RE: Can unconditional love exist? (Full Version)

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brainiacsub -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:18:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

ok....and I could respond......how can it be love if conditions are placed upon it? is there no room for growth, change and acceptance? Is my view so narrow that I can not see the big picture?

Jeff

this allows that what originaly attracted you to that person are not so much conditions as facts

It is not your view that is so narrow, but maybe some of your definitions... Do you ever really fall in love with people, or just the way they make you feel? This is probably true for most people, and it sure explains alot about why attraction seems to change over time. The 'unconditionality' of love takes on a whole new meaning in this context.





Suleiman -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:18:58 PM)

(via Fast Reply)

Love is a sticky word in our language, and applies to a number of conditions and states of being. As such, I would say that both conditional and unconditional love exist, and have experienced both firsthand. I often struggle with words from other languages to clarify this semantic jumble. Typically I break what we call "Capital L" love into three general categories : Agape, Fides, Eros. Each is capable of expressing itself as love, or as lust, but there are particular flavorings to each (Please keep in mind this is my own psychobabble and not to be mistaken for actual definitions of the words - I have simply found some words whose meanings are close to what I have experienced in myself and observed in others, and then malapropriated them in the name of convenient labelling). Eros, erotic love, is what most people think of when they refer to love in a romantic sense. It need not be sexual per se, but frequently a desire for physical intimacy is part of the experience. Erotic love can be unconditional, but frequently it is a short-lived experience if there is nothing else to shore it up. Fides, Loyalty, is the love that a person has for persons in their community (Again, with the mangling, I am including all aspects of intense loyalty and fidelity in this one convenient label). We don't call this love any more due to uncomfortable homoerotic undertones (modern Americans in particular seem to think that love is a purely sexual experience) but as recently as three or four decades ago, and for the last four or five centuries before that, this was counted as one of the purest forms of love there is - Love of family, love of friends, love of community. The love for a commanding officer that causes a soldier to follow orders that are clearly suicidal. The love for a country that leads men to march onto the field of war in her defense. Fides is often unconditional. You love your family and stand by them, even if they are a bunch of primitive screwheads that you can't stand the sight of. Even so, Fides has its breaking points, and so I can not call it absolutely unconditional. Most folks, no matter how loyal, will eventually give up a toxic relationship. Finally, there is the truely unconditional form of love. Agape. It's an experience so foreign to most people that it seems like a trancendental episode. Agape is the love that the divine has for humanity. Agape is the unconditional love that it is possible to feel, but is most often shut out, for another human being - any human being, without any requirement of knowing them, interacting with them, giving anything to them or asking anything from them. Usually, after experiencing Agape, most people wind up reevaluating their lives, having a crisis of faith, and run off to a monastary somewhere to make sense of whatever it was that just happened to them. Then again, most people will never experience Agape.

Love can be unconditional, but we are flawed creatures, and so there are flaws in how we express out feelings. These flaws become conditional modifiers. Time limits, hard limits, feeling that the honeymoon is over or that the person you are with is not who you thought them to be. I have fallen in love with very few people. Several of them have hurt me badly. I still remember their names, their faces, and all the little details about them. Nearly half of them did not reciprocate my feelings. Others had difficulty expressing what they felt, because they could only contextualize love as an erotic thing, and I was just not their type. I love each and every one of them, even decades after the fact.




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:23:36 PM)

take it from someone who has not been loved because of the physical conditions that cause people to hate or be scared of me.

there is no unconditional love among humans.  there is to much hate and anger and is why divorce is at its highest rate ever and why relationships dont last very long.

humans and their pets...yes...it  exists....and im talking cats, dogs, birds... not pet slaves.





denika -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:24:15 PM)

Most things is life have a condition of one kind or another. I love Rob with my heart, body and breathe, no questions asked, But..big but.. even after 18 years together if he started slaughtering my pets or doing something equally freakish there would be some serious conditions happening on that love. But even then I might not like him but a part of me would always love him.

