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ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Just a few comments based on what people have said. I hope these come across gracefully and respectfully.

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AtlantaMistress:
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is easy, but I know I have gotten much better with time of weaning out the bad from the good, the real from the wanna be's, and rather than let someone like this guy you write about get me down, I would put him in his place, let him know it is HIS LOSS, and get more power totally believing that!

Two thoughts.

1.) The whole issue of "real" versus "unreal or wanna' be" seems a waste of effort. Everyone is real. The question is whether partners have compatible desires and goals, and whether they are interested in sharing these with one another. This harkens back to a thread I posted quite a while ago (and whose sentiments I have echoed on Collar Me many times). In my opinion, the number one criteria for a BDSM partner is that I like that partner as person in general. If you don't like someone, why would you want to spend time with them in any capacity? This simple filtering mechanism works wonders and it often avoids worrying about the kinky stuff. Because, for the same reason, why worry about the kinky stuff if the foundation isn't there? When the foundation isn't there, the BDSM stuff doesn't matter.

2.) About "putting the sub in his place", I honestly don't think this is a good idea. I'd suggest leaving the guy alone and moving on. No matter who you are in the equation, negative karma takes something out of the giver and the receiver. If you think constructive feedback may be helpful and well received, hmmm... I might make the effort in this case. But, I think most of us kinksters would agree that usually these cases involve a fundamental breakdown in communication. Thus, no matter how well intended, in such circumstances feedback is usually received poorly. This is why I say, just move on. The submissive in Botanical's case most certainly has some lessons to learn, but I don't think he is going to learn them from her. I'm not saying one should allow people to walk all over you, but the old adage "pick you battles wisely" holds true here.

Elan.

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AtlantaMistress:

As for "putting him in his place" I am all about positive energy and karma (read journal) and it does not have to be negative at all if someone disrespects you in some way to point it out, without being nasty. In this type of situation I always wish people the best of luck with what they are trying to find - its just not me. However, I think the fact that OP is questioning whether she expects too much shows she is not thinking enough of herself, and it is often through making it clear to someone that you will not settle for anything less than the utmost respect that boosts one's own self confidence.

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ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna

If you have agreed to a session,unless the sub has stated that it would be a money problem,he(or she) wouldnt even have to ask...

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss

Do I expect too much? Am I getting too thin skinned? Am I doing something wrong? It just makes me wonder...

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss

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AtlantaMistress:

As for "putting him in his place" I am all about positive energy and karma (read journal) and it does not have to be negative at all if someone disrespects you in some way to point it out, without being nasty. In this type of situation I always wish people the best of luck with what they are trying to find - its just not me. However, I think the fact that OP is questioning whether she expects too much shows she is not thinking enough of herself, and it is often through making it clear to someone that you will not settle for anything less than the utmost respect that boosts one's own self confidence.

Just as a footnote..... after receiving the first message with the insults and the mention of the Femdom party he went to, I sent a very nice email saying that I was happy he found someone willing to give him what he wants, wished him the best of luck with his new Friends, and said that I would continue looking for someone who was more local and compatible with me. Even though I was not at all nasty, and didn't even point out his rudeness... it was, after all, exactly how he meant to be, so I saw no point in acknowledging it.... I received another insulting email, nastier than the others. At that point, I erased all received and sent messages between us from my email box and blocked him.

Yes, I was questioning myself and I think it's only human that most of us do at some point when we get discouraged. I have just recently been spending time here at the forums and have read some really good posts, which is why I decided to ask my question here. Sometimes it's good to get input from those who aren't the ones closest to us, and that's exactly what I received. Thanks again!

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I think it was a mistake to agree to meet this guy.  You didn't have good feelings about your first meeting and then, after negotiating a more quid pro quo arrangement ("you pay and I'll show you the metal"), the submissive failed to live up to his part of the agreement.

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I'm not saying one should allow people to walk all over themselves, but the old adage 'pick your battles wisely' holds true here.

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ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

MissAstrid,

--- It's all about having enough respect for yourself
--- to say, no, this isn't for me.  That sub is commodifying
--- what you do.  He's reducing your will to empower his
--- own.  And nothing about that is acceptable.

Yes.  Agreed.

--- I absolutely DESPISE when a sub tells me about
--- another Domme and what she does to throw it in
--- my face, such as "Well, Mistress So-and-So lets
--- me do this" or "Mistress So-and-So doesn't require
--- that I do that."  It's UNBELIEVABLE to me.  Like
--- some kind of attempt at starting a cat fight, as if
--- Dommes want to one-up each other so much that
--- they compete through hearsay.  It's one of the
--- tackiest things a sub can do, IMO.

This isn't in the nature of the submissives I know personally, but it is still good to read your thoughts on the subject.  Even if unintended, I can see how one might fall into this trap while describing past experiences.  And yes, I agree wholeheartedly that there are people who intentionally do as you've described.  In this context, that kind of behavior is very tacky indeed.

Elan.

In the OP's post, that clearly wasn't the case, but at times, I've been asked questions in which there was no other way to adequately answer them other than to reference a prior relationship in which I'd been involved.  That said, I'd never volunteer it in the manner in which the OP's ill mannered lunch date offerred his unsolicited comments.

