RE: Can unconditional love exist? (Full Version)

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magicone -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 12:24:43 AM)

to me Love is uncoditional...
i do love my kid unconditional like my Man/ Husband/ Daddy.....

just cause people hurt me, didn't met my expectations does not mean i do not love them anymore...

concerning circumstances and to take care of myself - does not mean i have to cancel love..

people i really loved in my life... i still love them, either i am with them, either there are still a part of my life...

funny to recognize that often people when expectations not met they flip the coin and start to hate ,-))



Justme696 -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 1:04:47 AM)

quote:

funny to recognize that often people when expectations not met they flip the coin and start to hate ,-))


Yes i am always wondered about that too. Peopel spend 10 or more years together...split..and then hate eachother. I can think of soem things that really can hurt you, but mostly they hate eachother more..because of the divorce procudere..and not so much of who they were/are.

I still love the ones I have been with too. Although differently, and I don't want them always around. 



laurell3 -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 1:09:08 AM)

I'm not sure I believe those people that have had intimate relationships actually hate the person as much as their anger, fear and hurt is so deep they cannot get past it.



Justme696 -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 1:23:10 AM)

I can imagine it, when you are used by a person who did that on purpose.
Especially when they leave you with a child.

But agreed...it is beter to focus not on the hatred, but that is hard when all seems to go wrong in life at that moment.



RCdc -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 2:50:08 AM)

That will teach me to post before I switch off - so much to read through!
Thanks to everyone who posted.  I have read through a few times now and am not frightened to say, I learnt so much!  Even to the point that I see it differently right at this moment, and now find myself believe Love is unconditional.
I 'love' reading and talking stuff through and understanding a different point of view and discovering I actually get it that much, it makes me alter my opinion.
Totally rocks.
 
the.dark.



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 3:13:56 AM)

I really can't answer the unconditional part, but I know it's very powerful. It gives a level of submission that is deep and real. I am careful with love because it's a life and death thing. Make a girl believe you love her and take it away can destroy her. Same the other way around.



vampiresscammy -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 5:25:18 AM)

short answer - yes

long answer - having been there, done that, its my own persoanl experience that yes love can be and is unconditional, even if the one you love turns out to be a real demon is disguise your hurt, betrayed, torn to pieces and still looking at this person trying to hide the love which may only be the tiniest of sparks but still sits inside wishing it was all a lie or a nightmare,

or if your lucky the more positive side where the one you love simply falls into a place in their mind you cannot follow, you don't stop loving them, you don't let go, you simply can't hold on when what you were holding no longer exists, you want to hold on forever, you want to call them back to you, but they are so far gone they could not hear you even if they tried

in both cases I never stopped loving either of them, and I doubt I will, in the first case its an embarassment and shameful thing to admit about oneself, it the second case, I'd given it all to follow, my life, my breath, my soul, my heart, my mind just to hear another word that had some coherence to it

both those loves are no longer in my life, one by choice, the other by chance, not wanting to live with someone does not negate my love for them, and death does not stop it either

i can not imagine a situation that could possibly take my love from my children, or my sis, or my hubby

hubby and I have been through hell and back a few times now, and we as individuals have changed, but it did not change the fact that we love one another, there have been quite drastic changes since we first chose one another, and we still love one another whoel heartedly

i guess for me, a person changing and at worst becoming someone i hate, loathe, and simply can not stand the sight of does not mean the love i felt for whom they were has suddenly stopped existing, by the same token, when another person i love dies it does not mesn that love is gone, or when the person changes so much from the one i originally fell in love with, the love can change and grow with them, so i suppose to me unconditional love would be ever changing as people change as well over time, it seems to me the love must change to accomodate and accept who the people in it now are instead of being stagnate around who they once were, and wow, thats a whole lot of babbling, im gonna go be quiet now, lol



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 5:45:47 AM)

does unconditional love exist? yes it does between a parent and UM ...if lucky, between a husband and wife.

does unconditional love exist within a D/s dynamic? yes, it certainly does between Daddy and me. He shows it in many ways from little gifts to a favorite song that He knows i'll enjoy ...or just by being there. i'll have His unconditional love and promise (that He'll care for me) always. vice versa, He has my unconditional love like a daughter who loves her father.




