RE: muslim(ah) members? (Full Version)

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Alumbrado -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 8:56:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

is it even humanly possible to have a discussion thread on islam as a religion, as a spiritual practice without turning it into a red herring thread (on sexual harassment) or another islam-bashing thread on this forum?

seriously. the issue of sexual harrassment was not the point of the thread. the issue of attitudes towards women is my own personal experience and that of women i personally know, not a sweeping general statement about islam itself, and yet again, not the purpose of the thread.

just curious. i sincerely apologize for my naive attempt.


Nothing naive about it... try addressing what I actually said about all members of all religions being humans first and foremost, instead of projecting your prejudices onto me...so far the anti-Islam innuendo and deflection about sexual harassment here has been all yours.



RCdc -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 9:22:27 AM)

It's all good annabelle.  It is unfortunate that it came across that way (the whole harrassment thang) and it's cool we cleared it up.  No ones blame hey, sometimes we don't write as we think and sometimes people do not read as we write!
I think the reason I identify with much sufi poetry and writings is the sense of balance and the perfume of humility that seeps from their words.  The sentiments of love in sufi writings are probably the closest I have come to the love expressed through the teachings of jesus.  Are you thinking of converting?  Or are you simply interested in parts of so you can embrace it into your own unique spirituality?
 
the.dark.



LadyLynx -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 9:28:59 AM)

havn't read the thread, (Don't have time at the moment.) but wanted to add my .02 worth:

I do not know much about Islam, but some of the things that I have heard have been really intriging. (though not enough to convert. I like the freedoms I have grown up with ;))

Unfortunately Muslim extremists like Bin Laden have made alot of people think the worst about them. Anyways, to any members who are Muslim and reads the forums, please come and talk. Not going to lie and say that everyone will accept you,  but I know quite a few will keep an openmind. (of course as long as you are courteous and openminded yourselves, *winks*)



Aneirin -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 9:45:11 AM)

Well said, I for one would like to hear from our islamic members, lets get the truths, not the fiction or other based upon sensationalist news or other sources of axe grinding.



Rule -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 9:53:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle
i'm still lost on where attitude and perception problems come in to my spiritual path, so maybe you could help me with that.
You have no idea? How about this:
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle
perhaps i'm more sensitive to things like this as a rape survivor and as someone who has dealt with body image issues
I would guess that such a thing would affect one's attitude and perception.
 
Moreover, I do wonder what spiritual and behavioral and (body) language signals you emit that someone targetted you. I suppose that you have had victim help. It might be wise to go back for some more, or to look for more professional help as regards psychology and spiritual help.
 
You might also ask your master to walk you to and from university.



hisannabelle -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 10:07:32 AM)

greetings .the.dark.,

probably the latter - i could not fully convert for the same reason i could never be solely christian or solely anything else - there are certain teachings that i simply can't agree with, and my path is also very eclectic.

i also love sufi poetry :) i agree - the love expressed is profoundly transformative. i mostly read rumi before my recent interest in islam, but i got a thin book called "essential sufism" recently with poems and stories from other sufi writers and i'm beginning to explore a bit more outside the box there.

i also am not sure if adonis is sufi or mainstream muslim, but i did some research on the history of arab poetry a couple of years ago and had the opportunity to read some of his work - his book a time between ashes and roses is amazing. if you haven't read it, i would definitely recommend it.

greetings rule,

there are many things in my life that affect my attitude and perception - i don't see how those are better or worse than things that affect the same for others', though. my experience is that we've all been through difficult things at some point in our lives. i also receive psychiatric, nutrition, and individual and group therapy care on a fairly regular basis (primarily for help handling my physical disabilities and the stress of having no other financial or emotional support, but for those issues as well).

unfortunately, having grown up here (and living practically on campus), university is not the problem - usually the street harrassment happens when i am running errands elsewehere or going to work. i'm sure part of it has to do with being a pedestrian and being more exposed because of that - i've walked and taken the bus for about 10 years now. it would be nice if he could be my "escort," so to speak! but it's wishful thinking - he also works full time.

respectfully,
annabelle.



hisannabelle -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 10:19:53 AM)

ah! this reminds me of a strange article i read recently on how people who have an eclectic spirituality tend to be crazier than others. (personally i think it's a farce, but it's amusing nonetheless. it makes me wonder if us non-mainstream bdsm-ers tend to be crazier, too?)

http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/01/does-eclectic-spirituality-make-you.html

quote:

"A UQ study has found that young adults with a belief in a spiritual or higher power other than God were at more risk of poorer mental health and deviant social behaviour than those who rejected these beliefs. Young men who held non-traditional religious views were at twice the risk of being more anxious and depressed than those with traditional beliefs. The study was based on surveys of 3705 21-year-olds in Brisbane under the Mater-University of Queensland Study of Pregnancy."
/off-topic



MistressNoName -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 10:20:14 AM)

quote:

still, i love reading the qur'an and learning about islam, and there are certain things i would like to do, like keep hijab, but i feel strange and out of place because i'm very prominent in the local buddhist community and also because i don't identify solely as muslimah so it is somewhat socially awkward.