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss

I make it very clear to potential subs that I do not play upon meeting. To me, bdsm activities are an extension of a D/s relationship, which takes time to build. Also, I do not invite them into my home until a relationship has really begun. Seeing as the base relationship is between myself and a male sub, I see no reason and have no desire to bring them into my home or introduce them to my Dom partner or our femslave until I know they're going to stick around. I also make it clear in the beginning that they will be responsible for providing 'play space' whether it be in their own home, or in a nearby hotel. I don't play casually and I don't play in public. I've tried the local munch, and while I met a few nice people, it just really wasn't me.

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss
Anyway... I recently met a sub for lunch and had a very nice time. One thing he kept mentioning was that he had met a few Dommes, and they either disappeared after meeting or "couldn't even spank a man right" (his words). My schedule ended up changing after arranging a second meeting, and I was accused of doing the same as "all the others." Call it pride or whatever, but I decided that even though it went against my grain, I would agree to give him his fantasy session... provided he drove down here (a little over an hour drive) and got a hotel room.... which he immediately agreed to. Then, two days before the meet, I get an email saying how much it costs for his gas, and then to have to get a room, was just too much... and he wanted me to drive to him... there's even a Dairy Queen next to the place where he was going to get a room! woohoo! .... Anyway, I told him that I was doing this for him, giving him his fantasy, and if he wanted it he had to come and get it... take it or leave it...... and I get a reply saying that I only want people to spend money on me, I obviously have no idea what I'm doing if I was "doing it for him", and I certainly wouldn't have any idea what to do with him anyway..... and he let me know that "oh, btw, he had gone to a Femdom party where they had food and drinks, and didn't make him spend any money and they caned him so he was sore for a week."

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss
Yes, I know they were spiteful little insults... but I wonder... do I expect too much, to want an actual relationship where I'm not expected to "perform" as a Domme as soon as I meet someone? To me, his "offer" was no better than being told as a nilla woman that after spending $15 on lunch with me a few weeks ago, it just cost too much money for him to come to me, so I was supposed to drive to him and fuck him the way he wanted it... and then get rewarded with an ice cream cone afterwards.

Do I expect too much? Am I getting too thin skinned? Am I doing something wrong? It just makes me wonder...

Thank you in advance for any input,
~BotanicalMiss~

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss

First, let me say that I know there are people who have been here a lot longer than I have who are still looking, and I'm not nearly ready to give up, but I'm looking for some advice.. maybe validation?... perhaps just looking to see if there are others out there going through the same things I am.

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ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

There's nothing wrong with playing with a sub the first time you meet him if that is how fantastic the chemistry is between you.  Obviously it was not......

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In my experience, even with good screening, a Mistress needs to meet about 9 frogs to find her kinky prince.  That means enduring 9 tedious lunches with Not-Quite-Rights (NQRs).   It does take about 3 - 6 months, if you take the time to get it right.  Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

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Which brings me to the NQRs.  Yes they want you.  Yes, its nice to be wanted.  But please don't feel obliged to hand out any consolation prizes to NQRs.   Never let a NQR guilt or manipulate you into playing with him (which I bet you won't from now on!)

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BDSM is far to intimate to do with creepy guys you don't really like in motel rooms.  You will feel yucky afterwards.

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PS: you might strike gold next time and not have to endure any more awkward encounters with NQRs.  I really hope so, but be prepared to be patient anyway

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ORIGINAL: SubmissiveAK

When I meet someone, say for lunch, I dont find it unreasonable to be expected to pay for lunch... as that's what's expected in the vanilla world when a man meets a woman. Its nothing to do with old ideas on women or anything, its just being polite. If she were to demand I take her to the fanciest place for dinner, bring flowers, pay tribute, hire a limo just for the courtesy of meeting her... I would be put off a bit!

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss


It's nice to hear someone say this. Yes, I do expect to be treated like a nilla woman in some aspects. I am looking for a relationship and expect things to be treated that way. If I was nilla, would they pick up the lunch tab? Of course. As far as where we have lunch, if I'm unsure of the man's financial status I choose an inexpensive family restaurant (lunch for 2 for about $15 including tip); if he has made it clear that he is quite comfortable financially, then I shoot for Applebee's or someplace similar which still certainly is not the fanciest place in town.

Within a relationship, expenses are shared. And I'm actually pretty low maintenance in that way... I tend to prefer activities that don't cost much money, if anything at all. And I'm one hell of a bargain shopper, whether it's my money being spent or someone else's... especially if it's someone else's. It may not be a "goddess" like attitude, but I've even been known to break off relationships with nilla men if they made me feel like they were trying to buy my affection. Yes, there are certain things I expect men to pay for (sub or not), but having someone insist on paying for everything actually makes me uncomfortable... even if I know they have the means to do so. *shrugs* That's just me.

At a first meet such as this, I think it's more appropriate to expect to go "Dutch", but that's just my opinion.  If the sub offers to pay for everything, than fine, but as you said it really depends on the location & restaurant that is chosen.  I always appreciate it when the Domme offers to pay her half of the meal so I don't feel as though I'm a meal ticket and that's it's about getting to know each other and not just about what she can get from me.