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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/12/2008 11:59:15 PM

MistressOfGa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You know, I don't think anyone has ever asked me--at least not in the forums.

I like the avatar for a few reasons.

1. It shows two animals doing what they want to do without an iota of self-consciousness. Pretty much bullshit-free communication, and they really don't give a shit what anyone else thinks of what they're doing. I admire that. We humans, once we set aside all our baggage, strive to do what those elephants seem to be doing effortlessly.

2. I admire elephants because they work together and care for one another, and use intelligence to solve problems.

3. No one ever fucks with an elephant twice. You don't bother the elephants, and the elephants won't bother you, but if you fuck with one, you'll find out that you made a mistake.

Not to mention, if you place an elephant at your front door with it's tusk facing the door, you will always have good luck in that house.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 12:04:04 AM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You know, I don't think anyone has ever asked me--at least not in the forums.

I like the avatar for a few reasons.

1. It shows two animals doing what they want to do without an iota of self-consciousness. Pretty much bullshit-free communication, and they really don't give a shit what anyone else thinks of what they're doing. I admire that. We humans, once we set aside all our baggage, strive to do what those elephants seem to be doing effortlessly.

2. I admire elephants because they work together and care for one another, and use intelligence to solve problems.

3. No one ever fucks with an elephant twice. You don't bother the elephants, and the elephants won't bother you, but if you fuck with one, you'll find out that you made a mistake.

See how easy communication is.... smiles....
I want to hijack the thread and talk about elephants now cause they are creative and compassionate, but i won't ... *smiles.

To the OP - please please let us know what happens. You've brought up such a realistic problem that resonattes with many of us... I for one would like to hear what happens.

peace

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 2:47:33 AM

batshalom

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--Fast Reply

I'm big on hearing certain words and phrases and in fact placed a lot of value on the words even if the actions didn't match.

If you aren't going to speak with him about it (and sometimes it's best to let it drop), do his words match his actions? If they seem to, don't sweat the words.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 9:38:35 PM

Statepalace

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quote:

Are you sure you heard him correctly? If he's in the heat of the moment is there a possibility that you were enraptured a bit yourself?

Evility - absolutely, 100% certain that I heard Him correctly. I can replay those minutes with crystal clarity, inflection and facial expression included. Believe me, it burned itself into my brain pretty well. It wasn't the "L" word, it was my name, then my name again, then after I was looking directly into His face from about two feet away, the phrase(s) in question. Then my name again, then another phrase. Then once more.

Wishing there had been video ;)

< Message edited by Statepalace -- 1/13/2008 9:41:17 PM >

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 9:59:07 PM

Statepalace

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laurell - I did, in a very, very casual way, let Him know that I heard what was said. The last thing said, and (without the context of the first two phrases) the most neutral was "I could make you happy". In context, having a naked man staring intensely at you, saying the things that were said first - well at that point having Him say may name and then "I could make you happy" felt a tad less than neutral. Especially when it was such a 180 from the role playing we had been doing.

I couldn't just leave it hanging without at least casually acknowledging that I remembered He had said those things. We always discuss things afterward, starting with the next day and chatting back and forth generally for the better part of a week. I dropped Him off at the airport Tuesday at noon, and in an email to Him Tuesday night, before I asked my question here, I did my usual "This was great, this was a little intense but I liked it a lot, etc, etc". I ended with "There is no could. You do make me happy. Daily."

It was the most delicate way of saying that I heard Him, and of affirming that what was said was a good thing. Awkward or not, I had to do that because He's a human being that I care about.

I didn't know if I should directly and actively (the email response was kind of indirect and passive, I think) ask Him questions about it. That's why I asked on here. Still kind of uncertain about precisely what to do.

Do you think the response I gave was enough?

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 10:07:13 PM

SimplyMichael

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Do you want to be in a relationship where you can't just ask?

What I LOVE about the relationship BSB and I have created is we strive to be really really open with each other. She knows about the fucked up parts of my life and I hers. We don't fudge about things and we trust that each of us has good intentions toward the other and we don't surprise each other with crap that has festered.