Just wanted to comment on this. I have not done an extensive study, but I have an interest in Buddhism and from what I have read, the Buddha himself never stated that anyone should have to give up his/her other religious practice in order to be on the path. The Buddha only asked his followers to consider whether the practice of that religion was able to direct one on a path to happiness. But historically, it was not uncommon for a Buddhist to also maintain practice of other religions. If you are able to practice so that the two religions coexist peaceably and this nourishes you, then others within the Buddhist community should really have no problem with that - and if they do, well, that is their concern then. But it would make you no less a Buddhist in so doing.

Best,

MNN

{P.S. What is hijab? - Never mind, question answered}



RCdc -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 10:52:30 AM)

Hi annabelle.
Something I thought I would mention/ask if you have music as an interest and have considered meditation or yoga as well?  There is a really interesting form of yoga you might want to find out about 'Bhakti'.  It is a very intense meditation, centred in love and God - you might be interested.  If you enjoy music, I may have some good ideas you could listen to - and they rock as background music for massage.[:)]
 
the.dark.



kdsub -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 12:16:00 PM)

 Maybe I am wrong but I think it is a lot harder and dangerous…in most Muslim controlled areas of the world… to participate openly in …well… alternate lifestyles.

In some parts of the Muslim world it will get you executed… As a bisexual male I will tell you that I often receive mail from Pakistan and Iran of a sexual nature… even though I believe it is a punishable crime there.

I find it hard to believe Ahmadinejad’s claim there are no homosexuals in his country. I am sure there is also a population of people into BDSM but they fear for their safety if discovered.

Not passing judgment on a whole religion because of the actions of a few but there are some areas of the Muslim religion that are uncompromisingly strict. Alternate sexual lifestyles seem to be one of those areas.

I don’t think you will find a lot Muslims openly participating in this lifestyle because of fear of retribution. If I am wrong I will be pleasantly surprised

Butch



Feric -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 12:42:02 PM)

As I understand it, "isla" means "peace". To be truly Islamic one must embrace peace, which is why Muslims worldwide are disgusted with the stereotype of the raving fanatic with bombs strapped to his chest.

Hisannabelle, you appear to be on a search for personal meaning and security, which is quite normal at your age (for the record, I did this too, though I studied Taoism). Finding one's place is oh so important!

Here are some literary recommendations:

Kabul Beauty School: An American Woman Goes Behind the Veil, by Deborah Rodriguez & Kristin Ohlson. Very good book.

Reading Lolita in Tehran, by Azar Nafisi. Both enlightening and provocative; women in strict submission under a repressive regime struggle to assert themselves.

Not Without my Daughter, by Betty Mahmoody. A very gripping story.

I hope this helps you in your personal journey.



seeksfemslave -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 2:43:26 PM)

I believe Feric has put his finger on something here. Islam does indeed mean peace and we are told this repeatedly by Islamic apologists.
In fact the more people killed by devout Muslims the more often we are told that Islam is a religion of peace. Remember that Saudi Princess who was publicly beheaded ?

I too would welcome reading posts on this problem from Muslims.

Just noticed hisannabelle's post about mental health in young people and their search for other spiritual truths. I believe that such youngsters are likely to be more intelligent sensitive and feel isolated and bereft.
I noted that in you Annie and I still believe it is almost certainly a phase thru' which you will emerge unscathed.
Intellectually/spiritually satisfying?    maybe not.
True.?..almost certainly.



hisannabelle -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 9:41:42 PM)

greetings seeksfemslave,

well, it's a phase that i've spent more than half my life in (my mom used to say it was a phase, too, until it just kept going and going), and i hope it doesn't end anytime soon. granted, i am still young, but i plan to teach buddhism for the rest of my life (and i'm sure as hell putting myself in enough debt to be stuck doing it for that long) so it's not as if even if i do grow up, become a conservative, revert fully to christianity, and decide all of the other things i believe lead only to hell, i'll actually be able to get away from it ;) i may one day settle into one religion or belief system, but i've always loved religion as a whole and i can't imagine that being a phase.

on the issue of islam and war/peace, people are killed all the time in the name of religion, yet islam is the religion that always takes shit for it. developmentally it's moving in the same direction as christianity, on the same timeline, and yet no one remembers how many people have been murdered in the name of christianity. i practice buddhism, and even buddhists kill each other in the name of buddhism (and kill non-buddhists as well). for example, in sri lanka, the buddhists are basically committing genocide against the tamils on the basis that tamils are subhuman. many people have died as a result of sectarian strife in tibetan buddhism, historically speaking but also in the last few years with the split particularly in gelug and kagyu schools over methods of practice and over the identity of the 16th karmapa. it's no different from shi'a and sunni sectarian strife in islam. yet no one argues when people call buddhism a religion of peace. as alumbrado so eloquently put it (and i hope i'm not mistaking his words - if i am, please forgive me), it's not the religion but the people that tend to screw things up.

respectfully,
annabelle.