Love is a strange emotion, some can let it out easier than other's. Mind you again, some people put a price and a condition on everything in their life, love included. I like my Father's advice *s* Love is blind but the neighbors ain't.[:)]


Wolf's denika




adoracat -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:24:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

i  however, i also believe that you can love a person, but be so hurt by their actions that there is no way you can be in their presence. 


And I hate that so much.....
I have the problem I really never hate some one I was with, no matter what happened. Pisses me off



*nods*  it breaks my heart.  *sighs*

kitten




PanthersMom -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:25:37 PM)

it does exist, at least that's how i see it.  i have four young ones, three of them adopted, all of them with special needs, including one who is bipolar and at times completely out of control.  i love them all unconditionally, my flesh and blood or not.  i love hubby unconditionally.  we've had good times and bad and no matter what, my feelings for him have only grown deeper over the almost 6 yrs together.  maybe other people don't believe in it, but i do.

PM




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:27:38 PM)

Uncondotional love seems to be for the ums.




BitaTruble -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:33:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


 
Is love or can love be in itself - conditional or unconditional?

 
Well, technically, you can say that anything is a condition. I mean, existance itself is a condition. I can't love God if I have no knowledge of God. I guess I would say that finding love is conditional but being in love needn't be conditional.
 
Celeste
 




Jeffff -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:35:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

It is not your view that is so narrow, but maybe some of your definitions... Do you ever really fall in love with people, or just the way they make you feel? This is probably true for most people, and it sure explains alot about why attraction seems to change over time. The 'unconditionality' of love takes on a whole new meaning in this context.




No....sometimes the person you love pisses you off....:)

and that IT......really no more for me

Jeff





IrishMist -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 3:57:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

IT is funny how clinical people talk about love....untill they really fall in love and are blinded by it

Why would you say such a thing? Are you a front seat viewer who has access to the emotions of others that you can state such a thing? Are you so all knowing that you can look at a couple and know the exact state and level of emotion that they feel for each other?

Must be nice to be such a powerful person.




IrishMist -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:02:45 PM)

quote:

I am really interested in this statement...but if it's not something you want to discuss here, I understand.  If it's something you are open to discussing, may I ask why it has no meaning?

I don't mind at all [:D]

I am going to answer by first asking a question.

Can you HONESTLY say that what you feel for your owner/partner is so limited that only a simple word can describe the feeling?

I love flowers, I love guns, I love knives, I love my friends, I love my family, I love ice cream....I love watching football...[:D][:)]

Get the point? LOL

I can't see taking an emotion that is so strong, and so powerful that it can literally knock you off your feet; and attatching such a .....common...word to it.




angelslave77 -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:32:25 PM)

I get where IM is coming from totally here but having said that I am a hopeless romantic who "loves "very easilly, but for that reason when it comes to describing what I feel for those nearest and dearest to me, my um's, siblings parents, best friend and my Sir love does seem far to common. These are people I would give me last breath to protect, these are the people who everyday of my life I  say thankyou that I have been so blessed to have them in my life.
So now take out the DNA out of this equation and my best friend (who is like a sister) and strip it down to the "romantic love relationship" I have with my Sir. I believe this is totally unconditional, he has captured my heart and soul, there is a peace and joy in knowing him and knowing that he is mine and I am his, that I have never felt for anyone (and yet I was certain I had been "in love" before).

So for want of a better term, yes I do believe love can be unconditional because there are no conditions placed on my love for Sir, ok so if he started going around doing unspeakable things I wouldnt be with him anymore but then he would no longer be the man I fell in "love" with he would be a stranger and even then I know my heart would grieve the loss of the man I once knew.

That however does not mean I love him on the condition he is not going to change, I fully believe that over time we will both change and grow, sometimes in good ways sometimes not, I just dont believe that his personality would ever become so fractured that it would change the very core of who he is.

I hope that makes some kinda sense to someone




MistressNoName -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:44:04 PM)

IMO love is always unconditional. I love a person and that is that. Whether or not I am able to sustain a relationship with another is a different matter entirely, having nothing to do with my love for the person.


