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RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 9:27:55 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

The experience ended with me nauseous, feeling guilty and in tears

Ack!! I can see how that was awful for you and am sorry it was so unpleasant for you.
Just curious. ....Did it have any impact on how you viewed your Master?
Were the tears all for your own discomfort or was part of it about removing your Master from his role, as you see him in your mind?

While my first thought is that it was all about my own discomfort I would have to say upon further thought that my ex Master's dominance and role certainly was a huge factor. I don't think however, that I was "stripping" him of his role as I didn't see him as any less dominant. What I felt was that I was being bad and disrespectful to his position, even though I had his full consent and approval. When I first began it felt silly and made me giggle a lot. It was awkward, kind of like wearing someone else's shoes. It quickly turned more emotionally serious and a huge lump developed in my throat and with each swat I immediately felt deep guilt and felt the need to apologize and make sure he was ok...and the swats were far less than heartfelt. It only took about 10 swats before I gave up entirely and was reduced to tears.

I say that who my ex Master was played a huge part in the outcome for me because having previously been a fighter I don't have a problem inflicting damaging blows against a competitor or someone who poses a threat to myself or someone that I care for. But that is not about dominance or submission, that is about competition or survival.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 41

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 9:34:14 AM

Gwynvyd

Posts: 4949
Status: offline

This has come up before a while back.. I am sure LA will come in with a link or two shortly. *smiles*

As for myself... I started out very young. I found a Dom male that I clicked well with ( he is on here actualy but it is not how we met. ) I was his submissive for some time. I grew into quite the pain slut.. and I loved every moment of it. There was one point where he bet me if I could get out of my restraints ( I was a regular Houdini ) he would "bottom" for me. And so it all began.

Since then I rarely bottom for others... and with my submissives I make them a promise that I would never ask of them what I would not do myself, or what I have not already done. It is as simple as that. I really enjoy the edgier play and sometimes they look at me horrified.. and I simply remind them that I too have been in thier shoes, and overcome the fear and questioning. Do I think all twue Dom/mes should start out as bottoms or subs? No.. certainly not. Some simply are not wired for it..
I know it has helped in giving me ideas, and having a good idea where my submissives heads are at a given point in play. Also as to what things may feel like to them. Each new toy I purchase, I use first so I can gauge how to use it on them. I know each of thier own thresholds.. so I can gauge it from myself.

and as someone posted Military trained folks are easier to train... they are used to taking orders... *oh I love that!* I have not seen one as a Dom/me... but as subs.. very nice. I also have a thing for police officers... *smiles* but then.. that just figures.. it is who I am used to hanging out with.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 42

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 9:34:27 AM

MistressVnus

Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

Thank you.
I have also found it a big plus for the other side as well.
My current slave is military and I don't have to do much worry about his attention to detail and having discipline to follow through with rules and rituals. The military eased my training of him in those respects FOR SURE. And, enabled us more time to head right into some of the other areas we both fancy.

But, he is deploying to Kuwait a the end of the month....*sigh* I will be forlorned. Again, another thread.

_____________________________

In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

(in reply to AFlyInYourWeb)

Post #: 43

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 9:42:11 AM

Gwynvyd

Posts: 4949
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

Thank you.
I have also found it a big plus for the other side as well.
My current slave is military and I don't have to do much worry about his attention to detail and having discipline to follow through with rules and rituals. The military eased my training of him in those respects FOR SURE. And, enabled us more time to head right into some of the other areas we both fancy.

But, he is deploying to Kuwait a the end of the month....*sigh* I will be forlorned. Again, another thread.

I am so sorry to hear that...

One of mine is away at law school currently.. but also miltary. I had him ship off to school *first* being that these times are so perilous. My heart goes out to you hun.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 44

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 9:49:05 AM

MistressVnus

Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

Thank you so much for your empathy.
I'm trying not to think about it too much, makes me too sad. Just trying to embrace the rest of the month with everything I have.

_____________________________

In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

(in reply to Gwynvyd)

Post #: 45

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 9:54:41 AM

MistressVnus

Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

quote:

end up being thrown out of the Domme's home

You cracked me up, as that is just about what happened to me!!! Literally!!
But, I have to admit that I got a LOT out of it, in many other ways. Learned a lot about myself, and about some techniques that I wouldn't have imagined. I have to say that I walked away from it more enlightened about several things, although things during the experience were not necessarily always pleasant. That, in and of itself, was edifying.

_____________________________

In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

(in reply to HalloweenWhite)

Post #: 46

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 10:01:54 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I've mentioned this in other threads. I was actually brought into the lifestyle as a Domme. It's just always been the way I was. If I would have come in as a submissive, I don't think I would have been in the lifestyle long. For a while, when I ran into the *you should start at the bottom* folks (not saying that's the intent of the thread), I did feel a bit odd about it. Not because I doubted who I was, but because it seemed that I was going about it backwards to the majority view.

