RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore?

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CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:25:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hisannabelle i find it offensive because i feel like my ability to choose is being undermined by saying that it's acceptable if i was forced into it, but unacceptable if i wasn't. perhaps it's simply my lack of ability to wrap my head around the idea that there's something wrong with choosing to consent to have intercourse. which is not an idea that you're alone in expressing, and it's your personal belief, i just don't get it. yes, it's still offensive, because i think it's an extremely naive and upsetting thing to say about rape. it's patronizing. it feels like i'm being patted on the head and told i'm more acceptable as a potential partner because i was forced into it. yes, i do think it's important that we remember the distinction between rape and consensual sex, and that rape is NOT consensual, but at the same time, as someone who has had multiple consensual partners and has been violently gang-raped, for me personally, i find that line of reasoning fairly patronizing and upsetting, despite the fact that i'm sure it makes a lot of sense to a lot of people and i'm sure it is meant with the utmost respect. it just offends me on a very deep level nonetheless. I'm not interested in a partner who would share her sexuality with others easily. How it is damaging to my interests if a potential partner was a rape victim? Does that say anything about her sexuality? Or do you think I should interpret her rape as saying something about her? That she's somehow more slutly than a girl who wasn't raped? Or, more to the point.. are you telling me I should consider women who are raped to be sluts? I honestly feel that the idea you're pitching is far more hurtful to a rape victim.. although, I suppose you're in a position to help me understand my error if I should be wrong.

weneedyourhelp -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:26:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord would strike me as distasteful. Your whole mannerism strikes me as distasteful.

hisannabelle -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:27:05 AM)
i know what it feels like to have that choice taken away from me, so i suppose all i'm asking for is some respect for what women choose to do with their bodies, which you are not showing. i'm not pitching an idea, i don't give a flying fuck about your interests, and i'm not trying to debate here, i am just trying to express an extremely intense emotional reaction, as someone who has lived through victimization, to an extremely upsetting point of view for me. all i am suggesting is that maybe you should consider how your views on this subject will make potential partners who are also rape survivors feel. i'm also bowing out of this particular sub-discussion as i don't feel comfortable participating and being forced into a debate that will serve no purpose.

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:30:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Learn this: Rape is not sex. Period. If you consider sex to be something romantic.. something that's a consentual act, or an expression of love, or even of lust.. then, yes. However, I'm a bit less romantic and a bit more empiracle. The physical act of sex is sex in my dictionary.. it's just not "making love", or the such. I'm simply not one to redefine words to be politically correct; things are what they are, and I would feel wretched to willingly fail to acknowledge this. Still, I can't help but feel like you're putting words into my mouth. I happened to mention that rape doesn't count as sex.. yet you're so offended by the very notion that this was even mentioned that you're assaulting it rather indignately. I'm unsure as to why this strikes such emotion?

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:33:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: weneedyourhelp Your whole mannerism strikes me as distasteful. I think I'll need regular reminders that you're just trying to talk, that you don't have a malicious intent. Part of me feels a bit immature for even having responded to this, though. =/

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:40:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hisannabelle i know what it feels like to have that choice taken away from me, so i suppose all i'm asking for is some respect for what women choose to do with their bodies, which you are not showing. i'm not pitching an idea, i don't give a flying fuck about your interests, and i'm not trying to debate here, i am just trying to express an extremely intense emotional reaction, as someone who has lived through victimization, to an extremely upsetting point of view for me. all i am suggesting is that maybe you should consider how your views on this subject will make potential partners who are also rape survivors feel. i'm also bowing out of this particular sub-discussion as i don't feel comfortable participating and being forced into a debate that will serve no purpose. I can't even begin to imagine why you want me to consider rape the same way I consider sex. Hell, celticlord's a bit upset at me for even off-handedly suggesting that the two have some sort of vague similarity. You two are making opposite points.. However, I'll respect that this is an emotional issue for you and your bow out. I hope the evening goes well for you; if anything has been offensive to you, I'm sorry, and I meant nothing against you nor your past.

weneedyourhelp -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:45:23 AM)
If I was intending to be malicious I may have said something to the effect that you are an idiot with a dictionary, and a thesaurus. But I simply stated my opinion, which I believe I am still entitled to do. Unless you have some semantical argument to that as well.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:45:44 AM)
Let me get this straight. CL, you're saying the only way it would be all right with you for a woman to have had sex with someone else before she met you...is if she was raped? Oooooooooooookay. Stick to your guns. But you can't be too surprised that you're not making many friends in this discussion.