Why not tell the guy "hey, what you said made me all mushy and I am happy we are working towards that" or whatever...

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 10:41:24 PM

Statepalace

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L&M - the only thing that makes me feel even the tiniest bit ok about not sharing this is the fact that a blind and deaf cocker spaniel could tell I'm in love with Him. I've made it as obvious as possible without either saying the word or having "I heart my Dom" tattooed on my ass. I do have every intention of talking to Him about how I feel; I'm just putting it off till May.

LA - you're right, I am avoiding the issue and insecure. I suppose some background info might help with this one. I've really appreciated the help everyone has given, and since I haven't posted an introduction this might help.

I am insecure. As of the spring of 2007 it had been nearly seven years since I dated. During that time I had been in an exclusive relationship with my ex-husband. After being separated for over a year, I finalized my divorce last year. When the ex and I first separated in spring of 2006, I made a decision to become the old woman with cats. No men, no dating, didn't want to ever do it again. I had the cats, all I needed to do was make it to old age.

A year later in the spring of 2007, and the year of no sex had weakened my resolve considerably. So, for the first time ever, I set out to have casual sex. The last thing I wanted was a relationship, and since I had never been intimate outside of my two long term "in love" relationships and one close, caring "friends with benefits" situation, this was a new thing.

Dating again was strange. Not only was it strange to be dating as a nearly 30 year old instead of a 21 year old, I hadn't done much of it when I was younger. Heck, I went on more first dates last year than I've ever had in all the years before that. Ever. I didn't attend high school (was home schooled after 7th grade due to moving in with my bio-father), and so didn't have that well of experience to draw on. College saw me becoming exclusive with the second person that I ever dated, so not a lot of background experience there either.

So, despite being really insecure about the whole subject, I start dating. I even have sex with a couple people, go me. For a while I really didn't know if I could, without it being "serious". Watching "Sex and the City" reruns helped get my courage up.

One night in May I get this urge to write out one of my sexual fantasies. Probably from being so frustrated with my sex life. I post it on Craigslist, just to see what would happen. Now, I've been "kink aware" since about 18, (growing up partly in New Orleans, as a child I though fetish outfits were just cool Mardi Gras clothing) but all of my "I want you to spank me" requests have always been met with a "Why??" from my partners. I figured now was the time to boldly go, well, wherever. If I'm having casual sex, why not make it the casual sex I really want to have? Part of it, too, was just my way of declaring my preferences to the world. "World, I'm kinky!" It was the totally anonymous world of Craigslist, but I figured it was a start.

I didn't expect much in the way of replies. Seriously didn't expect anything worthwhile. Of all the responses, one blew me away. We talked for a few days, then met. Mind blowing first experience with this stuff. I was thrilled, pleased with myself for having been so brave, and didn't expect it to be anything but a one night stand.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 11:14:01 PM

Statepalace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Do you want to be in a relationship where you can't just ask?

No, I don't. The thing is, I can, and will, ask. And He will tell me, honestly. I've been waiting a long time to ask that question. I have given myself a date to rip off the Band-aid. Until then, I am not asking by choice, as I am not ready to see what the answer will be just yet.

I told myself in the beginning that it was "Just sex with cool accessories". I repeated that to myself daily. I didn't want a relationship. He just never stopped being a fantastic human being, and has consistently been patient and kind.

I realized sometime in August that I liked Him. A lot. Unlike the other two times I've felt that "in love" feeling, I spent a good deal of effort trying to make it go away. I made mental lists of all the reasons we wouldn't work. I did my best to slow the descent.

October rolls around and I have to admit to myself that I'm not just "in love" in an infatuated sort of way that will go away soon, but that I care about Him because He is a good person. He loves His mother, is funny, never critical, and a host of other qualities I could spend pages listing.

The thing is, this was supposed to be a one night stand. I now find myself unexpectedly in love.

When I separated from the ex two years ago, I did so because I couldn't face turning 30 in a relationship where I cared about the other person and they didn't care about me. So here is the thing. When I talk to Him, if He says we are just good friends that have a casual play relationship, I'm going to have to ask for some changes to our relationship. Not an end to it, but changes to put it more firmly back into the casual realm.