Rover -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 6:18:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


quote:

I believe this is very well reasoned, and stated.  If love were unconditional, then we would love everyone (and that's obviously a falsehood). 


I’m sorry, I don’t see a natural flow of logic here.


Logically, if love were not the result of certain conditions then there would be nothing to prevent it from occuring in all instances, with all people.

quote:


quote:

 
There is a certain undefinable "chemistry" that causes us to love one person, and not another


If it is undefinable (sic), how is it you have made an absolute out of it?


You've lost me here.... completely. 

quote:


quote:
And there are certain very definable things that people can do that would preclude the ability to love them any longer.  We see examples of that everyday in the news.

 
I don’t believe this is true for me and my UMs. It cannot be proved empirically, of course, but I don’t believe this is the case for me. (I acknowledge it may be for you.)


Further evidence that love is conditional, in that there is clearly a variance from individual to individual as to the nature of those conditions.  If different conditions can produce different results amongst individuals, it is evidence (though not proof) that different conditions can produce different results within individuals.  And particularly so when some individuals state that differing conditions would, or has, altered the results.
 
John



Taintedblood -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 6:20:58 AM)

i think love is all down to the individuals involved as to whether it is conditional or not.
 
i think the word love is thrown around far too much by far too many people, therefore the word love has lost its value.  i wouldn't say i love any of my shoes or clothes simply because i don't - i do like them though.
 
i believe (now this is only what i believe) that we don't choose who we fall in love with or how we fall in love.
 
i have an ex boyfriend who was really quite nasty with me and hurt me beyond the core of letting anyone get close to me again he manipulated my thoughts, my mind, my all and really hurt me to boot with alot of the things we did and up until recently i still would have done anything for him and its over 4 yrs ago since we split up.
 
do i still love him yes....even though he really hurt me and is not a decent person at all....the answer is still yes....however i love him differently but i definately do not like him at all.
 
then again i also believe love dosnt really disapear it just fades to varying degrees and shades of grey.
 
someone taught me very recently that people could become close to me and this person i believe i love unconditionally...without reason without doubt.... and i havent known him long at all...but within half an hour of meeting him i knew i loved him....and i do know the difference between love and lust.
 
what is more important to me is that i like him as well....we cannot dictate who we fall in love with or who we love but we can dictate who we like.
 
these are just my musings and my opinions though.....everyone is different and it wouldn't do if we where all the same.
 



Rover -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 6:24:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover



  If love were unconditional, then we would love everyone (and that's obviously a falsehood). 
 

John

Dear John: (but also to the others i have read)
Logic is not one of my strong points.....intuition and empathy are. So it seems to me John that you and i could argue the toss for evermore from our 'perspective' viewpoints....and yet....I feel within that i have been blessed to be able to experience unconditional love....not all of the time and not everywhere and therefore not everywhere all of the time....sometimes fleetingly and sometimes for extended periods of time and in some places for indefineable periods of time.


An interesting question to ask yourself is what causes you to love one person and not another?  What causes you to love someone for a finite period of time?  If they are not conditions, what are they?
 
John



IrishMist -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 6:26:09 AM)

Tainted....

very nicely said

~GR~
I agree with Dark in that this thread has been very interesting. It has not caused me to change my views, but it has been interesting none-the-less.



juliaoceania -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 6:48:39 AM)

quote:

Further evidence that love is conditional


If we are going to start trying to logically prove that unconditional love exists, you are first going to have to prove the conditional kind does, and before you prove the conditional kind exists you are going to have to empirically prove love exists at all. And while this would lead to some interesting Platonic moments, I do not think that there is "evidence" of any sort of ephemeral emotion such as love.