laurell3 -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:45:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: hisannabelle quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Every woman who would be my slave starts out as a virgin, regardless of how many kids she has or how many penises have penetrated her in the past. I sort of consider it that way with rapes. Sadly, a lot of girls I've known have been raped. Some of them, several times over a period of time by the same person. So those never count against a person. Not that.. it's attractive to consider, by any means, just.. it doesn't seem right to hold that against someone. wow, i do believe that might be one of the most naive and upsetting things i have heard on this subject, as a rape survivor (and a lot of people say a lot of naive and upsetting, however well meant, things about rape). because i was forcibly raped and beaten against my will, it's okay, but if i chose to do it with different people before i chose to do it with you, it's not okay? it just feels extremely patronizing, and while i can understand the intention, it's the most backward reasoning i've heard recently. if i'm a victim, i'm not damaged goods, but if i wanted it to happen, i am. (if i've experienced both, what does that make me? semi-acceptable? mediocre? /sarcastic musing.) As a rape victim, you find your rape not being considered as an instance of consenting to sexual intercourse offensive? Perhaps I'll explain, as you may be misunderstanding. I'm not interested in a girl that's easy, that gives her sexuality out quickly. Being raped doesn't mean that she gave out her sexuality.. it means it was taken.. which doesn't speak against the aspect of her character which would affect my sexual attraction towards her. This explained, is it still offensive? If so, how? Being raped may very well mean she acts out in that manner though CL and it's not uncommon. However, it's not a secret that CL is somewhat idealistic in what he seeks and has a rather naive viewpoint about life that is not always presented well. However, he's also not usually totally close-minded, self-righteous or cruel, just a bit different (we all are) so I would suggest that you guys accept that he's being honest about what he seeks and accept that you think differently. I do not believe he is attempting to be rude to rape victims, quite the contrary. He's saying if someone was raped he doesn't consider that against them when he looks at the number of people they have been with. Again in my not so humble opinion, it's idealistic even probably foolish to attach a specific number to a person, but it's his opinion. He's not criticising rape victims, he's just being CL. To the OP: I don't believe sexual partners means anything about a person or is paticularly relevant to current relationships as long as they can be monogamous if required. Everyone makes mistakes or goes through phases in life, people do different things. I'd be more concerned about other behaviors than sexual history personally. Throwing stones based on sexual history on a bdsm forum seems silly to me, and numbers are much less important than the person.

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:48:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Let me get this straight. CL, you're saying the only way it would be all right with you for a woman to have had sex with someone else before she met you...is if she was raped? Oooooooooooookay. Stick to your guns. But you can't be too surprised that you're not making many friends in this discussion. Yup. I'm not attracted to slutty girls, but being raped doesn't make a girl slutty. It's okay. It's how I feel; if someone dislikes me for my lack of attraction towards slutty girls, or my feeling that rape doesn't make a girl slutty, I'm okay with that.

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:50:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: weneedyourhelp If I was intending to be malicious I may have said something to the effect that you are an idiot with a dictionary, and a thesaurus. But I simply stated my opinion, which I believe I am still entitled to do. Unless you have some semantical argument to that as well. Ah. I appreciate your restraint, then. It speaks to your character.

laurell3 -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:54:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Let me get this straight. CL, you're saying the only way it would be all right with you for a woman to have had sex with someone else before she met you...is if she was raped? Oooooooooooookay. Stick to your guns. But you can't be too surprised that you're not making many friends in this discussion. Yup. I'm not attracted to slutty girls, but being raped doesn't make a girl slutty. It's okay. It's how I feel; if someone dislikes me for my lack of attraction towards slutty girls, or my feeling that rape doesn't make a girl slutty, I'm okay with that. Yes CL being raped can actually result in promiscious behavior. I was a virgin when I was raped by a relative. I had been dating my bf for a year and refused to give it up. Once I was raped, hell what was the point? I was damaged goods anyway or that was my thought process at the time it took me quite a few years and therapy to realize I could let it go. Was I a "slut"? Sure. Does that make you think less of me? Honestly if it does you are really missing the point, I'm not a number I'm a human being. I have faith you'll get there someday CL, at least you struggle with your rigid idealism and try to understand what people are saying. That same thing can't be said of everyone here.