After some time, I decided that it might be worthwhile to at least gain some experience in the matter, so I did some bottoming. This was also what led Me to My definition of the term. I can bottom. I can even hit bottom space. It just isn't in Me to submit. As others have said, it just doesn't process in the same way for Me. I much prefer the view from the Top anyway. <wink> I certainly wouldn't say it was a useless experience.

On a rare occasion, I'll still bottom if it's for a learning purpose. Though it's few and far between, I'll bottom for My husband, since he's learning to Top. I've never bottomed for a submissive of Mine, and I highly doubt I want to go there. To Me, it kind of messes with the power arrangement. I can count on one hand the number of people who I would bottom for today, unless I were doing it for charity.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 47

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 10:03:34 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I just caught up with this while writing My post. I do feel for you, as I know I'll be in that situation Myself at some point. Have to know it from the perspective of a Domme who's sub is military.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

Thank you so much for your empathy.
I'm trying not to think about it too much, makes me too sad. Just trying to embrace the rest of the month with everything I have.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 48

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 10:07:34 AM

AMaster

Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

I have always been a DOM. Submission is not in my nature.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 49

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 10:12:17 AM

MistressVnus

Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

quote:

To Me, it kind of messes with the power arrangement. I can count on one hand the number of people who I would bottom for today, unless I were doing it for charity.

Amen to that!! The messing up of the head space, that is. I have found it to be so, as well.
I "could" still bottom, maybe. I always did like the sensation play and bottom space. But, I can't even count on one hand anyone who I would bottom for at this particular point in time. The longer I've gone without it, the less it appeals to me.

_____________________________

In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 50

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 10:14:57 AM

MistressVnus

Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

quote:

I just caught up with this while writing My post. I do feel for you, as I know I'll be in that situation Myself at some point. Have to know it from the perspective of a Domme who's sub is military.

Thank you. I'm sure you're not looking forward to that day, as well. It just seems to be coming so fast, all of a sudden.

_____________________________

In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 51

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 10:51:35 AM

HalloweenWhite

Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

end up being thrown out of the Domme's home

You cracked me up, as that is just about what happened to me!!! Literally!!
But, I have to admit that I got a LOT out of it, in many other ways. Learned a lot about myself, and about some techniques that I wouldn't have imagined. I have to say that I walked away from it more enlightened about several things, although things during the experience were not necessarily always pleasant. That, in and of itself, was edifying.

Omg god, you got thrown out? thats not good lol. The thing with Me is I'd be too "flinchy" and "whiny" and I want to set limits-no "yes, Mistress, no Mistresss" and no going anywhere My nipples-they're waaaay too sensitive. lol. She'd get bored with me ! lol.

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 52

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 11:03:29 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

Which school are you from? Do you think a Dominant should start from the bottom and go through he steps that he/she will someday walk somenone else through?
Or, do you think it isn't necessary.

I think it can be useful but not nescessary.

quote:

If you are learning a new skill, do you have someone try it out on you so you can see "exactly" what it feels like?

No. Our pain therasholds are extremely different so seeing how it feels on him wouldn't tell him how it feels on me.

quote:

What about the "head games" that some wish to partake in. Should you have an excercise in that for yourself to comprehend the emotional/psychological intensity it can bring about? And, if so, how would you do that? Would you surrender yourself to another Dominant for a w/e of extended play to see how it can be, psychologically?

I highly doubt he would. Again, it can be a very useful tool but it's not one that works for us.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 53

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 11:16:16 AM

DreamyLadySnow

Posts: 359
Joined: 1/23/2005
Status: offline

I could bottom, because I love pain, but it would never show me what a non-masochist gets out of it, or struggles with.
I could serve someone and act as a submissive but it would never show me what an actual submissive feels when they perform service for their dominant.
The headspace is not the same. How we perceive things is different. What we are thinking is different.
I have no issues whatsoever with starting at the bottom then topping/domming but I'm not sure it would accomplish the same thing for everyone who did it. Therefore I'd never say everyone SHOULD do it.
Add to that the lack of good, solid dominants (at least in my city) and a lot of us who are tops/dominants would still be hanging around waiting for someone to show us the ropes, so to speak.

LS

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 54

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 12:13:11 PM

MistressVnus

Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

quote:

Add to that the lack of good, solid dominants (at least in my city) and a lot of us who are tops/dominants would still be hanging around waiting for someone to show us the ropes, so to speak.

