Dom/Master a like...

It's important that the sub/slave does not feed into the assholes bullshit, and communication attempts nor threats.  Giving into being sucked into a conversation or argument or guilt trip is the last thing to do.  No matter what. 





  




NorthernGent -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 5:29:01 AM)

Ultimately, yes.

This begs the question though, what constitutes being responsible? Treating a person like a child for some, but providing guidance where necessary for others. Personally, I think it is responsible to allow people the room to breathe.

Edited to add:

To illustrate using the blackmail example given:

Is it really responsible to micro-manage a person's life? "A wonderful sounding board" sounds about right to me; in other words, "here are your options, this is my recommendation on the grounds of x, y, z". Provide the information, and essentially empower them to make their own decisions. How do you learn a lesson for the next issue which comes along, in the scenario where your partner is taking on board your problems?




venusinblu -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 5:55:34 AM)

i think that a sub should be able to stand on her own two feet, but i feel that one's Master should bear some responsibility for the protection of his sub's emotional welfare.  Part of many subs submission is that handing over of everything emotional to her Dom. i certainly need that form of protection from my Master far more than his ability to rush in and beat up bad guys for me.  Emotional neglect or a touch of Dom Drop, without any explanation, is the worst crime my Master can commit, in my eyes.  




Asherdelampyr -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 6:00:20 AM)

Very good point Venus. 




SirEbonyPhoenix -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 6:05:11 AM)

If a "Dom" is doing what you described, then it is in my humble opinion that he nor she is much of a Dominant. A true Dominant would NEVER blackmail a submissive/slave into anything because the idea of a D/s relationship is based on trust, honesty and compassion. In closing and to answer your question, I'd say that a Dominant is responsible for the welfare of their sub/slave, but not in an aggressive aspect, but assertive.




Justme696 -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 6:08:41 AM)

I guess an important part of it all is also....is he/she your partner or just soem one visiting you for sessions.




SensualNSadistic -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 6:27:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

I am asking this question after reading Prinsexx's post on blackmail. She is being blackmailed and harassed to the point of it being criminal, by a man claiming to be a Dom.
I asked her what her Master is doing to protect her and she responded, basically, that he has been a wonderful sounding board.
 
In my opinion, if one takes on the life of another as property, they should take on a very aggressive role in the protection of said property.
 
Thoughts?
 
jen


If I were her owner, I would say, lets go, and take her to the police or sheriffs office, and help her fill out the complaint forms and press charges. Yes, I believe in protecting my property with my life ( if it came down to that ) in every way I possibly can.




SensualNSadistic -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/13/2008 6:36:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SensualNSadistic

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

I am asking this question after reading Prinsexx's post on blackmail. She is being blackmailed and harassed to the point of it being criminal, by a man claiming to be a Dom.
I asked her what her Master is doing to protect her and she responded, basically, that he has been a wonderful sounding board.
 
In my opinion, if one takes on the life of another as property, they should take on a very aggressive role in the protection of said property.
 
Thoughts?
 
jen


If I were her owner, I would say, lets go, and take her to the police or sheriffs office, and help her fill out the complaint forms and press charges. Yes, I believe in protecting my property with my life ( if it came down to that ) in every way I possibly can.


However, I have to agree with other posts, online one should be able to protect themselves,  even if it means to stay off the net for a time and make all new profiles without pictures. I am always there for moral support, and any other support my property might need to make it through a crisis of any kind.




domglyn -> RE: Are Masters Responsible for the Welfare of Their Property? (1/14/2008 6:37:06 AM)

to put it very simple ..YES .. WOULD YOU LET SOMEONE DAMAGE YOUR PROPERTY HELL NO. your car, your house your favorite bdsm toy....no you wouldn't.. just remember the look in our subbies eyes the depth of love and trust. hurt my girl means your hurting me which means i hope you have great firewalls and hospitalization plan.




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