MNN




Evility -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:45:08 PM)

Yes, I think love can be unconditional. I actually happen to think that love with conditions really isn't love at all. Love is a lot like submission... if it comes with conditions then what good is it? And why would anyone want that?




charmdpetKeira -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:48:31 PM)

~fr~

I believe “Love” is unconditional, but that many people say it without really meaning it, or understanding what it means.
 
It doesn’t mean though, that one should love another, if in doing so, it is harmful to them.
 
k




Prinsexx -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:56:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover



  If love were unconditional, then we would love everyone (and that's obviously a falsehood). 
 

John

Dear John: (but also to the others i have read)
Logic is not one of my strong points.....intuition and empathy are. So it seems to me John that you and i could argue the toss for evermore from our 'perspective' viewpoints....and yet....I feel within that i have been blessed to be able to experience unconditional love....not all of the time and not everywhere and therefore not everywhere all of the time....sometimes fleetingly and sometimes for extended periods of time and in some places for indefineable periods of time. Perhaps you might say this has been becaause i have experienced most definitely what unconditional love is not. And therefore, (poor logic as i stated) by comparison i know i know unconditional love. I know it by combinations of different modes of experience: call it compassion, for me, by me, call it foregiveness, call it acceptance. Yet all of these expressions fall short of absolute love....and isn't it just the strangest thing that we would want to adress absolute love by a negative by a what it is not?
My bdsm choices are simply some of the ways which have helped me to understand absoluteness.....to know that pain and sacrifice can inhabit the world of love. To know that anger and complete surrender to the anger of another can be healed also by the very same agressor.
I cannot therefore ever go back to love which was EXCLUSIVE and so i trust that i am entering more and more deeply, with acceptance, into a world of INCLUSIVITY.
I was talking to a lady of 96 today. My parting words to her were: you are so wonderful and strong and amazing. i hope when i go i shall go kicking and screaming for my henna and lipstick and holding onto the man i love....she seemed to accept and understand what i was saying with a twinkle and a laugh.
There have been intense moments of what i would term extraordinary spirituality which are way off topic here BUT when i think of going back to what i thought love was (even if it were ever possible to go back and i know it isn't) then i would say, that even if i wasn't yet there, in a state of bliss all of the time, then i am heading towards it rather than away.
Someome remind me of this when i am next in downtime or hit the wall called a limit......





kittensmailbox -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:59:11 PM)

i truly believe that there is unconditional love.... some place....




Prinsexx -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 4:59:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

IMO love is always unconditional. I love a person and that is that. Whether or not I am able to sustain a relationship with another is a different matter entirely, having nothing to do with my love for the person.


MNN

[sm=applause.gif]




ownedgirlie -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 5:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

I am really interested in this statement...but if it's not something you want to discuss here, I understand.  If it's something you are open to discussing, may I ask why it has no meaning?

I don't mind at all [:D]

I am going to answer by first asking a question.

Can you HONESTLY say that what you feel for your owner/partner is so limited that only a simple word can describe the feeling?

I love flowers, I love guns, I love knives, I love my friends, I love my family, I love ice cream....I love watching football...[:D][:)]

Get the point? LOL

I can't see taking an emotion that is so strong, and so powerful that it can literally knock you off your feet; and attatching such a .....common...word to it.


Thank you, Irish Mist! 

Yes, I totally get what you are saying.  I am always telling him that saying I love him is such an inadequate expression.  No, the word "love" is not nearly enough to describe it. 

You took this in an entirely different direction than I expected.  Awesome!

This must be why different languages have different words for the various kinds of love.  In Spanish, we say "Te quiero" which literally means "I want you" in the deepest sense.  Then of course there's Greek, with Agape (love and caring unconditionally, such as from God), Philios (love of friends), Storge (love through familiarity, such as family), and Eros (being in love).  C.S. Lewis wrote a book called The Four Loves, in which he defines each.  My Dad read it and said he did not like it, which surprised me.  When asked, he said even four definitions is too limiting.

Thanks so much for your reply.




damnddom -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/16/2008 5:10:59 PM)

quote:


Edited to add: 
Having said that, I don't dwell on what conditions may arise that would stop me from loving someone.  I liken that to having one foot out the door. 



My first posting and I agree.  I'd rather love unconditionally than any other way.




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