There are things I do daily and weekly simply because He says do them, and while it brings me joy to do them it also keeps my heart open to loving Him. It doesn’t feel casual because He is not in my life on a casual basis. We talk so often, we share thoughts on so many different things that it does not feel casual to me.

If it is a casual relationship, then I will ask Him for His help in making it feel that way again. I will ask Him to limit our contact to very specific areas, and very specific themes. No sports, no work, nothing personal – nothing but this mutual hobby of ours. Hopefully this will help me readjust my thinking and allow me to appreciate what I have been blessed with, instead of only seeing what I wish I had.

I will have to ask that He take all of the rules back. While I want to submit to Him, doing so on a daily basis pushes this out of the realm of casual for me. I will need my clothing choices back, along with all of the other things that I do while He is not here. It is painful to have Him so often in my head if we are just friends that enjoy a physical attraction and a common interest in BDSM.

Because I know what MY action has to be if He says that it is simply casual for Him, I am giving myself that "5 more minutes" in this warm bed of relationship limbo. I just don't have the emotional capacity to be so overwhelmingly in love and continue to interact so heavily with Him if this is casual.

Casual I can do, but it will have to be light contact and strictly sex or D/s scenes while He is physically present. Long distance is hard enough as it is; knowing it was strictly casual on His end would make long distance too painful.

I am asking in May because all of the conversations in my head begin with "We've been seeing each other for a year now..."

< Message edited by Statepalace -- 1/13/2008 11:17:24 PM >

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/13/2008 11:50:26 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Statepalace

laurell - I did, in a very, very casual way, let Him know that I heard what was said. The last thing said, and (without the context of the first two phrases) the most neutral was "I could make you happy". In context, having a naked man staring intensely at you, saying the things that were said first - well at that point having Him say may name and then "I could make you happy" felt a tad less than neutral. Especially when it was such a 180 from the role playing we had been doing.

I couldn't just leave it hanging without at least casually acknowledging that I remembered He had said those things. We always discuss things afterward, starting with the next day and chatting back and forth generally for the better part of a week. I dropped Him off at the airport Tuesday at noon, and in an email to Him Tuesday night, before I asked my question here, I did my usual "This was great, this was a little intense but I liked it a lot, etc, etc". I ended with "There is no could. You do make me happy. Daily."

It was the most delicate way of saying that I heard Him, and of affirming that what was said was a good thing. Awkward or not, I had to do that because He's a human being that I care about.

I didn't know if I should directly and actively (the email response was kind of indirect and passive, I think) ask Him questions about it. That's why I asked on here. Still kind of uncertain about precisely what to do.

Do you think the response I gave was enough?

Trust both of you and talk to him about it directly State. You have to put faith in this relationship that you seem to really be enjoying in order for it to succeed. The worst thing that happens is you're not there yet, which doesn't mean you won't be. Tell him how you feel, trust in yourself that you don't NEED his answer to be anything other than what it is and that you can continue to nuture yourself and the relationship regardless. He opened the door, walk through it, don't be afraid to communicate.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 12:19:54 AM

Statepalace

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laurell - Sigh. Logic.

Do you think a "I really liked it when you said X", as was suggested by a few people, would be sufficient? I would really like to take a little more time to work up to the whole "So, I'm in love - what about you?" conversation.

I wish I had done this more. Hell, I wish I'd done this period. I've never had to have this conversation.

If I am drinking heavily when I talk to Him about this, is that still considered direct communication?

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 12:41:56 AM

burningdesires47

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to answer your first question, yes, I've run into a number of folk who say things in the heat of the moment they don't mean, on both sides of the lash, let alone vanilla partners. None of those people, including myself, would preface those statements by removing you both from the scene, because that signals intent, not a slip of the tongue. Intent may be mere seconds, but it's intent, nonetheless.