Aylee -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 10:05:16 PM)

A few suggested books for you HisAnnabelle:

Women in Islam and the Middle East: A Reader ~ Edited by Ruth Roded
"Believing Women" in Islam: Understanding Patriarchal Interpretations of the Qur'an ~ Asma Barlas
The Veil and the Male Elite: A Feminist Interpretation of Women's Rights in Islam ~ Fatima Mernissi
Zoya's Story: An Afghan Woman's Struggle for Freedom ~ Zoya, John Follain, and Rita Cristofari

I do highly reccomend the Barlas and the Mernissi, however the Zoya is rather sensationalistic.  Feel free to Cmail me about any of them.  I also do know a poster that is Muslim. 

Another note, I am not sure what college you go to, but is it possible for you to take a class on Women and Islam? 



Bound2One -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 10:18:17 PM)

quote:

on the issue of islam and war/peace, people are killed all the time in the name of religion, yet islam is the religion that always takes shit for it.


Well, yes, during the times we live in, Islam is the religion taking the shit for it, but not without reason.  Of course, Christianity is certainly not bloodless (hardly!) 

The OP said:  [well, that's part of the issue for me - it's not so much that i am interested in "changing" my beliefs as simply absorbing what i am learning into my current spiritual path]

I think it's wise to question beliefs, to learn new ones, to formulate your own, personal belief system so that you can incorporate it into your spiritual path.  Though I identify as a Catholic and a Christian, I am unique from the teachings of the church because I simply cannot accept that there is 'one true God'.  (there's that 'twue' again!)  How can I reasonably say that someone who lives their life following the tennents (sp?) of Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam and not following the teachings of Jesus are not living good lives?  I don't know what sort of being God is.  I do believe in a higher power of some sort.  And I believe that higher power is going to reward all those who live their lives in the best way possible.  I'm 42, and still searching and questioning, and I wish you luck on your journey - because that's what life truly is, no? 

As for the harassment ... I'll mention one quick thing because it stood out to me.  A dear friend of mine, who is somewhat prudish, works in a plant with a LOT of men.  She may be the only female there some days.  She's mentioned to me the different attitudes, language, atmosphere, etc. that is created by an almost male-only community.  I at first wrote it off because I thought 'gee, how bad could it be' and 'loosen up a bit!'.. but then after her sharing story, after story, month after month ... I can see how it would be very wearing to not have anyone around you during the workday showing restraint in their actions/words.  I can't believe I'm actually going to say this, because I abhor the term on principle, but political correctness can have its place in the world!




hisannabelle -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 10:39:50 PM)

greetings aylee,

i am a religion major, but i haven't yet been able to fit any classes on islam in my schedule. i'm hoping to take some over the summer or next year. to my knowledge, so far there hasn't been a class particularly on women and islam (at least during my time here), but i am currently taking women in africa, which does address muslim women's lives as there's a huge muslim presence especially in north and east africa. i'm really excited about it.

i will definitely check out the books that you mentioned. i saw the barlas book on amazon and it looks awesome :) thank you!

greetings bound2one,

for me, it was rebirth - i could not accept just living one lifetime. and from there i ended up moving away from christianity and i just kept moving. i do love christianity, though, particularly catholicism - i attended catholic school and church for most of my early life, and i still love going to mass. thank you for sharing your experiences :) i wish you luck on your journey as well. thank you also for sharing your friend's story - that exemplifies what i was trying to explain in terms of the fact that it doesn't seem like much, but it piles up and becomes hard to ignore when it happens so often and creates a different sort of environment. i hope that your friend's situation gets better.

respectfully,
annabelle.



Bound2One -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 11:56:08 PM)

Hey, Annabelle.  You're welcome.  I still love going to Mass - it's peaceful and soothing.  Tradition means a lot to me, for which I do thank the Catholic Church.  [;)]

My friend's situation is going to get better soon ... she got another job - a better one for her, so it's all good.  I just wanted to let you know you weren't alone. 



hisannabelle -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (1/18/2008 11:58:55 PM)

i'm so happy to hear that, and thank you again. it definitely helps.    



Etch -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (9/8/2009 6:09:07 PM)

This is a very old topic.

I'm 22 years old male from Egypt .. Muslim of course
i've just joined the community so if anyone still interested in islam just ask.



allthatjaz -> RE: muslim(ah) members? (9/9/2009 7:34:58 AM)

Muslim = submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.

I lived in an Arabic country for years and although I never converted to Islam, I did wear full hijab. I not only found it liberating but I saved a fortune on fashionable ‘must have’ clothes. I enjoyed the modesty of being covered and gained respect within the community I lived in.
Contrary to the western popular belief that women are forced by there family and men folk to wear hijab, it is (in most Muslim countries) the women that choose this route, just as it is still the choice of many of the older generation Catholic European women to cover the head.

I have done some reading on Sufism (Wisdom) but believe that the mysticism/Indian influence is not recognized in Islam. Sufism in itself is not a religion. I would of thought that if you are a practicing Buddhist then Sufism is a natural progression.



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