RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them?

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 12:56:43 AM

Justme696

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Aslong people have opinions there will be "them"and "us" .

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 4:21:26 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Isn't it weird we discuss this so often, instead of enjoying just who we are and what we like? (well we do enjoy..but you know what i mean)

My question to you would be, is there a problem from you, in doing both?
If I watch a film and enjoy it and then go on to discuss it with someone who has a different viewpoint, does not mean I liked the film any less or would defer to seeing it again.

So no, I personally do not think it is weird to hold a discussion, I would find it more strange if peoplewithdrew into themselves and felt unable to talk and discuss.

Didn't want to pass by this post without discussing it, even though I enjoyed reading the statement.

the.dark.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 4:22:58 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Aslong people have opinions there will be "them"and "us" .

As long as people think there is a them and us, then it will be.
Having different opinions doesn't make it so - one has to will it into being.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 4:29:47 AM

Asherdelampyr

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I like discourse, sometimes as much if not more than action

Im funny like that :P

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 5:05:54 AM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Isn't it weird we discuss this so often, instead of enjoying just who we are and what we like? (well we do enjoy..but you know what i mean)

My question to you would be, is there a problem from you, in doing both?
If I watch a film and enjoy it and then go on to discuss it with someone who has a different viewpoint, does not mean I liked the film any less or would defer to seeing it again.

So no, I personally do not think it is weird to hold a discussion, I would find it more strange if peoplewithdrew into themselves and felt unable to talk and discuss.

Didn't want to pass by this post without discussing it, even though I enjoyed reading the statement.

the.dark.

I love reactions on statements ;)
What i meant actually was, reading many other threads on this forum, for soem people it seems to be a big deal. It should not be in their way of beeing who they are.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 6:57:17 AM

Asherdelampyr

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Do you mean that they lack balance? That for them this may be all there is?

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 6:59:31 AM

Leatherist

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Nothing is absolute, saving death.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 6:59:47 AM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Do you mean that they lack balance? That for them this may be all there is?

I mean they worry to much how others think about them, instead of looking what makes them happy.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 7:01:36 AM

Asherdelampyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Do you mean that they lack balance? That for them this may be all there is?

I mean they worry to much how others think about them, instead of looking what makes them happy.

That I can agree with

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 7:25:12 AM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Do you mean that they lack balance? That for them this may be all there is?

I mean they worry to much how others think about them, instead of looking what makes them happy.

And in so doing, lose thier own happiness.

Be kinder to the "us", and the "them" will matter less-if at all.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 7:28:03 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Do you mean that they lack balance? That for them this may be all there is?

I mean they worry to much how others think about them, instead of looking what makes them happy.

Ah, that is because there are people who view judgement as a negative - instead of understanding that it is worthwhile tool.

the.dark.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 7:30:34 AM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Do you mean that they lack balance? That for them this may be all there is?

I mean they worry to much how others think about them, instead of looking what makes them happy.

Ah, that is because there are people who view judgement as a negative - instead of understanding that it is worthwhile tool.

the.dark.

agree, but judgment can be also a destroying power. Depends on how you are judged.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 7:30:59 AM

Leatherist

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If judgement breaks one out of narrowness,into a broader perspective it is a good thing.

The difference is clearly intent. Something can be phrased in such a manner as to enlighten, or simply to try to build upon ruins. If one has to constantly tear down something to build up-or feel empowered...I would find it of questionable merit.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 7:48:04 AM

RCdc

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This is both in reply to Just and Leatherist -

I completely get that there are those 'tearing down' judgements, however, I am big on the belief that you/we(generic) are responsible how we take those judgements.
If you are happy and enjoying (re Just's comment) - you just brush it off.
If you are wrapped up in the judgement of the comments rather than enjoying, then you let it fester inside.

How you are judged does make a difference, but how you ingest the judgement makes a bigger difference in the end.

the.dark.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 8:11:12 AM

Leatherist

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Judgements that do not confirm a certain view of mine are only a threat if I feel they may be right-but am in denial of that.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 8:17:50 AM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Aslong people have opinions there will be "them"and "us" .

Until you manage to put an end to Social Identity Theory, there will most likely always be a "them" and "us".

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 8:22:38 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Aslong people have opinions there will be "them"and "us" .

*Quick Hijack*

Where's Level when I need him? "Them" and "Us" may be problematic, but "Us and Them" (Pink Floyd) is an awesome song.

*End of Hijack*

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 8:49:48 AM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

This is both in reply to Just and Leatherist -

I completely get that there are those 'tearing down' judgements, however, I am big on the belief that you/we(generic) are responsible how we take those judgements.
If you are happy and enjoying (re Just's comment) - you just brush it off.
If you are wrapped up in the judgement of the comments rather than enjoying, then you let it fester inside.

How you are judged does make a difference, but how you ingest the judgement makes a bigger difference in the end.

the.dark.

Yes that is a point. Agree, how you recieve a judgement is very important. But with judgements (and related emotions) one always have to think how to bring an opinion. It can be done with out hurting people.

quote:

Social Identity Theory

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Aslong people have opinions there will be "them"and "us" .

Until you manage to put an end to Social Identity Theory, there will most likely always be a "them" and "us".

I don't know the social identity theory (is it for group related behaviour?), but I know even a single person will always judge an other.

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 1/15/2008 8:53:56 AM >

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 9:10:56 AM

Mercnbeth

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...from where does it stem?

from the phrase "alternative lifestyle".

if all you've ever gathered from vanilla life is the Puritan-esque values of denying one's sexuality if it deviates from the missionary postion with the lights off to none other than your betrothed in holy matrimony, that permeate both secular and non-secular venues---an "alternative" to that would be one of embracing one's sexuality, bringing it out into the open and an expectation of acceptance...wouldn't it?

"better" is a qualifier that this slave would use as it applies to an individual or individual relationship, not as a blanket generality for all who participate in either vanilla or alternative lifestyles.

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/15/2008 10:26:57 AM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

I don't know the social identity theory (is it for group related behaviour?), but I know even a single person will always judge an other.

Paraphrasing what I read with respect to the fact that I don't have a reference right in front of me...

It's a theory that states basically that most human beings feel the need to identity or be part of a group. We are social animals and form herds out of nature. Identifying with some form of a group is a part of our identity as individuals.

A great example of this is sports fans and fanatics. They identity with a particular team, forming different groups of fans. They pack into sports bars, developing instant camaraderie and brotherhood with complete strangers simply because they share loyalty to the same team. At the same time developing intense rivalry, disdain, and in extreme cases, hatred (Soccer riots, anyone?) toward other complete strangers for no other reason then because they have loyalty for a rival team. In many cases, the success or failure of their team has effects on the person's psyche. Bliss and joy at success and depression at failure (even to the point of effecting their personal and professional life). I'm sure if you have hung around a group of sports fans, you will probably hear the same type of talking. "We did it!", "We won!", and "We lost!".

I find it to be a pretty interesting phenomena, because there isn't any logical reason for this behavior. The vast majority of these people don't contribute or invest anything in these teams. They don't do much of anything except watch the game on the television while indulging in beer and chips. They have no claim to share in the credit or should feel any personal fault for the loss. The fact that they are willing to dislike, start an argument, throw a punch or even kill over the simple fact that someone likes a team that they don't is about as silly as the two of us starting a fight because of our difference in daytime television soap opera preferences.

The answer to this behavior is where Social Identity Theory comes into play. The psychological need of the human identity to be part of some kind of group.

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