That kind of makes me wonder if being required to have a mentor and go through certain paces to earn a title maybe wasn't such a bad idea after all. Sometimes I have to give tradition a second glance and wonder if it wasn't put in place for a reason, such as this, to begin with. That, perhaps, those who have walked before us may have already gone through this.
Just more food for thought.

_____________________________

In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

Post #: 55

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 12:20:39 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

Add to that the lack of good, solid dominants (at least in my city) and a lot of us who are tops/dominants would still be hanging around waiting for someone to show us the ropes, so to speak.

That kind of makes me wonder if being required to have a mentor and go through certain paces to earn a title maybe wasn't such a bad idea after all. Sometimes I have to give tradition a second glance and wonder if it wasn't put in place for a reason, such as this, to begin with. That, perhaps, those who have walked before us may have already gone through this.
Just more food for thought.

There might be a difference in that. There's a definite difference between having Mentors than starting at the bottom. I could never begin to thank all of the Masters that have taught Me lessons, playing styles, and so many other things.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 56

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 12:50:17 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Personally I don't believe it would. Being submissive, I step outside my comfort zone all the time - I believe that is something I have submitted to when I give myself 'over' (as it were ) to Darcy. Now, I can top - I have learnt to top - but when I do so I am still submissive. And I beleieve some submissive people have difficulty getting into the mindset that topping for a dominant is still a service and its one I personally can provide. It's no different from giving good head or being able to cook a good meal. When I do top, it doesn't make or cause me to understand where a dominants headspace would be whilst topping, because I am doing it from a submissive standpoint. I don't believe many people understand that.

People react and have differing reactions to everything. So when someone says to me, - say a kangeroo leather whip will feel great and they have experience of it I would say, fine - but that doesn't mean I will or that it will feel the same to me. Domination and submission would be the same - different dependant on who is practising it from an individual POV.

*edit because I did not answer the last point

I do believe there are people who have enough empathy or 'mirrorsense' to grasp the dynamic instinctively.

the.dark.

I relate to this to a large degree, only the male I have topped was not my Master, but someone my Master presented to me. I topped the male as my Master's slave (it was more a mental topping/dominating than physical), meaning in all I do I am submitting to my Master. The male liked that I am also a slave because he felt I would understand his feelings that much more.

He was right - it is helpful to me to be in a place of submission and relate to him, as well. But as for my Master, I happen to think he is an awesome Master, and he has never, nor will he ever, submit to another, or even be bottomed. That's just who he is.

So I think it helps, in some cases and not in others. I suppose it just depends on the unique characteristics of the individual. :)

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 57

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 1:19:32 PM

SayaNereida

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

If you are learning a new skill, do you have someone try it out on you so you can see "exactly" what it feels like?
Curious about other's thoughts and suggestions.

First, no matter how hard we try or want to, we can never know 'exactly' how something feels (physically, mentally or emotionally) to someone else. You can see how YOU would feel in that instance or circustance and while that may be good for some, it may actually be detrimental to others.

As for us, being new, we decided in the beginning to have a day of 'role reversal' just to 'see how the other half lives' so to speak and have done it 3 or 4 times.

We talked a great deal after, describing sensations, feelings, thoughts, etc. and while I may never feel what he feels, while topping, I do have a better understanding of it; from experience and his own words (as does he for bottoming)

I learned that while I will top for him on occassion, if he so desires, I am not entirely comfortable swinging the flogger(and such) but I do it well enough to satisfy his desire.

I do however enjoy the sensual torture, from the top(and of course the bottom), and will gladly do that any time he desires. <grins>

Walking a mile in anothers shoes may let you know how the shoes feel, but it may not give you the same blister and it doesn't tell you how they deal mentally, physically, or emotionally with it if you do get one.

Saya

< Message edited by SayaNereida -- 1/19/2008 1:22:43 PM >

_____________________________

Anais Nin: Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. ...

(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 58

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 1:37:13 PM

AFlyInYourWeb

Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

Thank you.
I have also found it a big plus for the other side as well.
My current slave is military and I don't have to do much worry about his attention to detail and having discipline to follow through with rules and rituals. The military eased my training of him in those respects FOR SURE. And, enabled us more time to head right into some of the other areas we both fancy.

But, he is deploying to Kuwait a the end of the month....*sigh* I will be forlorned. Again, another thread.

If you would, please convey to your slave my sincere "thank you" for his service to our country, and my hope that he has a safe return home.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MistressVnus)

Post #: 59

RE: From the bottom up - 1/19/2008 2:37:34 PM

MistressVnus

Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

I know I can speak for him, as well, when I say thank you so much for your thoughts and well-wishes. I will be having him at my feet most of this coming week and am going to be sure to have him read these posts.

_____________________________

In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

(in reply to AFlyInYourWeb)

Post #: 60

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