Bearing offspring is the condition under which unconditional love comes into being, that does not make the love itself conditional



Rover -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 7:02:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Bearing offspring is the condition under which unconditional love comes into being, that does not make the love itself conditional


If that is the case, then it still is conditional... conditional upon being an offspring.  And while I don't have children of my own, it seems to be a rather common expression amongst those that do. 
 
So, if I were to accept that the condition necessary is to have a parental relationship, I would accept a condition that is very specific and which is not in existence between partners.
 
John



juliaoceania -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 7:13:16 AM)

I posted earlier about an unconditional love I have for my ex husband, and he has done some very mean, nasty, abusive things to me. I used to say he killed my love because at times I felt like I hated him. I never hated him, I just had to get over the deep disappointment, pain, and regret I had over that relationship ending. My love for my ex is unconditional, I feel it whether I see him or not (and I haven't seen him in many years). It isn't dependent on his doing anything. I have no desire to ever be with him again, and I do not like many things about him... but love him I do. I love what we were to each other. I love the offspring we had together. I know there is someone out there that when one of us dies, the other will mourn for the other. Now, the relationship is conditional, but the love I have for him isn't.



Justme696 -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 7:15:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I posted earlier about an unconditional love I have for my ex husband, and he has done some very mean, nasty, abusive things to me. I used to say he killed my love because at times I felt like I hated him. I never hated him, I just had to get over the deep disappointment, pain, and regret I had over that relationship ending. My love for my ex is unconditional, I feel it whether I see him or not (and I haven't seen him in many years). It isn't dependent on his doing anything. I have no desire to ever be with him again, and I do not like many things about him... but love him I do. I love what we were to each other. I love the offspring we had together. I know there is someone out there that when one of us dies, the other will mourn for the other. Now, the relationship is conditional, but the love I have for him isn't.


That is beautifully explained. I feel similar too..sadness..not hate. Anger take so much energy.
It is better to put that energy in the next relation or recovering



Rover -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 7:19:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I posted earlier about an unconditional love I have for my ex husband, and he has done some very mean, nasty, abusive things to me.


What is that proof of, other than he has not gone far enough to reach a condition in which you no longer are able to love him?  What if he were to (God forbid) do something awful to your UM?
 
This is really like the many "no limits" threads in that respect. 

John



charmdpetKeira -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 7:40:21 AM)

~fr~

I would like to slightly change my previous answer.
 
I doubt I would unconditionally love someone; it takes knowing, trust, and respect for me to open up enough for “love”, to happen.. How can I love someone I’ve never met?
 
On the other hand, I can love someone unconditionally, and do; that is what love is.
 
Sometimes loving someone means; walking away, letting them fall, or even pushing them. Love is not always kind, but it is sincere.
 
k



Justme696 -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 7:50:03 AM)

quote:

Sometimes loving someone means; walking away, letting them fall, or even pushing them. Love is not always kind, but it is sincere.


poetry



Phoenix2raven -> RE: Can unconditional love exist? (1/17/2008 7:56:01 AM)

the.dark., i believe in loving unconditionally, but i don't expect others to do the same. it's kinda hard to explain but i'll try.

it took me quite a few years but eventually i realized, love is not finite, it's not like i have a certain amount inside me and say "ok, i'll give this much to you, and this much to you." i realized i've never felt like that, and then i realized i've never had any shortage of love in my life.

i finally figured out, to me, unconditional love feels like i have a door inside me, and love simply passes through it to others. (love from the universe, from god, from whatever one wants to call it.) i'm just a conduit, a door, a window. BDSM relationship or not, friends, strangers, it's all the same. other people in my life choose to accept that love, or not.

all this being said, when someone else's love is conditional, at first it hurts like a sumbitch! then i realize, i have no shortage of love in my life, so it's ok.

i guess i'm kinda a new-age fluffy woo-woo about love :)
raven



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