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:55:25 AM)
I appreciate the empathizing, laurell3. I'm not sure if I'm really being naive. I appreciate the good will.. if you could help me out, either on here or on the other side.. how my viewpoint might be a bit naive, I'd appreciate it. (I'd feel sort of weird walking away without having some sort of idea about it.)

laurell3 -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:57:23 AM)
You have to look at why a thing happened sometimes CL not just that it did. We're all flawed, we all make mistakes, you will too, many of them. Hopefully you will learn and grow from them. I was very hurt and very confused for many years. It took quite awhile for me to stop making mistakes and value myself. However a caveat here, I still don't think being sexually active is a lack of value of one's self necessarily. In my case that that time it was. In my life now, I am much more paticular, but I remain sexually active because my standards say it's acceptable for me. That I think is what I believe we should look for in people, not numbers. That is why I believe a mystical number approach is naive.

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 12:59:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Yes CL being raped can actually result in promiscious behavior. I was a virgin when I was raped by a relative. I had been dating my bf for a year and refused to give it up. Once I was raped, hell what was the point? I was damaged goods anyway or that was my thought process at the time it took me quite a few years and therapy to realize I could let it go. Was I a "slut"? Sure. Does that make you think less of me? Honestly if it does you are really missing the point, I'm not a number I'm a human being. I have faith you'll get there someday CL, at least you struggle with your rigid idealism and try to understand what people are saying. That same thing can't be said of everyone here. Thanks; I appreciate it. I'd ask you hold on a moment before counting my points or position as naive and passing them off, though. I do believe I see a point where people are misunderstanding me. I think people are believing that I'm saying that, if a girl is raped, then she can't be a slut; that's not my point, though. I mean that, if a girl is raped, that particular intercourse doesn't necessarily mean she's a slut. However, if due to it, she goes and consentually sleeps with ten guys per week for the next couple of years, then certainly, she'd be quite the slut. :P Sluts can be raped, too.. I get that. I'm just saying that being raped doesn't necessarily make someone a slut, and that the particular rape isn't something I count against someone. And, of course, there's more to consider than just a number. But wouldn't it be sort of silly to fail to consider everything.. to include the number?

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 1:01:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 You have to look at why a thing happened sometimes CL not just that it did. We're all flawed, we all make mistakes, you will too, many of them. Hopefully you will learn and grow from them. I was very hurt and very confused for many years. It took quite awhile for me to stop making mistakes and value myself. However a caveat here, I still don't think being sexually active is a lack of value of one's self necessarily. In my case that that time it was. In my life now, I am much more paticular, but I remain sexually active because my standards say it's acceptable for me. That I think is what I believe we should look for in people, not numbers. That is why I believe a mystical number approach is naive. I believe I've failed to represent my position properly. Regardless.. would you mind if I messaged you on the other side? It's not directly related to this, but I think there's something I'd like to ask you about.

laurell3 -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 1:02:34 AM)
Honestly CL I've never had anyone insist I give them a number and I never would. It's totally missing the point in my opinion and it's not someone I would have much interest in. Besides, I don't know what the hell it is anyway [;)] . Counting seems rather 8th gradish to me, but then again, I'm not all that young anymore and getting laid now is "lucky" not sluttish by even the majority of vanilla standards I encounter. Edited to add: Yes of course you can email me.

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 1:07:17 AM)
Ah, that's true. But I've been referring moreso to the metaphorical number as opposed to the literal one. For me, it's been about the larger issue.. of "Are you attracted to slutty girls?", which the thread struck me as being about.. so, well, no, I'm not.. so the "number" was just about that 'n such. Good deal; I'll drop you a line. :P

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 1:11:02 AM)
In a vague attempt to keep things on track: If a woman/man has slept with multiple partners then there are 3 questions I would have to ask: 1) Are they STD free? 2) are they sane? 3) Are they a serial killer? though, come to think of it, I would ask 2&3 in any case, just makes sense to know those things beforehand

CuriousLord -> RE: Do you care if your slave is a whore? (1/20/2008 1:16:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr 2) are they sane? You should run if they say "yes". Something from Psycology class about the craziest people being the ones who think they're sane. :P

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