I am also a proponent of waiting for the right time to say things. There is such a thing as talking a relationship to death. Sometimes, forcing conversations before you're ready to have them can kill any chance of continuation, can put pressure on the relationship to progress in a certain way at a certain pace... And sometimes, hell, ALL the time in my opinion, the enjoyment of having a relationship is finding those buttons to push that make people go squee. I'd rather get my glee from watching a girl melt under my fingertips when I find that perfect spot than have her point me to it and tell me how to manipulate her. Similarly, despite the hope it may engender in me that may be crushed later, it's better in my opinion to let may partner bring up those conversations to re-visit at their own pace. You have let him know you heard him. Ball is in his court.

Some people call it passive-aggressive manipulation. Others call it playing the game. Still others call it patience. I just call it "not talking everything to death." (Because hi, Aquarius, I tend to overthink things. I got into the habit of overthinking them out loud with my partner under the theory of better communication, ZOMG I'm supposed to talk to him if I have feelings that effect him and our relationshi and he said this so does that mean this or that or well what does it mean.... PFFT. My first step was to stop overcommunicating, before I could possibly stop overthinking.)

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 1:54:53 AM

BabyDollVanIsle

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hi statepalace,

if you are concerned enough about this, to realize you have to scale back your involvmement if it is just casual for him, then i think it is important enough to find this now.

i think you are a basically very slow moving and cautious person, who doesn't make changes fast, but who has learned, that you can take proactive steps and find your dream and your vision. you gave up your old lady with cats vision to experiment with kinky fun vision.

and what you have learned now is you can fall deeply in love with a good man who can meet your sexual needs. this is very important information for you.

that calls for a new vision, of a full time relationship fulfilling D/s relationship.

i am not telling you this. your postings and explanations speak this. i am just paraphrasing back to you what i already see.

the obvious step is to find if your Dom is the one who can give you this. you don't need till May to know this... 6 months is lots of time to get an idea about where a relationship would go for both parties.

if he isn't, you can still continue to see and enjoy him, but can also take steps to find what you do want.

my experience has been that 6 months of a focused, determined and proactive search will find a good person to have the relationship you envision with. I have done it twice now, and in both cases, despite very different circumstances and different desires, it took 6 months. it was a lot easier this last time, because i had the success of the first time to give me confidence.

and for those who will say 'yes but it took me 2 years/10 years to find mine' notice i said focused, proactive and determined search. if i can do it successfully at 40 and at 49 and at 300 lbs, anyone can do it.

not that i didn't lack confidence and feel discouraged, of course. but i kept it up and right now am seeing a wonderful Dom who also very much wants a full time 24/7 D/s relationship, and moving slowly towards it.

if it takes 6 months, that means if you find out now, there is a good chance that you can find what you want by the summer. By fall if you take it easy.

and, since you already have a Dom you really enjoy, who if he could't offer you a long term relationship is likely to understand and support your search, that puts you in a very good place to go looking. not lonely, not needy, newly confident in your ability to please and to love.. great place to go looking from.

sorry, i realize you aren't there yet. but you wouldn't believe how much my life has improved in the last 10 years from simply just being able to face what i already know, adding a little logic into the mix, and just firmly guiding my feelings into the place they neede to go and would have gotten eventually, just at a glacial pace.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 2:04:48 AM

eyesopened

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One thing i have learned is that the only point in time that actually exists is this very moment. It is the only time that can effect any change, gain, or loss. This very moment.

The past is gone and therefore does not exist. The future is not here and therefore does not exist. Only this moment.

Another thing i have learned is that it is not up to me to decide how much truth another person can handle. It's just not mine to decide. If you love this guy, say it, shout it, purr it, and be strong enough to live with the result. The guy kicks you to the curb for loving him? Better to know this now than 5 years from now. Or maybe he was just waiting for you to say it first. Why wait until May? Time is an artificial measure so the 'year" mark doesn't really mean anything more than this very moment.

Regarding his comment? Yes, he meant it at that moment.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 7:05:57 AM

SirMIkeSD

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I can tell you that I NEVER SAY ANYTHING outside of the "normal" sounds at the time. Strange things pop into my head, and I sure as hell am not going to let any of them out. I can tell that you my boy said something ONE time and I held him to it, NO he did not mean it, but I made him do it. He knows better then to say something now at that "Happy Time".

Mike

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 10:14:20 AM

FRSguy

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Nope, I am more likely to say what I truly feel that I would otherwise not say because I might think its too much.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 10:17:57 AM

Justme696

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Even if he didn't mean it, does it take away your feelings of love? Either way, you need to tell or leave. Else you might get hurt.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 11:07:29 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Statepalace

laurell - Sigh. Logic.

Do you think a "I really liked it when you said X", as was suggested by a few people, would be sufficient? I would really like to take a little more time to work up to the whole "So, I'm in love - what about you?" conversation.

I wish I had done this more. Hell, I wish I'd done this period. I've never had to have this conversation.

If I am drinking heavily when I talk to Him about this, is that still considered direct communication?

I know if I had made myself that vulnerable sooner in our relationship we may have avoided a couple of miserable months apart. If you love him, tell him, because not telling him isn't going to change how you feel and you might regret not saying it when you had the chance.

The thing is, expressing love to someone does not outright mean you expect them to return the feeling...Before I say those words I have this song echo through my head as a reminder that one cannot expect anything of anyone... but saying I love you is for me when I mean it...

Maybe I hang around here
A little more than I should
We both know I got somewhere else to go
But I got something to tell you
That I never thought I would
But I believe you really ought to know

I love you
I honestly love you

You don't have to answer
I see it in your eyes
Maybe it was better left unsaid
This is pure and simple
And you should realize
That it's coming from my heart and not my head

I love you
I honestly love you

I'm not trying to make you feel uncomfortable
I'm not trying to make you anything at all
But this feeling doesn't come along everyday
And you shouldn't blow the chance
When you've got the chance to say

I love you
I honestly love you

If we both were born
In anoother place and time
This moment might be ending in a kiss
But there you are with yours
And here I am with mine
So I guess we'll just be leaving it at this

I love you
I honestly love you
I honestly love you

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 11:40:25 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I know if I had made myself that vulnerable sooner in our relationship we may have avoided a couple of miserable months apart. If you love him, tell him, because not telling him isn't going to change how you feel and you might regret not saying it when you had the chance.

The thing is, expressing love to someone does not outright mean you expect them to return the feeling...Before I say those words I have this song echo through my head as a reminder that one cannot expect anything of anyone... but saying I love you is for me when I mean it...

*Snipped song even though I love that song*

I agree here. I was scared to death the first time I told my Master I loved him, because I was afraid to make myself vulnerable again. I told him by saying, "I'm afraid to tell you I love you."

In turn though, it was always important to me from the start to not expect to be loved in return. I told him from the beginning, "I will never ask you to love me." In part it was because I didn't think I was deserving of love. In part it was also because if he came to love me, I preferred it came to him naturally and of his own accord. My love for him is not in exchange for love in return. My love for him is because of who he is, and because I need to love him as I do. I am grateful he lets me love him as I do. He is the first person in my world who has allowed me to love as I need to love, and that meant more to me than whether or not I received any back.

As it turns out...I do.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 11:41:20 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Statepalace

laurell - Sigh. Logic.

Do you think a "I really liked it when you said X", as was suggested by a few people, would be sufficient? I would really like to take a little more time to work up to the whole "So, I'm in love - what about you?" conversation.

I wish I had done this more. Hell, I wish I'd done this period. I've never had to have this conversation.

If I am drinking heavily when I talk to Him about this, is that still considered direct communication?

Again, don't worry about his response, have faith in you that you deserve whatever it is you seek. Find out if this is it. You trust him to have sex with him, trust him to talk to him and trust you that this is not the end of the world and you are strong, capable, attractive and able to move forward even if it doesn't work out.

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RE: Things said in the heat of the, uh, moment - 1/14/2008 11:55:15 PM

YourhandMyAss

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Nope, the things I say I mean.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Statepalace

So my question is this - Do you ever make affectionate comments and/or references to future togetherness that you completely do not mean, while "in the moment"?

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